As Eyamaz and I have started looking towards official 1.7 modpack builds we have noticed many changes in MC mods. We are not comfortable with continuing to attempt to balance multiple energy systems against each other in every pack. Packs always end up feeling like they have one main energy system and every other system is just on the side. There are also less mods with native support for only IC2 or BC at this point. Most mods have swapped to or are at least compatible with RF. Going forward to 1.7 modpacks our main energy system will be RF. We may make packs that focus on other energy systems as well depending on how viable it is to find enough addons for other energy systems. With the ID change in 1.7 it will not be nearly as difficult for players to drop mods into the packs after creation or even to combine many of the packs into 1 large pack. This is nothing against IC2 or BC. Most of the modding community has adopted or added support for RF and for the first time in quite a while modded minecraft has a nearly universally accepted energy system.More and more it feels off to place a few mods that don't support RF in packs that are mainly powered by RF.
What this means:
Magic 3 of course won't have an energy system unless someone adds a magic energy system. The plan is to make a magic themed pack that isn't just a collection of every magic mod we can find. Lite3 will probably closely resemble Lite2. A new to be named pack or packs may be created to showcase the other energy system mods. More quest books and more maps will be making an appearance in 1.7 since we won't need to spend so much time dealing with ID conflicts. As we get closer to having official 1.7 packs we will be providing you with more information and lore. Right now Eyamaz and I are making our modlists and planning the themes for 1.7.
We realize this decision may upset some die hard traditionalists. However the modpack team has decided to move forwards with the rest of the MC community. For those that absolutely have to have every mod in a single pack 1.7 will make it possible for you to do so on your own. Again this does not mean that non-RF mods will not be in any packs or that there will not be non-RF packs, just that the packs will be focused on a single energy system each. Packs will be based around showcasing different mods.
Edit to Add: The only mods not natively supporting RF one way or another are IC2, BC, RailCraft and Forestry. And the last 3 can be powered by RF through conversion.
Edit To Add: This only concerns the power producing and consuming mods, not mods like CC or TC4, or Biomes etc.
Edit to Add:
Basically this whole thing boils down to simple cause and effect
Edit: Below are a list of the questions the FTB Team has answered in the thread:
If they have native RF support its possible, Mek more than the UE mods. Cal's update cycle is insane to keep up with for packs.
No. The goal is to make packs that can be combined into 1 "all the things" pack if people really feel the need. We may release one, but it will not be the main pack(s)
Considering how many mods are available. No. It would be more limiting to keep trying to do the traditional multi-energy packs.
I know its not. Its kinda not really any specific system. Which means it would fall under does it add enough things not added by other mods we decide to use.
Oh quests will be appearing in a couple more and different packs. I'm not stopping with 1 pack for quests ... I has plans.
And like the first post said EU will probably end up being in a pack based around IC2 and its addons. Its the only energy system other than RF that has enough mods to possibly build a pack around just it. The concern is whether or not enough IC2 addons will update.
Depends what packs it fits in.[DOUBLEPOST=1398480788][/DOUBLEPOST]
That's because someone was all "RC is a universal energy system"
There is only 1 flagship pack in any version of MC. There are several "backwater" packs that have as much if not more players. We cannot keep putting every mod in as many packs as possible. It leads to way too many bugs and issues.[DOUBLEPOST=1398481113][/DOUBLEPOST]
It will have whatever Dire puts on the list.
{In response to concerns raised about IC2 and BC dying}
Basically 5 mods do not support RF natively. IC2, Buildcraft, Forestry, Factorization and Railcraft. Continuing to place mods in all the packs that do not support RF makes no sense. We end up going "everything can be run off this one power system, except these 1 or 2 mods which need their own thing." MJ can fit because the conduits convert to MJ. But IC2 and FZ just don't fit. When IC2 and BC were the mods that everyone used for power the packs were built around them. Now mod devs have mostly moved to RF. Continuing to include things because "tradition" is silly politics and leads to stagnation. It leads to perfectly good mods getting overlooked as people cling to the "traditional" By splitting the energy systems up into seperate packs we allow for more variation. Just think: a steampunk factory pack with Steve's Carts, Steve's Factory Manager, BC and FZ, a High-tech pack with IC2, and GT,a magic pack with TT, Forbidden Magic, and many of the Thaumcraft addons, an RPG pack with Witchery and Botania, new mappacks based around different mods with tutorials and quests. (No this is not a list of the packs we are definitely creating) Once we stop trying to shove all the mods into one pack and dealing with the tech support nightmare we have more room to branch out. And we leave room for the community to make packs that aren't just the same as our packs with 1 or 2 differences.
IC2 and BC aren't going to die just because we move them out of a few packs and into separate packs.
MFR and AE yes. The others will go where they fit. We won't be doing this : 6 modpacks with practically the same mods except for one or 2 thing. Instead we will be making packs where only a few mods repeat across packs. And the packs can easily be recombined into one large pack by people wanting that. This puts the more intricate mods in packs where they aren't up against easier to learn/use mods.
RC and BC will be somewhere. Forestry on the other hand... I love bees, bees are the only modded thing I have added code for. Bees are amazing. However Sir S hasn't been doing Forestry since the start of 1.6. Myst and CJ were maintaining it in 1.6. Player updated it for 1.7. Development on Forestry has halted which makes me incredibly sad. BC is starting to get some changes and new content but there is very little it can do that can't be done by quite a few other mods at this point.
For 1.6- 1.7 the mods in question are maintained by:
IC2 - Player
Forestry - Player (1.7), Mysterious Ages (1.6) Covert Jaguar
BC - Covert Jaguar, SpaceToad (1.7)
RC- Covert Jaguar
Magic Bees and Extra Bees are unlikely to be updated ( I hope they are but its unlikely)
It is very concerning that the original devs of all but RC have seemed to lose interest. Honestly if SirS or Mysterious Ages was to come back/maintain Forestry there would be less concern about it but CJ is now responsible for several very different code bases. SpaceToad is back now but he may disappear again. Putting that much faith and basing our packs off 4 major mods maintained by 2 people just doesn't make sense. If I knew Java better I would volunteer to maintain the bees mods. I love them. I would still volunteer to try if SirS was crazy enough to let me . If something goes wrong Forestry is going to take second fiddle to RC for development. If SpaceToad leaves again we'll have the same problem with BC.
{pertinent question from Reddit}
It was in 1 pack in 1.4 that was a very good pack. It was in a 1.5 pack that was the least popular pack from any FTB version. It has never been a major part of FTB packs except in the minds of the GT fans. And no we have already stated we will leave the tech support nightmare of GT packs to third party packs.
Our current universal configs don't do that. And no. Pushing our view of mod balance into a universal config is not something we would be comfortable doing. Aside from ID's config changes should be left to modpack creators based on what they are doing with an individual pack.
None of the mods are vanishing. And the packs will be able to be easily combined. However, there are large numbers of mods available now that didn't exist in previous versions. Continuing to make 3 packs that are practically identical and use the same group of mods is silly. Instead we can have 3 seperate packs based on the main energy systems and explore more new mods. This way people can play the pack they like or combine them into one pack. It lowers the tech support burden and is just simpler. More mods are compatible with RF than MJ or EU right now. RF doesn't require the existence of TE3 to exist, which means in the unfortunate event of more devs disappearing our packs can stay stable.
No matter how we worded this announcement plenty of people were going to misunderstand it. However we would have gotten more blowback if we had made the change without warning people. And most of the community agrees with the move. If it helps think of it as the main packs are Beginner , and the packs based on other systems will be Intermediate and Advanced.
What this means:
- Mods we will be looking at most closely for inclusion in many 1.7 official packs will be mods with native RF support.
- Mods without native RF support but with native MJ support will be considered based on what they add that isn't present in the other mods and which packs they best fit the theme of.
- EU mods will probably be in their own pack assuming there are enough of them to fill out a pack that is significantly different from the main packs
- Our goal going forwards is to keep a consistent feel in the packs. 1 energy system per pack not 3 or 4 or 5.
Magic 3 of course won't have an energy system unless someone adds a magic energy system. The plan is to make a magic themed pack that isn't just a collection of every magic mod we can find. Lite3 will probably closely resemble Lite2. A new to be named pack or packs may be created to showcase the other energy system mods. More quest books and more maps will be making an appearance in 1.7 since we won't need to spend so much time dealing with ID conflicts. As we get closer to having official 1.7 packs we will be providing you with more information and lore. Right now Eyamaz and I are making our modlists and planning the themes for 1.7.
We realize this decision may upset some die hard traditionalists. However the modpack team has decided to move forwards with the rest of the MC community. For those that absolutely have to have every mod in a single pack 1.7 will make it possible for you to do so on your own. Again this does not mean that non-RF mods will not be in any packs or that there will not be non-RF packs, just that the packs will be focused on a single energy system each. Packs will be based around showcasing different mods.
Edit to Add: The only mods not natively supporting RF one way or another are IC2, BC, RailCraft and Forestry. And the last 3 can be powered by RF through conversion.
Edit To Add: This only concerns the power producing and consuming mods, not mods like CC or TC4, or Biomes etc.
Edit to Add:
Basically this whole thing boils down to simple cause and effect
- Cause: More mods are RF compatible than not
- Effect: More packs can be made with RF mods
- Cause: More intricate power systems are overshadowed in traditional packs
- Effect: Put the intricate power systems in packs where they will shine
Edit: Below are a list of the questions the FTB Team has answered in the thread:
If they have native RF support its possible, Mek more than the UE mods. Cal's update cycle is insane to keep up with for packs.
No. The goal is to make packs that can be combined into 1 "all the things" pack if people really feel the need. We may release one, but it will not be the main pack(s)
Considering how many mods are available. No. It would be more limiting to keep trying to do the traditional multi-energy packs.
I know its not. Its kinda not really any specific system. Which means it would fall under does it add enough things not added by other mods we decide to use.
It'll probably will be fine.
One of the Forgecraft streamers mentioned also that IC is big enough to support a pack on it's own.
Personally i'll go for RF.
I do wish there would be another pack with quests. But then not over a void.
Oh quests will be appearing in a couple more and different packs. I'm not stopping with 1 pack for quests ... I has plans.
And like the first post said EU will probably end up being in a pack based around IC2 and its addons. Its the only energy system other than RF that has enough mods to possibly build a pack around just it. The concern is whether or not enough IC2 addons will update.
Depends what packs it fits in.[DOUBLEPOST=1398480788][/DOUBLEPOST]
That's because someone was all "RC is a universal energy system"
There is only 1 flagship pack in any version of MC. There are several "backwater" packs that have as much if not more players. We cannot keep putting every mod in as many packs as possible. It leads to way too many bugs and issues.[DOUBLEPOST=1398481113][/DOUBLEPOST]
It will have whatever Dire puts on the list.
{In response to concerns raised about IC2 and BC dying}
Basically 5 mods do not support RF natively. IC2, Buildcraft, Forestry, Factorization and Railcraft. Continuing to place mods in all the packs that do not support RF makes no sense. We end up going "everything can be run off this one power system, except these 1 or 2 mods which need their own thing." MJ can fit because the conduits convert to MJ. But IC2 and FZ just don't fit. When IC2 and BC were the mods that everyone used for power the packs were built around them. Now mod devs have mostly moved to RF. Continuing to include things because "tradition" is silly politics and leads to stagnation. It leads to perfectly good mods getting overlooked as people cling to the "traditional" By splitting the energy systems up into seperate packs we allow for more variation. Just think: a steampunk factory pack with Steve's Carts, Steve's Factory Manager, BC and FZ, a High-tech pack with IC2, and GT,a magic pack with TT, Forbidden Magic, and many of the Thaumcraft addons, an RPG pack with Witchery and Botania, new mappacks based around different mods with tutorials and quests. (No this is not a list of the packs we are definitely creating) Once we stop trying to shove all the mods into one pack and dealing with the tech support nightmare we have more room to branch out. And we leave room for the community to make packs that aren't just the same as our packs with 1 or 2 differences.
IC2 and BC aren't going to die just because we move them out of a few packs and into separate packs.
MFR and AE yes. The others will go where they fit. We won't be doing this : 6 modpacks with practically the same mods except for one or 2 thing. Instead we will be making packs where only a few mods repeat across packs. And the packs can easily be recombined into one large pack by people wanting that. This puts the more intricate mods in packs where they aren't up against easier to learn/use mods.
RC and BC will be somewhere. Forestry on the other hand... I love bees, bees are the only modded thing I have added code for. Bees are amazing. However Sir S hasn't been doing Forestry since the start of 1.6. Myst and CJ were maintaining it in 1.6. Player updated it for 1.7. Development on Forestry has halted which makes me incredibly sad. BC is starting to get some changes and new content but there is very little it can do that can't be done by quite a few other mods at this point.
For 1.6- 1.7 the mods in question are maintained by:
IC2 - Player
Forestry - Player (1.7), Mysterious Ages (1.6) Covert Jaguar
BC - Covert Jaguar, SpaceToad (1.7)
RC- Covert Jaguar
Magic Bees and Extra Bees are unlikely to be updated ( I hope they are but its unlikely)
It is very concerning that the original devs of all but RC have seemed to lose interest. Honestly if SirS or Mysterious Ages was to come back/maintain Forestry there would be less concern about it but CJ is now responsible for several very different code bases. SpaceToad is back now but he may disappear again. Putting that much faith and basing our packs off 4 major mods maintained by 2 people just doesn't make sense. If I knew Java better I would volunteer to maintain the bees mods. I love them. I would still volunteer to try if SirS was crazy enough to let me
. If something goes wrong Forestry is going to take second fiddle to RC for development. If SpaceToad leaves again we'll have the same problem with BC.{pertinent question from Reddit}
It was in 1 pack in 1.4 that was a very good pack. It was in a 1.5 pack that was the least popular pack from any FTB version. It has never been a major part of FTB packs except in the minds of the GT fans. And no we have already stated we will leave the tech support nightmare of GT packs to third party packs.
Our current universal configs don't do that. And no. Pushing our view of mod balance into a universal config is not something we would be comfortable doing. Aside from ID's config changes should be left to modpack creators based on what they are doing with an individual pack.
Hmmm. From all the hubbub on Twitter and Reddit and this thread, you guys could potentially have worded this announcement a little better...
I'm not too great a fan of this step. Focusing on flavor and consistency can be an argument, but it shouldn't be the end-all argument (certainly not when it is used to justify excluding mods). When building modpacks myself I am a huge stickler for consistency, yet I have never found myself unable to reconcile multiple different power systems in one set. And honestly? When I first got into modded Minecraft back in 1.2, the great variety in available in systems was touted as an enriching addition to the game and a testament of modder's creativity, even despite the fact that it was a nightmare to even get Minecraft to start up error-free. I don't know what happened over time to change this to "the lowest common denominator is the only thing worth having". But then again, I'm currently on a bit of a hiatus from Minecraft, based both on RL taking up a huge amount of time right now, and on the long and ardous update process that 1.7 brought with it and 1.8 probably will bring again. I've not been privy to the mood of the community for a good while.
All I know is, I would feel less bummed out by this step if RF wasn't such a thoroughly boring system. I've tried the 1.6 release of Thermal Expansion, and honestly, I've never seen less gameplay value in anything power-related, short of vanilla's "put coal into this slot in the furnace". It was so boring, I didn't even touch RF after building the basic six processing machines and a single dynamo (which was more than enough for all of them combined). I'm an engineer through and through, and this system is treating me like I'm an elementary school kid, and a particularly slow one at that. You can be fairly sure that any tech modpack based solely around RF will be the last one I ever download - not out of spite or principle or anything like that, but out of the simple fact that playing it would bore me to tears.
I do agree with the points being made on the exodus of legacy modders and the maintaining of their projects. Too many former cornerstones of the modding scene are essentially just kept alive on their status quo today, by too small a group of people with too much to do, and it's agonizing to watch for the fans of said mods. SpaceToad's return to Buildcraft is the one exception that bucks the trend, but sometimes exceptions only serve to confirm the norm. Again, I really don't know what happened - and I certainly don't fault people like for example Sengir for feeling nothing but contempt for the community after seeing the kind of abuse leveled at him for daring to make the mod he wanted to make - but I don't feel this trend is doing modded Minecraft any favors.
Right, going back to my hidey-hole in the ground now...
None of the mods are vanishing. And the packs will be able to be easily combined. However, there are large numbers of mods available now that didn't exist in previous versions. Continuing to make 3 packs that are practically identical and use the same group of mods is silly. Instead we can have 3 seperate packs based on the main energy systems and explore more new mods. This way people can play the pack they like or combine them into one pack. It lowers the tech support burden and is just simpler. More mods are compatible with RF than MJ or EU right now. RF doesn't require the existence of TE3 to exist, which means in the unfortunate event of more devs disappearing our packs can stay stable.
No matter how we worded this announcement plenty of people were going to misunderstand it. However we would have gotten more blowback if we had made the change without warning people. And most of the community agrees with the move. If it helps think of it as the main packs are Beginner , and the packs based on other systems will be Intermediate and Advanced.
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