The concern there is still the time it takes to craft something. That he made a mistake doesn't change anything there.
Why Does Everyone Care So Much About Expense
- Thread starter SatanicSanta
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The concern there is still the time it takes to craft something. That he made a mistake doesn't change anything there.
I don't think you will find a forum post in this regaurd.
But from my limited pool of freinds I find that yeah many (myself inculded) tend to push IC2/GT stuff off to later in game due to the need for machine chains for the more advance stuff.
But things like a compressor for blocks is not anything we worry about. It more the mutli-step for things like tintium and the such we hold off on until later.
To me it's not about material expense, but now much time it takes to get (and how interesting the process is). If it's long and boring then it's probably not worth doing. If it's long but stays interesting or can be easily automated so I don't have to waste my own time on it, then it's okay.
Example: Mekanism Ultimate Energy Cubes aren't super expensive, but they're annoying to make because NEI's shift+questionmarkbutton doesn't seem to like unstackable energy tablets. But with AE they can be autocrafted (assuming it doesn't derp and make too many. again.)
Example: Mekanism Ultimate Energy Cubes aren't super expensive, but they're annoying to make because NEI's shift+questionmarkbutton doesn't seem to like unstackable energy tablets. But with AE they can be autocrafted (assuming it doesn't derp and make too many. again.)
A lot of people don't use Mystcraft, myself included. Reading that eleven diamonds isn't much is making me want to try it now...
But more to the point, I find that it takes hours running through mines to just find my first diamonds. Seeing that they are now required for an LV item (that performs a function most other mods have at starter level) sets a serious first impression that Gregtech is massively expensive. It isn't helped when you discover that a lot of machines require several lower-tiered ones (two compressors for a plate bender, which replaces the rolling machine at more than twice the cost) and the multiblock structures cost entire stacks of ingots.
I really don't care about losing the ability to smash diamonds into a block with a hammer and pliers, but the sheer cost of everything feels more like padding and less like actual progress. At least in my own opinion, that's why gregtech turns away a lot of people.
But more to the point, I find that it takes hours running through mines to just find my first diamonds. Seeing that they are now required for an LV item (that performs a function most other mods have at starter level) sets a serious first impression that Gregtech is massively expensive. It isn't helped when you discover that a lot of machines require several lower-tiered ones (two compressors for a plate bender, which replaces the rolling machine at more than twice the cost) and the multiblock structures cost entire stacks of ingots.
I really don't care about losing the ability to smash diamonds into a block with a hammer and pliers, but the sheer cost of everything feels more like padding and less like actual progress. At least in my own opinion, that's why gregtech turns away a lot of people.
I totally agree with you, but, in my experience, I finish the game way too quickly without GregTech. Also, how do you spend hours finding your first diamonds? There are 1-5 in every chunk.
Huh? How does one finish the game??
Well some players think the "I built the last thing I'm done." sort of play style.
It is just how they play.
most of my "too expensive" costs is around GT and the forestry bronze. It's annoying when you have to have 3 stacks of copper and 1 of tin just to make 2 forestry machines. If my next project will take more than 1 IC2/GT machine to build, it gets put on the back burner, and I do something else for a while. I will eventually get the machines needed built. I normally have the mats to make the machines, but there are just so many steps involved in making them, that it becomes too much of a hassle. I wait until I have AE, and set it up to craft the machines for me. Once there, I don't really care how expensive the machine is as I don't have to mess with a crafting table to build it. I just request one (or several), and it shows up like magic! 
That about sums up the whole Gregtech controversy from start to finish. Reading through your biased reproduction of your conversation, you claim at some point you recited to the dismayed player the material components for the machines in question from memory. And that's fine. It's not normal, it's not something to brag about, but it's fine because I don't think it's appropriate to be critical of someone for knowing something. But what you need to realize is that unless you're cherry-picking an extremely narrow element of the mod pack and focusing on it exclusively, there are hundreds of recipes requiring dozens of different kinds of materials and there's a reason most experienced players are still happy to have NEI. Because we forget recipes. And after a while a lot of us stop even trying to commit new recipes to memory. Because memorizing recipes requires far too much commitment to a mundane element, and we'd rather devote our time in the game to other pursuits.
I can already see the replies forming. "We weren't talking about how he didn't know the recipe, we're talking about how he found GT recipes to be outrageous." I know. And the point is that you need to realize where you fit in the spectrum of gamers from casual to dedicated. And you need to realize that for all but the dedicated players, "expense" translates to time, not whether or not there is a limit on supply. So you, as a dedicated player, say you don't mind the "expense" because you invest large amounts of time in the game, which functionally makes the expense seem less. And when you've got nothing else to grind for, you get bored.
I make giant creeper robots. The resources are easy enough to come by. Even for a really big creeper robot. The entertainment value comes from the design and implementation, not the grind. I control the design and implementation. That's why I don't get bored. When you let someone like Greg define the grind for you, it's no wonder you get bored. He's done all the thinking and left you with all the grinding. And that's why Gregtech blows.
If you don't branch-mine or quarry, something that only occurs one to five times per chunk is pretty rare. If you don't tunnel down right away, it can be a while.
((That's actually my biggest concern. I don't mind complex recipes, and I understand why the consumption rates occur as they do. But quarrying twenty chunks is neither a trivial process, nor one that leaves the landscape unmarred.))
That's more of a choice than a limitation. If you don't want to dig to diamond levels right away, that's totally fine. It's not necessarily an arduous task, however.
It must be poor luck, I can go mining for an hour and come back with a half stack if not more, diamonds.[DOUBLEPOST=1371611587][/DOUBLEPOST]
I never said if I memorized the recipe or not. I didn't. I had NEI open. I have however memorized the recipe for an Electronic Circuit and Machine Block since I make tons and tons and tons of them. I wasn't trying to be biased, the admin was actually yelling at us.
What I mean by getting bored; I get bored of the biome/world I am living in, I get bored of my storage system, I get bored of TE machines, I get bored of the colors of my base, I get bored of various things. I have only used GT in the world I'm currently playing on, and I have yet to get bored. I love GregTech. I used TE machines for a while in MindCrack, I used IC2 and TE machines in DW20, and I used IC2 machines in Tekkit. I have gotten bored of Macerators, Pulverizers, Electric Furnaces, and Powered Furnaces. I like that the Industrial Grinder takes forever to make. I like taking a long time making one machine, I find it relaxing (until it explodes XD). You can hate GT, I don't give a shit. I hated the recipes too until I actually used the mod.
Now, can we change the subject from No GT vs. GT back to why people refuses to make things because they are expensive?
how can you judge if item is expensive or not with it not having price tag? i`d understand such discussion in era of EE2 when EMC was around, but now?
Hmmm... I get what you are saying. But, lots of diamonds would be counted as expensive, lots of any materials that are relatively hard to come by can be considered expensive.
Or- you can look back at EE2 and see the EMC value of each thing, if it is high than it is expensive. If you run Tekkit all of the ores (besides Ferrous, Iridium, Emerald, Xychorium, and all ThaumCraft stones) are also in FTB. Look at the EMC value and see what you would consider expensive.
i`d count a lot of diamonds as expensive if i could use em in every recipe i.e. EMC was still around. materials that are "hard to come by" or with "high time requirements" are better words to describe what you`re trying to discuss here, i think.
for me, long time waiting to get an item that is on my to do list that has boring process behind, is not the thing i`d go for(hello matter fab)
iridium actually had an EMC price, but not an actually value, via uu-matter to glowstone conversion
That's what we've been discussing, but you've been too busy missing the point.
I don't quite understand your question. It's like asking "Why do people refuse to buy jewelry because it's expensive?" or "Why do people refuse to buy cars because they're expensive?" Or "Why do people refuse to buy beachfront property because it's expensive?"
The answer is already there in the question: because it's expensive! And people avoid expensive stuff because they'd rather use their money (or resources, or time) on something they feel is more worthwhile (or more fun, or whatever).