What would YOU change about BuildCraft?

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asiekierka

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Just watched DW20's episode today, and I was reminded of the mining well. Obviously, he's using a bunch of cross-mod interactions to make it ridiculous, but one wonders: in a world with just Buildcraft, what's the point of the mining well? Does anyone use it, or, more likely, is it just a crafting component for a pump?
I guess that'd be on the list of things I might consider changing.

I use the mining well often as an early-game quarry, in fact, as it is much cheaper than one. I also met people who used it to make quick mining shafts.
 

KingTriaxx

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Especially when combined with say the Open Blocks Rope Ladder. Punch hole, drop ladder.

And nothing else opens a hole for the MFR drill quite like it. It's also useful in mining out Twilight Forest hollow hills. Find a vein at the bottom, then punch through it from the top with a mining well.
 

Azzanine

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Just watched DW20's episode today, and I was reminded of the mining well. Obviously, he's using a bunch of cross-mod interactions to make it ridiculous, but one wonders: in a world with just Buildcraft, what's the point of the mining well? Does anyone use it, or, more likely, is it just a crafting component for a pump?
I guess that'd be on the list of things I might consider changing.
The Mining Well is a pretty old block man, it's a relic of a time where the devs where more "see what we can do" then "lets make something balanced/useful".
It was made in a time where the community followed a different balance paradigm, maybe a fast way of boring a hole to bedrock was considered super useful. Maybe people where cool with setting it up and manually setting it back up a block in one direction and doing it again.

When you say change, what do you mean? You mentioned the mod interaction and DW20's miner. That would be a good reason NOT to change it.
 

KingTriaxx

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Actually, if you were able to say stack a pump on top of a mining well, and then pump up fluids that way. Such as oil deposits, where the spout is so low or the terrain so rough that finding the spout isn't easy. So you set those up above the location and bore down into the oil pocket itself. The MW is already driving pipe down, it shouldn't be impossible to also pull fluids.
 
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asiekierka

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Actually, if you were able to say stack a pump on top of a mining well, and then pump up fluids that way. Such as oil deposits, where the spout is so low or the terrain so rough that finding the spout isn't easy. So you set those up above the location and bore down into the oil pocket itself. The MW is already driving pipe down, it shouldn't be impossible to also pull fluids.
The pump should already drive itself down, IIRC
 

KingTriaxx

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It does, but it's pretty slow. And it can't punch holes on it's own, so you have to set down the Mining Well, drill the hole, then knock out the Mining Well, and hope it doesn't drop down the hole. Then place down the Pump, and wait while it spends something like ten or twelve seconds a block descending.
 

SlightlyVisible

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Why are laser powered furnaces being added? That seems like a task a direct RF connection would handle and not a laser. Lasers are used in industry for tasks such as cutting, or detecting quick changes that cameras can't record. With all due respect, this is unnecessary feature creep.
 

rouge_bare

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Why are laser powered furnaces being added? That seems like a task a direct RF connection would handle and not a laser. Lasers are used in industry for tasks such as cutting, or detecting quick changes that cameras can't record. With all due respect, this is unnecessary feature creep.
What's the point of adding yet another plug-into-the-cable machine, which would likely end up being a very close copy of the Redstone Furnace from Thermal Expansion. It also makes it so there a way to "upgrade" the machine. (Add more lasers). To me it doesn't seem too out of scope, imagining a laser "cooking" something.
 

KingTriaxx

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Lasers are cool?

More seriously, it's got two advantages. First, with the lasers being separated from the block, you're not taking up a side with the power connection. So you can have multiple input pipes on the block. Second, as above, speed. One laser might be relatively slow, but a dozen lasers? Or more? And like the assembly table, you can put multiples in an area and have the lasers power them sequentially. True, it might be a little slower than a bunch of vanilla furnaces, but the individual operations could be faster.
 

SlightlyVisible

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What's the point of adding yet another plug-into-the-cable machine, which would likely end up being a very close copy of the Redstone Furnace from Thermal Expansion. It also makes it so there a way to "upgrade" the machine. (Add more lasers). To me it doesn't seem too out of scope, imagining a laser "cooking" something.

What's the point of adding yet another furnace PERIOD. Build-craft never, ever, just took popular features from another mod such as Industrial Craft, or Thermal Expansion, and needly implemented them. It makes no sense technically to power a furnace with a laser, and it makes no sense game design wise given that most user don't just play with build-craft. I'm all for further development of the laser, but only if it has a reasonable purpose and isn't done simply to clone modded minecrafts most replicated feature.
 
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ShneekeyTheLost

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Buildcraft's problem is that most of its features are no longer necessary. It used to be the logistical infrastructure in a base. That is now being done a dozen other ways. So all that is really left are a handful of machines that see some corner uses. For example, the Mining Well and DW20's drill. All of the things that BC used to do... are being done elsewhere. If Buildcraft wants to continue to be relevant, then it needs to find a niche which is otherwise not already taken by something (or several somethings) far superior.

The Filler and Builder would probably be the iconic aspects to the mod, that I would see. Large scale terrain alteration and mass architectural construction. Throw in some of the utility stuff like the pump and the floodgate and the mining well. It could well have a future in landscaping, which is always such an arduous process when done manually.

I'd also suggest modularizing your mod, but I doubt that would ever happen, despite the success the CoFH team have had with it.
 

KingTriaxx

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Some sort of non-magical grass generation would not go amiss.

I think perhaps a few pre-made patterns for the builder, such as Dire's 9x9, or the dirt hovel, would make it more interesting. Maybe have it possible to craft them from say a blueprint and a piece of cobble, or dirt. But also have them in the random loot tables.
 

SlightlyVisible

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Buildcraft's problem is that most of its features are no longer necessary. It used to be the logistical infrastructure in a base. That is now being done a dozen other ways. So all that is really left are a handful of machines that see some corner uses. For example, the Mining Well and DW20's drill. All of the things that BC used to do... are being done elsewhere. If Buildcraft wants to continue to be relevant, then it needs to find a niche which is otherwise not already taken by something (or several somethings) far superior.

The Filler and Builder would probably be the iconic aspects to the mod, that I would see. Large scale terrain alteration and mass architectural construction. Throw in some of the utility stuff like the pump and the floodgate and the mining well. It could well have a future in landscaping, which is always such an arduous process when done manually.

I'd also suggest modularizing your mod, but I doubt that would ever happen, despite the success the CoFH team have had with it.

I could not agree more, although I do believe they already intend to go modular in the future :) . Build-Craft should focus on the craft of construction and prevent itself from cloning anything that forestry, Thermal Expansion, or Railcraft already add. For example, example a mulitblock terraforming unit that can change the surrounding biomes. That's technology that fits build-craft's theme as it directly alters the world for the purpose of player construction.
 

asiekierka

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Why are laser powered furnaces being added? That seems like a task a direct RF connection would handle and not a laser. Lasers are used in industry for tasks such as cutting, or detecting quick changes that cameras can't record. With all due respect, this is unnecessary feature creep.

Wrong. First of all, we're not just adding a clone of a vanilla furnace - I am highly dissappointed in that every powered furnace is just a clone of a vanilla furnace with no unique mechanics of its own.

I'd also suggest modularizing your mod, but I doubt that would ever happen, despite the success the CoFH team have had with it.

Second of all, I have already done this in 7.0.1 Beta. I've spent a good chunk of my dev time re-modulariziing BuildCraft, like it used to be in 3.1.x/2.2.x and below.

Build-craft never, ever, just took popular features from another mod such as Industrial Craft, or Thermal Expansion, and needly implemented them.

*cough-color sorting-flood gate-cough* (Not to mention, furnaces are a vanilla feature! Vanilla already ripped us off with the Hopper!)

Third of all, BuildCraft needs to go more standalone and become its own mod rather than a foundation for other mods, because

Buildcraft's problem is that most of its features are no longer necessary. It used to be the logistical infrastructure in a base. That is now being done a dozen other ways. So all that is really left are a handful of machines that see some corner uses.

BuildCraft will no longer have a success as a foundation for other mods. We're trying to create a unique gameplay direction, not just "a TE4 addon", as people joke around about the new BC.

think perhaps a few pre-made patterns for the builder, such as Dire's 9x9, or the dirt hovel, would make it more interesting. Maybe have it possible to craft them from say a blueprint and a piece of cobble, or dirt. But also have them in the random loot tables.

And kill creativity? Pfft.

Build-Craft should focus on the craft of construction and prevent itself from cloning anything that forestry, Thermal Expansion, or Railcraft already add.

BuildCraft is an ecosystem of tightly integrated technology, not just a building mod. BuildCraft's goal is to provide a tightly integrated, interesting set of machines which provide engineering challenges and are FUN, not just clones of what's already out there - or machines which do the same thing vanilla does, just faster/better/with power/etc.
 
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ShneekeyTheLost

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BuildCraft is an ecosystem of tightly integrated technology, not just a building mod. BuildCraft's goal is to provide a tightly integrated, interesting set of machines which provide engineering challenges and are FUN, not just clones of what's already out there - or machines which do the same thing vanilla does, just faster/better/with power/etc.
That's a great Mission Statement, but it sounds like you have a lot of work to do to get there. So, without wanting to burden you further, I do have one other suggestion for a change: petrochemical industry.

Oil is used for exactly one thing: to be refined in fuel to be consumed by combustion engines. Which is exceedingly boring and a total waste of an otherwise invaluable resource! Oil and petroleum products are used in MANY applications, and refining and processing it can yield a number of valuable products. For example, Petroleum Jelly or Machine Oil for use as a lubricant of moving parts within a machine as a component. Lamp oil and lamps to light your way. Crack the oil down into tar for making paved roads with, butane and propane for burning, octanes to run in high-performance engines, and even have a filter addon to filter the sulfur out so you don't cause acid rain and can use it in other products.

Oil is something I've considered a primary nuisance ever since Forestry came out with Biofuel/ethanol. Make it something worth exploiting!
 

asiekierka

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I do have one other suggestion for a change: petrochemical industry.

Oil is used for exactly one thing: to be refined in fuel to be consumed by combustion engines. Which is exceedingly boring and a total waste of an otherwise invaluable resource! Oil and petroleum products are used in MANY applications, and refining and processing it can yield a number of valuable products. For example, Petroleum Jelly or Machine Oil for use as a lubricant of moving parts within a machine as a component. Lamp oil and lamps to light your way. Crack the oil down into tar for making paved roads with, butane and propane for burning, octanes to run in high-performance engines, and even have a filter addon to filter the sulfur out so you don't cause acid rain and can use it in other products.

Oil is something I've considered a primary nuisance ever since Forestry came out with Biofuel/ethanol. Make it something worth exploiting!

That's something we have been considering since May 2014 and is, in fact, a great way to solve a huge amount of these issues, but first, we need to solve a massive issue: 1.7 has severely lowered the amount of deserts and deep oceans that spawn in the world.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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That's something we have been considering since May 2014 and is, in fact, a great way to solve a huge amount of these issues, but first, we need to solve a massive issue: 1.7 has severely lowered the amount of deserts and deep oceans that spawn in the world.
Really? I can't seem to throw a stone without hitting one or the other. I suppose it depends on if you have the huge biomes setting on or not, and if you have BoP or not. Easiest way to solve this is to also permit oil to spawn in taiga and other snowy biomes.
 

ljfa

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Isn't it so that biomes of similar climate are clumped together? In this case you need to go far out for a desert when you're in a tundra.
 

asiekierka

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Isn't it so that biomes of similar climate are clumped together? In this case you need to go far out for a desert when you're in a tundra.

Yeah, but that makes it harder to find BC oil.

Perhaps underground deposits in taiga biomes aren't such a bad idea...
 
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GreenZombie

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Make a fracking machine, that you would build on the surface. It would drill down like a mining well until stopped by lava or bedrock, and once in place, would harvest coal blocks in a large (~64x64?) area, but extract them as (an equivalent quantity of) oil.

The machine would only harvest blocks as deep as it drills.
A "tower" block could be an upgrade to place in a stack on top of the fracking machine. Each tower block would enable the fracker to dig an additional ~16m
You would also need to supply it with water.
 
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