What would YOU change about BuildCraft?

[KingTriaxx]

I have to say, that BC does have tiering in-built. Redstone engines are just wood. Stirling's are just cobble. Combustion engines are top tier, made out of iron. But as it stands, you don't really need high flow golden fluid pipes for engines. I'm envisioning a 'High-temperature Combustion Engine'. It produces 160 RF/t, but it requires two diamond gears, a standard combustion engine in place of the piston, a tank in place of the glass. A gold block in the center along the top and two Golden Kinesis pipes on the sides.

On the other hand, it gathers a lot of power per 'stroke' of the piston, and dumps it all into the system at once, but it's very slow to produce. Something along the lines of half the rate of other engines. At the same time, though, it should also require both a solid and liquid fuel to produce, as well as coolant. And it should burn an awful lot of coolant. More than double what the standard combustion engine does. If it sounds like a lot of work, that's the idea.

 

[Golrith]

I believe that disabling the Apiarist Pipe works as a temporary fix.

Sweet, I'll try that out. From what I've seen in B7, there are some changes that I'd love to work with.

 

[Pyure]

I have to say, that BC does have tiering in-built. Redstone engines are just wood. Stirling's are just cobble. Combustion engines are top tier, made out of iron. But as it stands, you don't really need high flow golden fluid pipes for engines. I'm envisioning a 'High-temperature Combustion Engine'. It produces 160 RF/t, but it requires two diamond gears, a standard combustion engine in place of the piston, a tank in place of the glass. A gold block in the center along the top and two Golden Kinesis pipes on the sides.

On the other hand, it gathers a lot of power per 'stroke' of the piston, and dumps it all into the system at once, but it's very slow to produce. Something along the lines of half the rate of other engines. At the same time, though, it should also require both a solid and liquid fuel to produce, as well as coolant. And it should burn an awful lot of coolant. More than double what the standard combustion engine does. If it sounds like a lot of work, that's the idea.

Stone and wood are the same tier. They're not the same material, but they are the same tier, using game design concepts.

You can barely make the argument that Iron is an extra tier, but I find that a stretch. For all intents and purposes, wood stone and iron are all entry-level "you can gather these from the ground" resources.

 

[lenscas]

The only tiering in the engines is what you need to do to get power out of it.
for redstone you need nothing
stirling = solid fuel like coal
combustion=liquid fuel like biofuel/ethanol

charcoal and biofuel come from the same source thus even in infrastructure to run "higher tier" engines is not that spectacular.

However I kind of like this as I don't like tiers for the sake of having tiers. This is something that this would be if they where in fact different tiers

 

[Pyure]

The only tiering in the engines is what you need to do to get power out of it.
for redstone you need nothing
stirling = solid fuel like coal
combustion=liquid fuel like biofuel/ethanol

charcoal and biofuel come from the same source thus even in infrastructure to run "higher tier" engines is not that spectacular.

However I kind of like this as I don't like tiers for the sake of having tiers. This is something that this would be if they where in fact different tiers

Right. I prefer tiering myself, but its not necessary to shoehorn it into BC.

 

[lenscas]

Right. I prefer tiering myself, but its not necessary to shoehorn it into BC.

There is a place for tiering but not in the engine from buildcraft at least not in this state.

Oh and to clarify when I talk about tiers it just 10rf/tick becomes 20rf/tic for some extra price. I am not talking about changing the behavior of an item. If a "tier" does that then I don't see it as a next tier unless it has a darn good counter argument.

 

[Pyure]

There is a place for tiering but not in the engine from buildcraft at least not in this state.

Oh and to clarify when I talk about tiers it just 10rf/tick becomes 20rf/tic for some extra price. I am not talking about changing the behavior of an item. If a "tier" does that then I don't see it as a next tier unless it has a darn good counter argument.

In game design, a tier depicts a scenario where one thing depends on the thing preceeding it.

In other words, pretend the best BC engine was crafted out of Buildcraftium, a special metal that can only be produced by smelting iron in a special furnace which requires significant power from a lower-engine tier. In this case the latter engine requires lower-tier technologies (engines and special furnaces) to be accomplished and used first.

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

In game design, a tier depicts a scenario where one thing depends on the thing preceeding it.

In other words, pretend the best BC engine was crafted out of Buildcraftium, a special metal that can only be produced by smelting iron in a special furnace which requires significant power from a lower-engine tier. In this case the latter engine requires lower-tier technologies (engines and special furnaces) to be accomplished and used first.

On that note, I vote for "Buildcraftium" to be in the game. No? Aww

 

[CovertJaguar]

I'd say that BC Engines aren't so much tiered, as intended for different purposes. The Redstone Engine doesn't even produce RF anymore, it's more of a throttleable control module for other mechanism. The Stirling Engine only shines when you are need quick and portable power, like for powering a temporary filler for example. It has such a horrid fuel->power ratio that it would be ridiculous to use it for anything else. Now, if you need stable, constant and stationary power, that's where the Combustion Engine shines.

There really isn't any "tiering" going on, and it's never been the intent. If it was tiered, I probably never would have emulated the system for Railcraft, since I -hate- tiering. Every example I've ever seen of tiering in Minecraft always resulted in a race to the top tier, building at most, one unit of each previous tier. The lower tiers might as well not exist.

I've always subscribed to the theory of game design, that if A is unqualifiedly worse that B, delete A. Its much more interesting if A is better in situations where B is horrible and B is better in situations where A is no good.

This is especially true when your own means of gating content is via crafting components.

 

[Pyure]

If it was tiered, I probably never would have emulated the system for Railcraft, since I -hate- tiering. Every example I've ever seen of tiering in Minecraft always resulted in a race to the top tier, building at most, one unit of each previous tier. The lower tiers might as well not exist.

I've always subscribed to the theory of game design, that if A is unqualifiedly worse that B, delete A. Its much more interesting if A is better in situations where B is horrible and B is better in situations where A is no good.

This is especially true when your own means of gating content is via crafting components.

I agree with this when tiering is done poorly. I hate races to the top.

But for many, many players, a sense of "progression" is critical for their entertainment. Different engines for different purposes are completely worthless if the challenge of "reaching the top of the tech ladder" is what makes things fun for me in the first place.

The right tool for the right job is a great system that works fine for BC, but for player types like mine its pretty empty. I don't want a clever selection of tools, I want to see if I can figure out how to build a top tier MegaWidget in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[l3lackCalamity]

I agree with this when tiering is done poorly. I hate races to the top.

But for many, many players, a sense of "progression" is critical for their entertainment. Different engines for different purposes are completely worthless if the challenge of "reaching the top of the tech ladder" is what makes things fun for me in the first place.

The right tool for the right job is a great system that works fine for BC, but for player types like mine its pretty empty. I don't want a clever selection of tools, I want to see if I can figure out how to build a top tier MegaWidget in a reasonable amount of time.

If you only take joy in racing to the top then what do you do once you get there? That gameplay style may be suitable for short term worlds, but it leaves much to be desired over time.

 

[Pyure]

If you only take joy in racing to the top then what do you do once you get there? That gameplay style may be suitable for short term worlds, but it leaves much to be desired over time.

Nothing. It sucks. Start over? Try other mods?

Its better than nothing. I take no joy from aesthetic builds

 

[Bagman817]

Nothing. It sucks. Start over? Try other mods?

Its better than nothing. I take no joy from aesthetic builds

This is why a lot of us like HQM packs. I suck at setting my own goals.

 

[Pyure]

This is why a lot of us like HQM packs. I suck at setting my own goals.

HQM, a massive landmark in minecraft modding. Almost as big a game changer as NEI

 

[asiekierka]

The right tool for the right job is a great system that works fine for BC, but for player types like mine its pretty empty. I don't want a clever selection of tools, I want to see if I can figure out how to build a top tier MegaWidget in a reasonable amount of time.

That's why we have different mods. BuildCraft is not geared towards everyone and going in a direction that tries to please everyone is not on my priority list.

What Calamity said.

EDIT: Also, don't interpret this wrong, but for me HQM is the last nail in the coffin for the modded Minecraft vision I subscribed to and for the days of Alpha I adored so much. It's the thing which finishes Mojang's shoddy attempts at making Minecraft into a semi-adventure game. The prevalence of HQM packs shows clearly that players don't want Minecraft to be a true sandbox anymore, and that's fine - but it's not what I wanted. I tried to rebuild what I missed, but it turned out I'd need to pull either an Eloraam or a FlowerChild (maybe a Bioxx) to get there. Not sure which option is better. (no, BC would not be affected)

 

[Pyure]

That's why we have different mods. BuildCraft is not geared towards everyone and going in a direction that tries to please everyone is not on my priority list.

I hope I was pretty clear that my tastes don't and shouldn't suit anyone else's

My first mod ever was BC. It has a special place in my heart and I still use it to this day. Its not the center of any pack I play but I have BC pipes all over my base, and BC logic gates ensuring my power setups don't overload, and occasionally I still find a need to plonk a quarry somewhere.

And if I were smart enough to get robots to do what I wanted, I'd probably use those too.

 

[RedBoss]

BC brought me into mods. I saw the quarry and was amazed. FINALLY, a tool to collect blocks so I don't waste time grinding for materials. I'm a aesthetic builder. I'll pay the cost to setup infrastructure if I'll end up with tons of building blocks. Then I saw the filler and I finally felt the urge to do buildings in the post modern style. Huge offset rectangles that get built for me? Sold.

I'm not a technical builder. I like fire and forget energy, because I'm more interested in the new content from Chisel 2. But I can't drop Buildcraft even if I don't use the quarry anymore. I used the builder last night and fell in love. Its amazing. I love it.

 

[SolManX]

That's why we have different mods. BuildCraft is not geared towards everyone and going in a direction that tries to please everyone is not on my priority list.

What Calamity said.

EDIT: Also, don't interpret this wrong, but for me HQM is the last nail in the coffin for the modded Minecraft vision I subscribed to and for the days of Alpha I adored so much. It's the thing which finishes Mojang's shoddy attempts at making Minecraft into a semi-adventure game. The prevalence of HQM packs shows clearly that players don't want Minecraft to be a true sandbox anymore, and that's fine - but it's not what I wanted. I tried to rebuild what I missed, but it turned out I'd need to pull either an Eloraam or a FlowerChild (maybe a Bioxx) to get there. Not sure which option is better. (no, BC would not be affected)

First of all, I love buildcraft. Only got into it recently (via regrowth and drone pack) and have really enjoyed using it, so thanks a bunch for all the hard work.

Secondly, though, without HQM packs, I probably wouldn't have gotten around to using it. HQM packs I've played have helped me learn a ton of new mods - from BC and IC2 to forestry and mariculture. I had a great time playing through a "learn gregtech" pack for 1.6.4. I just wouldn't have had the time (or vision) to play around with these mods without it. So, at least in that capacity, HQM is good.

Lastly, I seriously have no idea what an 'Eloraam' is, but it sounds bad, so don't so it!

 

[asiekierka]

First of all, I love buildcraft. Only got into it recently (via regrowth and drone pack) and have really enjoyed using it, so thanks a bunch for all the hard work.

Secondly, though, without HQM packs, I probably wouldn't have gotten around to using it. HQM packs I've played have helped me learn a ton of new mods - from BC and IC2 to forestry and mariculture. I had a great time playing through a "learn gregtech" pack for 1.6.4. I just wouldn't have had the time (or vision) to play around with these mods without it. So, at least in that capacity, HQM is good.

Lastly, I seriously have no idea what an 'Eloraam' is, but it sounds bad, so don't so it!

HQM is good as a tutorial, but the use of it to turn Minecraft into a quest game is what irks me so much.

 

[Golrith]

I must have been dreaming, but I thought Buildcraft 7 was featuring many new multiblocks (especially the refinery). I swear I remember seeing screenshots. Or am I getting my mods mixed up? It was some time ago.