What would YOU change about BuildCraft?

[jordsta95]

I am going to answer the original question.

I would change buildcraft to add a higher tier generator, maybe something like 8 combustion engines surrounding a tank (crafting recipe) it would produce 4x the energy output of a combustion engine, have a higher internal buffer, and will run only on fuel, no coolant (and no explosions).

I just feel that BC's energy usage is a little beyond what the engines in the mod produce. Although they can keep up, with the changes to how the quarry and mining well work, they are slowed a fair amount, and better energy producers would make them as speedy as they used to be. It's a "why should I bother with combustion engines when there are better alternatives?" thing at the minute

 

[GreenZombie]

I am going to answer the original question.

I would change buildcraft to add a higher tier generator, maybe something like 8 combustion engines surrounding a tank (crafting recipe) it would produce 4x the energy output of a combustion engine, have a higher internal buffer, and will run only on fuel, no coolant (and no explosions).

I just feel that BC's energy usage is a little beyond what the engines in the mod produce. Although they can keep up, with the changes to how the quarry and mining well work, they are slowed a fair amount, and better energy producers would make them as speedy as they used to be. It's a "why should I bother with combustion engines when there are better alternatives?" thing at the minute

I have felt that the ONE charm of buildcraft that is left is the fact that the actual engine built is implicitly a multiblock structure. The actual combustion engines form the pistons of the thing.

I would be dissapointed with the suggestion.

If anything, I think that similar logic needs to be applied into breaking things like the quarry up into multiple blocks that, when combined, produce the behaviour of the current block.

 

[lenscas]

I have felt that the ONE charm of buildcraft that is left is the fact that the actual engine built is implicitly a multiblock structure. The actual combustion engines form the pistons of the thing.

I would be dissapointed with the suggestion.

If anything, I think that similar logic needs to be applied into breaking things like the quarry up into multiple blocks that, when combined, produce the behaviour of the current block.

I must agree and disagree on the same thing. I hate engine spam but I must admit that doing it with the engines from buildcraft and railcraft look quite nice as it actually moves. Not so sure about the forced multiblock quarry though.

 

[asiekierka]

I just feel that BC's energy usage is a little beyond what the engines in the mod produce. Although they can keep up, with the changes to how the quarry and mining well work, they are slowed a fair amount, and better energy producers would make them as speedy as they used to be. It's a "why should I bother with combustion engines when there are better alternatives?" thing at the minute

They are speedy enough. The usage is balanced with BC's engines in mind, as proven with extensive gameplay testing on a server BC is unofficially tested on (no, not ForgeCraft).

Please define 'intended gameplay experience', because I do not think it means what you think it means.

There is no mod but BuildCraft, and asie is its lead maintainer. If there's a feature in BC which needs another mod to be utilized, that's a terrible feature and deserves shame. We aim for standalone play.

It used to be the logistical infrastructure in a base. So all that is really left are a handful of machines that see some corner uses. Blah blah BuildCraft is an outdated piece of junk.

If you don't want to play BuildCraft, DO NOT PLAY BUILDCRAFT. It's not outdated, it's not inferior, it has a specific design which still gives us tons of functionality not replicated in any other mod. Gates, dynamic item sorting, robots, fillers, builders, flood gates, the exciting visuals of quarries and pumps, the CraftPacket-inspired crafting system, an autocrafting system that isn't free - because labour is never free, the most extensive item sorting system that doesn't break immersion, a pipe system which puts THE PLAYER - THE ENGINEER in control instead of some fancy smart algorithm, et cetera.

We have a specific vision of gameplay and calling that "outdated" is just... Eugh.

If you think that's all outdated and inferior, well, more power to you - go play a mod you actually enjoy, because having five mods which function in the exact same way is about as much fun as Linux distributions.

 

[Pyure]

If you think that's all outdated and inferior, well, more power to you - go play a mod you actually enjoy, because having five mods which function in the exact same way is about as much fun as Linux distributions.

The problem is that the market for smart, challenge-oriented players who don't like everything handed to them easily is a relatively small slice of the pie, asie

In order for some of those things to work, you have to get them into a game where people don't already have much simpler systems to work with (or with players who can pretend simpler mechanism don't exist and don't mind rubegoldberging it a bit)

 

[asiekierka]

The problem is that the market for smart, challenge-oriented players who don't like everything handed to them easily is a relatively small slice of the pie, asie

In order for some of those things to work, you have to get them into a game where people don't already have much simpler systems to work with (or with players who can pretend simpler mechanism don't exist and don't mind rubegoldberging it a bit)

That's why I'm considering pulling an Eloraam.

Still, I'm not going to make BuildCraft easier just so people can use it again. If they only used it as it was the easiest/only solution at the time, well, I'm glad we can focus on people who like it for the mechanics because other mods have provided easier solutions.

 

[lenscas]

That's why I'm considering pulling an Eloraam.

Still, I'm not going to make BuildCraft easier just so people can use it again. If they only used it as it was the easiest/only solution at the time, well, I'm glad we can focus on people who like it for the mechanics because other mods have provided easier solutions.

Please don't pull an Eloraam then I have no good pipe system anymore or a desire to play with any pipe system at all as they are all so boring.

 

[asiekierka]

Please don't pull an Eloraam then I have no good pipe system anymore or a desire to play with any pipe system at all as they are all so boring.

My pack has failed when I was removing or replacing almost every aspect of vanilla. Besides, I would not quit without estabilishing a BC development team - that'd just be silly. I know hea3ven and perhaps CovertJaguar could handle bugfixing and plumbing, and pull requests would be handled...

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There is no mod but BuildCraft, and asie is its lead maintainer. If there's a feature in BC which needs another mod to be utilized, that's a terrible feature and deserves shame. We aim for standalone play.

So... don't put BC in a mod pack? Umm... okay. Done.

I understand wanting to be internally consistent, and as a mod developer that is an important view to not lose track of. However, as an end-user and former pack developer, I have to take each mod not just on its own merits, but also how it interacts and compares with other mods being considered. No one mod exists in a vacuum, other than perhaps a Total Conversion Mod like BTW or TFC (and even then, there are mods for the TFC environment).

Comparisons with other mods are not only inevitable, they are a part of the job. I cannot provide a solid mod pack without evaluating each mod going into the pack and seeing how it blends in as a whole.

 

[asiekierka]

So... don't put BC in a mod pack? Umm... okay. Done.

I understand wanting to be internally consistent, and as a mod developer that is an important view to not lose track of. However, as an end-user and former pack developer, I have to take each mod not just on its own merits, but also how it interacts and compares with other mods being considered. No one mod exists in a vacuum, other than perhaps a Total Conversion Mod like BTW or TFC (and even then, there are mods for the TFC environment).

Comparisons with other mods are not only inevitable, they are a part of the job. I cannot provide a solid mod pack without evaluating each mod going into the pack and seeing how it blends in as a whole.

We interact with other mods just fine. If you add other mods which provide the exact same functionality, I think it's obvious that they will provide different measures of balance and different design decisions. That's why we're modular - only add the modules which don't conflict with your pack's design.

 

[CovertJaguar]

I, for one, think asie has done a pretty good job picking up the torch after storm that was SpaceToad blew through. Buildcraft is in better hands than it has been for ages, mine included. He has done tons of optimizations, cleaned up massive amounts code, a lot of which was too scary even for me to touch, and he has actually advanced the mod rather than just maintained it.

I've played with many of the so called "newer/better" mods, they do nothing for me. I don't play sandbox games to zone out and paint the walls. I play sandbox games for the complexity of creating things. Factorio is a good comparison here, its mechanics are similar to Buildcraft. You want to move an item from point A to point B, you better darn well understand how the conveyors and inserters work. If you just laid down a generic magic item network pipe that connected to every machine in the base and that was the end of it, factory complete, you never need to worry about getting that circuit to the machine on the other side of the base again, well...that wouldn't be any fun. Buildcraft satisfies the same itch.

 

[Pyure]

I, for one, think asie has done a pretty good job picking up the torch after storm that was SpaceToad blew through. Buildcraft is in better hands than it has been for ages, mine included. He has done tons of optimizations, cleaned up massive amounts code, a lot of which was too scary even for me to touch, and he has actually advanced the mod rather than just maintained it.

I've played with many of the so called "newer/better" mods, they do nothing for me. I don't play sandbox games to zone out and paint the walls. I play sandbox games for the complexity of creating things. Factorio is a good comparison here, its mechanics are similar to Buildcraft. You want to move an item from point A to point B, you better darn well understand how the conveyors and inserters work. If you just laid down a generic magic item network pipe that connected to every machine in the base and that was the end of it, factory complete, you never need to worry about getting that circuit to the machine on the other side of the base again, well...that wouldn't be any fun. Buildcraft satisfies the same itch.

CJ why the hell isn't the image in your signature a link to an RC site?

 

[CovertJaguar]

CJ why the hell isn't the image in your signature a link to an RC site?

If I recall, there is a character limit, and I hit it.

 

[Golrith]

I, for one, think asie has done a pretty good job picking up the torch after storm that was SpaceToad blew through. Buildcraft is in better hands than it has been for ages, mine included. He has done tons of optimizations, cleaned up massive amounts code, a lot of which was too scary even for me to touch, and he has actually advanced the mod rather than just maintained it.

I've played with many of the so called "newer/better" mods, they do nothing for me. I don't play sandbox games to zone out and paint the walls. I play sandbox games for the complexity of creating things. Factorio is a good comparison here, its mechanics are similar to Buildcraft. You want to move an item from point A to point B, you better darn well understand how the conveyors and inserters work. If you just laid down a generic magic item network pipe that connected to every machine in the base and that was the end of it, factory complete, you never need to worry about getting that circuit to the machine on the other side of the base again, well...that wouldn't be any fun. Buildcraft satisfies the same itch.

Here here!

Playing Factorio myself at the moment, amazing how small things suddenly escalate into a sprawling factory.

Now you've mentioned it, I'd love to see wooden pipes+redstone engine combo replacing with inserters. Few if any mods (that I'm aware off) have successfully made those robot arms. That would look amazing and add to the industrial look that you do get when using buildcraft pipes.


On a separate but kinda related note, will there be a forestry version compatible with the beta version of buildcraft 7? I'd love to see BC7 with Forestry but I always get a crash from forestry about a buildcraft creative tab. I know it's beta and so expected that things will not work, but a guy can dream

 

[KingTriaxx]

I think a big part of BC is the visual appeal. Any mod can have super pipes that move things instantly and show nothing. BC's got pipes that look cool. No one else has void pipes. Trash cans or void chests are great, but void pipes are awesome, and come in fluid variants.

I do agree on the idea of more powerful BC engines, if only because eventually a sufficiently large field of engines is a performance drag, no matter what. Ultimately though, the engines are perfectly well balanced for Build Craft. Unfortunately, not everyone plays BC the same way. And once I'm running four quarries at once, my standard 10 combustion engines isn't enough. On the other hand, you've got pipes capable of moving absolutely tremendous amounts of power, but no way to really introduce that kind of power into the system.

 

[Pyure]

I think a big part of BC is the visual appeal. Any mod can have super pipes that move things instantly and show nothing. BC's got pipes that look cool. No one else has void pipes. Trash cans or void chests are great, but void pipes are awesome, and come in fluid variants.

I do agree on the idea of more powerful BC engines, if only because eventually a sufficiently large field of engines is a performance drag, no matter what. Ultimately though, the engines are perfectly well balanced for Build Craft. Unfortunately, not everyone plays BC the same way. And once I'm running four quarries at once, my standard 10 combustion engines isn't enough. On the other hand, you've got pipes capable of moving absolutely tremendous amounts of power, but no way to really introduce that kind of power into the system.

Agreed with everything here, my only concern is that BC doesn't natively really come up with any way to "tier" engines in such a way that people won't just skip everything and go to top tier.

I think the only issue with BC is that the pool of good mods is so diluted that the oldschool classics simply can't expect to keep their old share of the attention.

And meanwhile, just like shows like Firefly get shafted in favour of IHave43Kids(tm) etc, so will we have to accept that given a choice the majority of peeps are going to drift to simpler, mindless drivel mods sometimes.

This is me being elitest. Deal. PS: bring back kaylee.

 

[asiekierka]

I do agree on the idea of more powerful BC engines, if only because eventually a sufficiently large field of engines is a performance drag, no matter what. Ultimately though, the engines are perfectly well balanced for Build Craft. Unfortunately, not everyone plays BC the same way. And once I'm running four quarries at once, my standard 10 combustion engines isn't enough. On the other hand, you've got pipes capable of moving absolutely tremendous amounts of power, but no way to really introduce that kind of power into the system.

The problem is adding more powerful BC engines should come at some kind of tradeoff. Historically, that role was accomplished by RailCraft's steam energy ecosystem, and I still believe it should be the go-to path for high-end energy production - but I don't know what to add to BC itself yet. (Also, the high-end energy pipes were primarily added for other mods to use.)

EDIT: The thing that bothers me most nowadays is that it's "cool" and "hip" to remove the old mods like BC and IC2 from packs. *sigh*

 

[Celestialphoenix]

EDIT: The thing that bothers me most nowadays is that it's "cool" and "hip" to remove the old mods like BC and IC2 from packs. *sigh*

Chin up; its just a passing fad.

Besides a pack where BC feels overshadowed/antiquated is probably better off without BC; as it won't do much to change the 'dinosaur' reputation.​

The good news is there's a fairly strong engineering community, and a quite a few packs floating around which showcase the BC mod family.

 

[RedBoss]

In fairness though, IC2 isn't in current packs. We need to call it IC3 because that's how different it is.

 

[CovertJaguar]

On a separate but kinda related note, will there be a forestry version compatible with the beta version of buildcraft 7? I'd love to see BC7 with Forestry but I always get a crash from forestry about a buildcraft creative tab. I know it's beta and so expected that things will not work, but a guy can dream

I believe that disabling the Apiarist Pipe works as a temporary fix.