Not much of a reason given that several GT machines accept liquid from pipes and even IC2 geothermals can have lava piped into it. Also, IC2 doesn't have oil or biomass so it's pretty much a machine designed to work with forestry and BC rather than IC2 to begin with.well, TE with liquid transposer is pretty much a savior in this case.
however lack of liquid storage is quite a bummer, but its probably because IC2 doesnt have any pipe mechanics on its own.
but i feel without such requirement it wouldnt be so fun to automate that thing.
Thoughts on MFR
- Thread starter GPuzzle
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Does it matter? Bio Reactors are dirt cheap at the price. No power requirement either. No diamond investment, like you would need for oil-based Fuel for the refinery. No power requirements either, and the Refinery is a power-hog. You've got the price of a Machine Block, I happen to use the TE recipes, so that's a gold and four iron as your primary costs. Big flippin' deal.
I don't even include IC2 in my mod pack, much less GregTech.
Ahh, lag, there's another difference. Bio Generator is much less lag-inducing than all those engines, due to a lack of block updates and moving parts. You're just putting more points in my favor.
Space, cost, lag, fuel efficiency during startup phase... the default settings had Bio Generators horribly roflstomping all over boilers.The only point which the Boiles had was fuel efficiency AFTER it hits 100%, well... to be honest, you've got to run it for days after hitting that to hit the break-even point, but even so... do you forget that biofuel is created from rewnewable resources? You're going to already be swimming in stacks of biofuel-producing substances just from your MFR factories supplied with fertilizer from your leather factory. Consuming more resources is only a good thing at that point.
Mind you, I'm speaking from the perspective of within the ShneekeyCraft mod pack, rather than any sort of an absolute statement. I'm sure there are situations in which the default setting for MFR bio generators are appropriate. It's just that this mod pack is not one of them.
oil to diesel recipe also has a glycerol and sulfuric acid cells, which are dont seem to be an actual liquids. so i assume that`s the reason.
i do like the way it is, but only when TE is around
oil to diesel recipe also has a glycerol and sulfuric acid cells, which are dont seem to be an actual liquids. so i assume that`s the reason.
i do like the way it is, but only when TE is around
Liquicrafter should be able to do the same as well.. I think.
it can use internal tank to craft recipes that require bucket with liquid and dont consume bucket in process, but cant remember it being able to empty cell to its tank with further extraction. i`ll check this when i can.
Just checked, though it might be possible somehow, but no, it doesn't fill things.
it can fill cell and other vessels, if there is a recipe like: filled bucket+empty cell=filled cell.
Re: bioreactor/BFG balance:
First off, MFR's stuff will always be cheaper to build because we do not have an item infrastructure ala IC2 or TE, but that is why the alternate recipe sets exist. At the end of the day short of jamming netherstars and emerald blocks into every recipe there is only so much I can do. Some people will disagree with me not adding said infrastructure, but we have enough of those and MFR is not designed to be standalone (good luck without any power transport).
For the bioreactor output, it was designed to be used as kind of a garbage disposal for seeds and saplings that could be a viable fuel source if properly automated. The aim was to make it and the BFG in the same ballpark for MJ per input compared to Forestry as they established precedent, but the BFG in 1.4 was barely more useful than a void pipe and Forestry changed their math in 1.5 (as well as breaking the biofuels being naturally interchangable).
As for the 16MJ/t output, it is my opinion that all the other BC power sources are too weak to realistically run a base off, especially as they tend to be rather finicky. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with that but hey; it's configurable for a reason. I expect pack authors (hi shneeky) to make it match their vision.
e: I type gud
First off, MFR's stuff will always be cheaper to build because we do not have an item infrastructure ala IC2 or TE, but that is why the alternate recipe sets exist. At the end of the day short of jamming netherstars and emerald blocks into every recipe there is only so much I can do. Some people will disagree with me not adding said infrastructure, but we have enough of those and MFR is not designed to be standalone (good luck without any power transport).
For the bioreactor output, it was designed to be used as kind of a garbage disposal for seeds and saplings that could be a viable fuel source if properly automated. The aim was to make it and the BFG in the same ballpark for MJ per input compared to Forestry as they established precedent, but the BFG in 1.4 was barely more useful than a void pipe and Forestry changed their math in 1.5 (as well as breaking the biofuels being naturally interchangable).
As for the 16MJ/t output, it is my opinion that all the other BC power sources are too weak to realistically run a base off, especially as they tend to be rather finicky. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with that but hey; it's configurable for a reason. I expect pack authors (hi shneeky) to make it match their vision.
e: I type gud
I for one thank you for this, MJ producer that doesn't need to heat up and all that. Plus only runs when it's needed. I simply love MFR, thank you again!
And just to throw it out there for a possible answer, is there any way to make the Bioreactor work with Biomes O Plenty's saplings/seeds, or would that just make it too easy?
Bio
I don't like bioreactor numbers. There is no need to try to fill it with sufficient number of different materials, because just one farm can produce silly amounts of biofuel. I'd love to properly automate 9 different biofuel sources and be rewarded for it, but now there is just no need for it. If the numbers were different, for example 10-90 or 10-170 per piece instead of 80-160, it would be a lot more interesting. Also not everyone uses premade modpacks and for balancing personal one Forestry solution is the best. You can choose from 4 difficulties ("OP", "Easy", "Normal" and "Hard") and then if you really want, tweak numbers to your liking.
I sort of agree. I run my BFR off two types of saplings and I am so fuel positive there is no point in expanding my storage.
I'd like to second that. Stuff can be "too cheap" if it really don't make any sense anymore to use what's currently there. I mean, power convertors already made making 18 industrial steam engines completely obsolete and now we can do away with boilers too.
It's great if mods add more stuff but it should IMHO not be loads and loads easier / cheaper than what's already there.
And last but not least: making it configurable unfortunately doesn't make any difference. 90% of servers use default configs because for admins supporting all their users with the config changes is too much of a hassle. The default should be sensible.
And just to throw it out there for a possible answer, is there any way to make the Bioreactor work with Biomes O Plenty's saplings/seeds, or would that just make it too easy?
The BOP guys (Amnet specifically) said they were working on the MFR compat stuff a while ago. What happened since then I don't know, you'll need to ask them.
Making that configurable is a reasonable request, though I need to decide if I want to just expose the two endpoints or what. Hmm.
And no, "easy" vs "hard" settings won't happen. I hate it when stuff is that vague - if you want to quickly make stuff harder change the recipe set. The majority of the balance settings are for pack maintainers.
Wood & sapling compatibility is kinda rough right now for everyone.
I think everything could be tunable around an efficiency factor. Like, "How efficient is this compared to the current values used in BC combustion engines" as determined by interrogation or something.
I don't see why every species of tree out there should be usable in crafting recipes, nor why every species of plant should be automatable, it could just be that that particular type of plank is not a suitable material to make a door out off, or a species of plant cannot be grown via "industrial agriculture".
PC, I run my base off 4mj/t via 4 peat fired engines Most of the time all the machines are sitting there doing idle. Admittedly I don't have any major energy users yet (quarries, extra bee machines, force fields, etc, etc). In a previous map I built a solid fuel boiler, then had no use for all that power even with some high energy users.
I guess really if you've designed it for waste materials, 16mj/t is pretty reasonable, but since most people are purposely making farms to feed it, 16mj/t may be too high. I may adjust the config like Shneekey. I love configs that can be adjusted in this way.
In effect it's a bit like the scrapbox lottery. If you use it for waste materials, it's pretty "balanced", make a large scrap farm, then it's "unbalanced".
Regardless, you've given us the toys, and they are configurable, which is a massive thumbs up!
PC, I run my base off 4mj/t via 4 peat fired engines
Most of the time all the machines are sitting there doing idle. Admittedly I don't have any major energy users yet (quarries, extra bee machines, force fields, etc, etc). In a previous map I built a solid fuel boiler, then had no use for all that power even with some high energy users.I guess really if you've designed it for waste materials, 16mj/t is pretty reasonable, but since most people are purposely making farms to feed it, 16mj/t may be too high. I may adjust the config like Shneekey. I love configs that can be adjusted in this way.
In effect it's a bit like the scrapbox lottery. If you use it for waste materials, it's pretty "balanced", make a large scrap farm, then it's "unbalanced".
Regardless, you've given us the toys, and they are configurable, which is a massive thumbs up!
if was on par with some GT fanatics, id say " find another server" "or use the bloody config, it higly configurable!"
but i`m not, and i just gonna say that configs are for people who put mod pack together.
if you`re playing a mod pack, that has default MFR settings and you dont like em, you`re probably not gonna find a server that has config appropriate for you, so changing the mod pack or playing singleplayer with tweaked config are your options.
Eh, I dislike that kind of global scale for the same reason as above. If I'm going to provide that kind of config it will be fairly fine-grained.
I do like the idea of lowering the initial efficiency - what I'm getting from this feedback is that the 'easy' option is too powerful, not that the full 9-slot mode is too good.
I think that your design philiosophy is a very strong one, and I really approve. The cost with a Boiler is a) it's a multiblock structure requiring gated resources (steel), but that only produces the steam... you'll still need a whole pile of engines running off of it which are each purchased separately, and without them, your big steam boiler is nothing but a fuel-consuming paperweight. I really don't think you should even bother trying to match something like that.
Honestly, I like how the Bio Reactor works, particularly vs how Forestry now does it. People complain about TC3's research system, and Forestry's breeding system is just as big a pain to do... and it's pretty much required to get any kind of biomass out of the system.
Really, I'm also a huge fan of how efficient it is, and that it scales in efficiency with the more different types. That makes it a lot more interesting than just 'dump your seeds and go'. Or rather, you -can- do that, but if you want to get the most bang for your buck, you are probably wanting to have several different types. Personally, I'm a huge fan of using potatoes, carrots, seeds, barley seeds, oak saplings, birch saplings, and Spruce saplings. That's seven types right there, without even trying very hard. Potatoes and Carrots are used in several recipes, wheat is needed to keep my leather factory running smoothly and the seeds are just a necessary byproduct, barley is just easy to produce, then three different types of wood so I have options when creating and decorating construction projects.
And I, for one, thank you profusely for the degree of customization you offer in your mod! Currently, I've got TE compatible recipes enabled, with 'vanilla' disabled (gregtech isn't even an option, I don't have IC2, much less GT, in my mod pack), and Bio Generators producing 6 MJ/t.
I do understand where you are coming from, though. With all the power draws in a typical base (all those harvesters, planters, fertilizers, the breeder and grinder, plus my ore refining system and ME Network), a single old-school engine just won't cut it. However, in my specific mod pack, it was just 'too good' compared to any other engine, and there was a feeling of 'why bother with anything else'.
Since I like to have viable options for players, I toned it down a bit, but still kept it relevant. After all, it's a direct replacement for Combustion engines, with less lag due to less animating parts, and a better renewable fuel source. The whole 'doesn't blow up' thing is another good point there. However, I also wanted to reward players who wanted to expend the resources on on a boiler to get something for their resources, time, and effort.
However, as I've said before, this is merely what I've done for my mod pack, to try and present my players a plethora of equally viable options for power generation, and not any kind of blanket 'ZOMG OP NERF!' statment which would be ludicrous to make in any sort of an absolute sense. I've also seen mod packs which go the other route, and just double or triple the MJ output of the other engines and leave the Bio Reactor at default as the 'standard' of power generation (which is something I rather strongly considered at one point).
The important thing to take away here is: My players are reporting that they really enjoy MFR, and are happy it is in the mod pack. Also that I, both as a player and a mod pack compiler, cannot endorse this mod strongly enough. Heh, that sounds like something at the end of a political ad...
"I am Shneekey, compiler of the ShneekeCraft mod pack, and I approve of this mod."