What mods could be used to replace redpower 2 (not talking about its place in FTB)

[FireStarter]

Since I'm apparently a focus of this thread, if anyone is going to ask me for microblocks, my answer is "use immibis'" though you may need to edit the config to make it work properly. I'm going to get support for them natively into my cables for 2.6 so they block connections, but for now if you enable them in the config it works great there too. Hopefully that'll help the person who was talking about slabs that were transparent for sunlight.

Oh what's the string to type in the config to enable rednet cables? oh and maybe ask immibis to just default it in the config. In other news, I'm that guy in MCF with a really horrible name that I don't want to say here (cause it's THAT bad) and loves hanging around your thread [DOUBLEPOST=1367222106][/DOUBLEPOST]Now that I think about it, Forestry's trees (although man-made to begin with), Natura's trees (redwood LAGS SO MUCH) and Forgotten Nature's trees (if they do get added in) would basically turn every forest into a rainbow.

 

[Lambert2191]

LMAO!!!! you can't even distribute anything without using a sorting machine! Or use NBT data.

Sooo many sorting systems. Really, RP2 was the weakest of the lot.

Lol, really? RP2's sorting system was the undisputed strongest of them all until AE came along. also, if you put a line of enchanted books through a tube system into barrels, it does work exactly as one would expect it to, so that thing about NBT data that people thing they know just because of what Dire said in his vid, you're wrong. Get over it.

 

[Greyed]

Lol, really? RP2's sorting system was the undisputed strongest of them all until AE came along.

Actually, I did quite a bit of disputing about RP2 sorting. So have several other people.

if you put a line of enchanted books through a tube system into barrels

Note, this is not RP2. This is RP2 + Barrels. The magic lies in the barrels, not RP2.

so that thing about NBT data that people thing they know just because of what Dire said in his vid, you're wrong. Get over it.

Which I never said, so I have nothing to get over.

Look, it boils down to the difference between where the sorting takes place. You can either have it at the head of the system, or the tail of the system. Head of the system means you have to direct traffic at the beginning of the system and all configuration starts there. The tail of the system means you're configuring where things go at the destination. Let me give you a few examples of head vs. tail configuration.

Head: RP2 sorting machine, RP2 inline painting filters, diamond pipes (kinda)
Tail: LP, AE, RP2 inline filters (kinda)

Tail configurations are far easier to setup and maintain. This is because you're working near the storage. In fact, with AE and LP the configuration is the storage. In both of those mods you tell the network what to place in a particular inventory by placing it in the inventory! Want it filtered somewhere else? Pick it up and move it to that other inventory. Simple, intuitive and amazingly powerful.

Head configuration is where you create a filter at the input, then tell the system where to route each filter type. Basically, RP2's painting structure. I want this item to go here, paint it red, paint the destination red, and there ya go! Which works fine until you want to start shuffling things around. Then you have to dig up your machines.

Now, let's pause for a minute and discuss just the limitations of each system. AE allows you to input into the system and drop the items into an unlimited number of slots. All you have to do is place the item in a slot and that's were it'll go until the drive fills up. Of course you don't have to do that, letting them fill up the drives as they may. With LP you get chest slots worth of routing per chest. I word it that way as chest size varies with the inclusion of other mods, so larger chests mean more configuration slots. With filters you get 9 slots, period. With sorting machines you get 40, 8 on 5 possible routes. To put that in perspective, a diamond pipe will get you 45, 9 on 5 possible routes.

So, what was the big revolution in RP2 sorting? As you noted, barrels. Factorization gave us a method to have one, and only one, item per storage block. This means with a series of RP2 tubes and barrels you get to configure your sorting system by placing the item you want in the slot you want. Huh. Tail sorting. RP2 didn't get popular, powerful, intuitive sorting that people fawn over until was paired with another mod and gave us the same configuration functionality as those mods. Except, instead of an infinite number of slots, or a chest's number worth of slots, or even 9 slots as per an inline filter, we get, 1.

I know, AE came out after the RP2 + Barrel functionality. Except that wasn't the context I wrote it in. I said that RP2 filtering is pretty weak, present tense. But even if that were the case RP2 filtering has been up against LP since at least 1.2.5. LP is still tail sorting. Even better, LP operates on a request system. I want x items in that machine over there? Drop the correct pipe which requests the proper item from the network and it gets done. RP2 only recently gained that functionality and even then it is only in the form of managers and they can only pull from other managers! All other such functionality is dumbfire (IE, can't access overflow once items pass the machine's inventory) or require some pretty annoying gymnastics on the part of the player.

Now, even if you want to champion RP2 and consider it on par with the the other systems there's one part where they shine. The part that will always and forever be the Achilles' heel of RP2. All three sorting systems need power. AE can use EU and MJ. LP can use EU and MJ. RP2 requires RP2 power. I'll let my band of crickets explain how many other mods can effectively use RP2 power.

*chirp, chirp*

 

[Lambert2191]

Right, firstly, do you see how I quoted two people? If part of what I wrote (namely the NBT data) doesn't apply to you, you can safely assume it applies to the other person.
You say RP2 sorting only works well with other mods, namely factorisation, but then you go on to laud Logistics pipes, which doesn't work (I believe) without BC, so you're basically telling me I can't use a certain argument while using it yourself.
Read my quote again, see how I said "Until AE came along" that means I know AE is a better storage system (disregarding aesthetics and only taking into account functionality) so you don't need to explain the benefits of that system, I already know it.
So if we leave out "other mod interactions", we leave out AE, what storage systems are we left with...
BC pipes and RP2 machines. I can't think of another but I'm sure you'll come up with a list as long as my arm in a moment.
What's better? BC throwing it's shit all over the floor, the maze of pipes you had to had to navigate around? Or RP2's simple, elegant solution.
And yeah, theres BC power that can be made with RP2 power, your crickets need a new conductor.

*tweet, tweet*

 

[Greyed]

Right, firstly, do you see how I quoted two people? If part of what I wrote (namely the NBT data) doesn't apply to you, you can safely assume it applies to the other person.

Yes, and you made no distinction on your reply. Though I saw it I chose to address it.

You say RP2 sorting only works well with other mods, namely factorisation, but then you go on to laud Logistics pipes, which doesn't work (I believe) without BC, so you're basically telling me I can't use a certain argument while using it yourself.

Quite the contrary. I am well aware that LP is an extension to BC pipes. I am stating that LP is great and the implicit understanding is that BC is kind of a requirement. Now, if I were doing what you did I would say that BC sorting was the bomb because LP works so nicely with it.

Notice that in discussing replacements for RP2 sorting I cited that RP2 was weak. I didn't say RP2 + barrels though I still think it is weak with barrels, as I described. You then charged to its defense by adding in barrels and concluding that RP2 isn't so bad.

Read my quote again, see how I said "Until AE came along" that means I know AE is a better storage system (disregarding aesthetics and only taking into account functionality) so you don't need to explain the benefits of that system, I already know it.

I read it. And addressed that point by pointing out that LP was a contemporary of RP2 since 1.2.5, well before AE.

Here's a dirty little secret. I actually think LP is the best sorting/logistics system out there right now. I think AE is a close second and choose to use it since I think it is better balanced.

And yeah, theres BC power that can be made with RP2 power, your crickets need a new conductor.

Nope. See, I choose my words with care. My exact statement was, with the salient point you ignored bolded, "I'll let my band of crickets explain how many other mods can effectively use RP2 power."

While RP2's engine can crank out 32MJ/t the amount of space you need to dedicate to generating enough power to constantly crank out 32MJ of power is astounding. My math might be a bit off since I've never actually done it, but here goes. According to the FtB Wiki page for the engine the conversion rate is, "The conversion rate is 1 kW:1 MJ with a max output of 32MJ/t." This means we need 32kW of steady power to maintain a 32MJ output through that engine.

Solar panels can crank out up to 200W, so 5 per kW, or 160. And that's only during the day.

Turbines can crank out up to 2kW or 5kW (horizontal vs. vertical) so we need 6 of those, way, way up high. Good news is that is that they are constantly outputting power. Bad news is that I believe they don't hit the max unless it is during a storm. So, who knows, 10, 12? Those things aren't small.

That leaves thermopiles.... without going into the math, just no.

So, 132 blocks for solar, who knows how many for wind, or a 36LP boiler w/engines, gets you a constant 36MJ/t in far less than 132 blocks.

See why I put that word there? It makes all the difference in the world because, sure, you can use the MJ RP2 can generate. But you're not going to do much with it before you just slap down anything else, even a bank of Sterling engines, and be done with it.

 

[power crystals]

Oh what's the string to type in the config to enable rednet cables? oh and maybe ask immibis to just default it in the config. In other news, I'm that guy in MCF with a really horrible name that I don't want to say here (cause it's THAT bad) and loves hanging around your thread

blockClass: powercrystals.minefactoryreloaded.block.BlockRedstoneCable
tileEntityClass: powercrystals.minefactoryreloaded.tile.TileRedstoneCable

 

[Lambert2191]

The only time I mentioned barrels was in relation to the NBT data/Enchanted book thing, so that really isn't a part of my argument that RP2 is a good sorting system, but just a rebuttal of what Dravarden has said. RP2 works great even without barrels, IF you know what you're doing. You seem like a smart guy so I'm going to assume you do know what you're doing, correct me if I'm wrong on that.
RP2 tubes filling into chests via sorting machine/coloured tubes works pretty darn well, as does end of the line filters. My argument isn't that RP2 is the best sorting system, but that it isn't the worst, which it clearly isn't.

 

[Dravarden]

The only time I mentioned barrels was in relation to the NBT data/Enchanted book thing, so that really isn't a part of my argument that RP2 is a good sorting system, but just a rebuttal of what Dravarden has said. RP2 works great even without barrels.

the barrels are the ones that work with NBT, not the tubes.

and about the spilling items all over the place, it can easily be fixed with the buildcraft addon of pipes (the one with distribution and teleport) just by simply placing an advanced insertion on top of an inventory and on a side a tesseract to a different place or a void pipe.

I know, its an addon, it should be vanilla buildcraft... but at least you can make buildcraft addons with no problems.

 

[KirinDave]

Sorting System:
Applied Energistics
Factorization (routers and barrels)
Logistics Pipes (jenkins builds might be unstable from time to time)
Thaumcraft (Golems... GOLEMS)

I tried including Logistics Pipes in my latest modpack and hit HUGE issues with it, on a variety of levels. I had a map corrupting trivial build for awhile. I shied away.

Consider using more of Immibis's mods, including InfiniTubes. InfiniTubes has all the same properties of RP2 tubes without that lag. Unfortunately for 1.5.1 users, there is no mod that provides something as powerful and flexible as the sorting machine at this time for such a low cost and elegant UI. However, InfiniTubes can come very close.

Redstone Wiring:
Power Crystals Minefactory Reloaded

Redstone Logic:
Power Crystals Minefactory Reloaded (jenkins builds might be unstable from time to time)

These features are released and they are incredibly good. Going from RedPower2 to MFR's RedNet stuff is a huge upgrade in functionality and capability. The scope and capability of rednet far exceeds even the most sophisticated redpower2 stuff. So even if RP2 gets ported, consider learning and using these mods.

Just so you realize: it is possible to make fully functional computers by hand using MFR's rednet PRCs that are upgraded. They include many logic features you find in conventional digital logic chips including direct support for seven segment displays, analog meters, and the new Thermal Expansion variable-light-output lamps!

RedPower 2 adds a few other things you might want to replace. For example, the humble canvas bag! We're using Backpacks as a substitute. You may also want to use Gregtech's alloy furnace if you liked 1-step alloy-ification.

You may also be interested in the Universal Elecrticity pack if you'd like a more faithful representation of electricity like RP2 provided. Interestingly, UE's stuff plays very well with other power systems, and many mods in Ultimate can directly consume UE energy. Further, UE's Mekanism mod provides Energy Cubes, which are universal power acceptors (can accept any type of power but Factorization which the author claims to want to support) and outputs to whatever type the red side is connected to, using standard conversion ratios. UE also can be used to generate steam with many of its power systems, and claims to have more integration with this feature in the pipe. It's entirely possible to produce a huge sum of MJ from an Atomic Science nuclear reactor.

 

[steelblueskies]

I tried including Logistics Pipes in my latest modpack and hit HUGE issues with it, on a variety of levels. I had a map corrupting trivial build for awhile. I shied away.

Consider using more of Immibis's mods, including InfiniTubes. InfiniTubes has all the same properties of RP2 tubes without that lag. Unfortunately for 1.5.1 users, there is no mod that provides something as powerful and flexible as the sorting machine at this time for such a low cost and elegant UI. However, InfiniTubes can come very close.



These features are released and they are incredibly good. Going from RedPower2 to MFR's RedNet stuff is a huge upgrade in functionality and capability. The scope and capability of rednet far exceeds even the most sophisticated redpower2 stuff. So even if RP2 gets ported, consider learning and using these mods.

Just so you realize: it is possible to make fully functional computers by hand using MFR's rednet PRCs that are upgraded. They include many logic features you find in conventional digital logic chips including direct support for seven segment displays, analog meters, and the new Thermal Expansion variable-light-output lamps!

RedPower 2 adds a few other things you might want to replace. For example, the humble canvas bag! We're using Backpacks as a substitute. You may also want to use Gregtech's alloy furnace if you liked 1-step alloy-ification.

You may also be interested in the Universal Elecrticity pack if you'd like a more faithful representation of electricity like RP2 provided. Interestingly, UE's stuff plays very well with other power systems, and many mods in Ultimate can directly consume UE energy. Further, UE's Mekanism mod provides Energy Cubes, which are universal power acceptors (can accept any type of power but Factorization which the author claims to want to support) and outputs to whatever type the red side is connected to, using standard conversion ratios. UE also can be used to generate steam with many of its power systems, and claims to have more integration with this feature in the pipe. It's entirely possible to produce a huge sum of MJ from an Atomic Science nuclear reactor.

waitaminute there's a version of mekanism for 1.5.1 that doesn't basically make everything asplode when trying to run the game? still relying solely on powerconverters because it supports everything but blutricity.

also how are you rigging mfr rednet to enable the old two piston stack doors with levers on basic blocks? afaik detecting signals from things like bricks that are redstone active doesn't work yet(and thus likewise for pressure plates). as an aside on that do you happen to know where the prc owners manual text is buried in mfr? i'd really like to open it for perusal on a second display instead of just in game book gui.

 

[KirinDave]

waitaminute there's a version of mekanism for 1.5.1 that doesn't basically make everything asplode when trying to run the game? still relying solely on powerconverters because it supports everything but blutricity.

Yeah there is. The newest mekanism works, what you need is the right BasicComponents to get rid of that error. Not sure why. Sure it's a dumb reason.

I was clued by this mod's thread that you need this build of basiccomponents.

also how are you rigging mfr rednet to enable the old two piston stack doors with levers on basic blocks?

Transition to redstone anyways? I have immibis microblocks, so I'll use the traditional redstone in many cases since I can cover it up even in 1.5.1. Another popular solution: sticky piston with redstone block.

afaik detecting signals from things like bricks that are redstone active doesn't work yet(and thus likewise for pressure plates). as an aside on that do you happen to know where the prc owners manual text is buried in mfr? i'd really like to open it for perusal on a second display instead of just in game book gui.

Use NEI to find it. It's like a shapeless recipe: a book, a plastic sheet, and a pile of redstone dust. It is totally epic.

 

[steelblueskies]

heh i meant the text the ingame book is pulling. tired of window swapping ingame trying to read the ingame version

thanks for the pointer on basiccomponents though. will take a look through.

 

[power crystals]

also how are you rigging mfr rednet to enable the old two piston stack doors with levers on basic blocks? afaik detecting signals from things like bricks that are redstone active doesn't work yet(and thus likewise for pressure plates). as an aside on that do you happen to know where the prc owners manual text is buried in mfr? i'd really like to open it for perusal on a second display instead of just in game book gui.

I saw you asked the same question in my MCF thread, but not everybody reads that one. MFR RedNet doesn't connect to vanilla blocks known to have no native redstone behavior (so stone, brick, dirt, etc) for performance reasons - every connected face gets updated when the power level changes, and it has to look at every node when the power level needs to be recalculated. This does break that specific case, though. I'll have to think about what I want to do here, because the answer is non-trivial. In the meantime, using a redstone torch/repeater/dust (dust may behave oddly until builds as of last night) to bridge the block to the cable will work the way you want it to at the cost of making things one block bigger.

edit: And the book text is only in MFR's source code: https://github.com/powercrystals/Mi...ctoryreloaded/block/ItemBlockRedNetLogic.java but it's probably not in a format that's easy to read unless you reformat it first.

 

[KirinDave]

I saw you asked the same question in my MCF thread, but not everybody reads that one. MFR RedNet doesn't connect to vanilla blocks known to have no native redstone behavior (so stone, brick, dirt, etc) for performance reasons - every connected face gets updated when the power level changes, and it has to look at every node when the power level needs to be recalculated. This does break that specific case, though. I'll have to think about what I want to do here, because the answer is non-trivial. In the meantime, using a redstone torch/repeater/dust (dust may behave oddly until builds as of last night) to bridge the block to the cable will work the way you want it to at the cost of making things one block bigger.

edit: And the book text is only in MFR's source code: https://github.com/powercrystals/Mi...ctoryreloaded/block/ItemBlockRedNetLogic.java but it's probably not in a format that's easy to read unless you reformat it first.

Not a great place for a feature request, I know. But. Could we have a config blacklist for MFR Rednet connections? "Please do not connect to these itemIDs". Membership testing in intsets that probably will never have memberships over double digits is cheap!

Our server has Underground biomes and this, among other mods like Forestry, means a lot of weird and superfluous connections.

As tedious as it is for a modpack configurator, I think it's probably your best solution.

Also, unlimited kudos for RedNet Controller. I saw the 7-segment-signal driver and nearly died with happiness.

 

[power crystals]

Not a great place for a feature request, I know. But. Could we have a config blacklist for MFR Rednet connections? "Please do not connect to these itemIDs". Membership testing in intsets that probably will never have memberships over double digits is cheap!

Our server has Underground biomes and this, among other mods like Forestry, means a lot of weird and superfluous connections.

As tedious as it is for a modpack configurator, I think it's probably your best solution.

Also, unlimited kudos for RedNet Controller. I saw the 7-segment-signal driver and nearly died with happiness.

Well the real answer is to tell those modders to support the API

But yeah. That's already on the todo, scheduled for 2.6; it should be in the betas fairly soon. It would have made into 2.5.2 (out minutes ago) but I wanted to get that stable in time for a certain other modpack who have a release coming up soon.

 

[KirinDave]

Well the real answer is to tell those modders to support the API

I _really_ want to write a mod to bind your control logic to Atomic Science. It'd be AMAZING. I just gotta find the time.

 

[power crystals]

BTW, build #650 (tagged 2.5.3 beta for now) has that blacklist option: http://build.technicpack.net/job/MineFactoryReloaded/650/

 

[KirinDave]

BTW, build #650 (tagged 2.5.3 beta for now) has that blacklist option: http://build.technicpack.net/job/MineFactoryReloaded/650/

Nice! Is it pretty safe to use?

 

[power crystals]

Yeah. Third-digit betas are usually all bugfixes (sometimes we throw in random oddities like 2.5.2's enchantment router). Second-digit betas are more likely to be weird and/or break between versions.

 

[Emy]

It's only been about 2 hours since the last stable release, so we haven't had much time to break everything. Changes since then: Enchantment router has a "match levels" mode, spyglass displays levels, minor bug avoidance for nonstandard buckets, and of course the rednet cable blacklist.

Standard beta disclaimer applies: it might explode your whole internet! The entire thing! (But yeah it seems like it should be fine.)

edit: I am too slow at posting