Yes! I forgot to mention ID's drying basin. Quick conversion too.
Oddly enough, I don't seem to get pork from the trap.... But that wouldn't be a problem for Alexiy
Those little things that irk you about Minecraft
- Thread starter Ripley
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Yes! I forgot to mention ID's drying basin. Quick conversion too.
Oddly enough, I don't seem to get pork from the trap.... But that wouldn't be a problem for Alexiy
Minecraft 12.2 specific (I assume, don't keep track of all these "updates")
After installing latest version to proof of concept a modpack idea, I was appalled to discover tutorial popups (press WASD to move..., You've collected X and unlocked more recipes, press E...). The horror to discover no option to turn that rubbish off in game options!!!
Plus, Llamas? Oh, and evokers? and the hundreds of misc stuff that looks totally pointless (from a mod pack player point of view)
Seriously don't like the direction MC is going. Doesn't feel like Minecraft anymore.
Mod specific - Why oh why oh why do mod makers have to keep moving or renaming their texture files as they update their mod? Still the same texture. As I maintain a texture pack, it's a royal pain to keep track. Nothing wrong with where they had the textures originally, and no obvious reason to move them to a subfolder, or rename the file.
After installing latest version to proof of concept a modpack idea, I was appalled to discover tutorial popups (press WASD to move..., You've collected X and unlocked more recipes, press E...). The horror to discover no option to turn that rubbish off in game options!!!
Plus, Llamas? Oh, and evokers? and the hundreds of misc stuff that looks totally pointless (from a mod pack player point of view)
Seriously don't like the direction MC is going. Doesn't feel like Minecraft anymore.
Mod specific - Why oh why oh why do mod makers have to keep moving or renaming their texture files as they update their mod? Still the same texture. As I maintain a texture pack, it's a royal pain to keep track. Nothing wrong with where they had the textures originally, and no obvious reason to move them to a subfolder, or rename the file.
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The tutorial popups are a nightmare. Ugh.
Llamas and Illagers, I really don't mind - you hit the nail on the head there, they seem pointless to YOU because you've got lots of other options. But you can't expect them to not make things more exciting for the large vanilla player base!
I quite like the conceit behind the Woodland Mansions, in that you can buy a special map to direct you to one of those mansions, and once you're inside its a HUGE multi-storey building with loads of treasure and (for vanilla) interesting things to see! Its a proper dungeon type thing, in the same way the Ocean Monument is, but without the pain in the neck that being underwater and unable to mine presents.
As for llamas, again there's a good vanilla reason for them - when you leash a llama, other llamas around it will form a train, allowing you to lead a line of them. Why is this useful? Because you can put chests on them! Mass transport. Yeah, we've got backpacks and stuff, so its not a problem for us, but for vanilla, its useful! Shulker boxes have limited space - a player can only carry so many. Being able to transport a bunch of stuff by llama? Its an interesting idea and could be useful!
One thing that bothers me about Mansions that they happen to spawn very far from player, sometimes few thousand blocks away. This makes cartographers nearly useless to me; I want librarians only. At least they could assign cartographer profession to another villager type...
Given my level of annoyance, maybe this isn't a little thing exactly for me, but here you are: I passionately detest that some mods that are building-and-crafting-oriented gate their high-end content behind hard fights. Most notable example: Botania.
Ah, so there is actually some content for players there. As I said, haven't kept track of all the changes (I think mainly the change in combat system killed my passion in future versions of MC)
Very much agree with this. I'm even not keen on the Wither fight as a gate (but at least in modded there are ways of making it easy, or automating it fully, which is a nice project). I expect boss fights if I've installed adventure theme mods (like Twilight Forest or Aether), but as a tech/magic mod, blah. Thaumcraft had boss fights, but this was the end game toys, which is acceptable. Botania has a fight required just to progress to mid tier, and tbh, the fight is nothing amazing (and the music is so annoying and out of place!).
I understand the complaint, but I actually prefer the idea that some of the better looking, more exotic blocks should be difficult to obtain. Unless your modpack is built for hard-mode mobs, just some basic armoring up will make anything this game throws at you more or less trivial, it just means it takes effort to get the best stuff.
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It could be done like in forestry, where the fancier wood types are all gated by having to go through the genetics game. No boss fights, and still, you have to put time and effort into getting to them.
I know not everyone likes the genetics game, but that is beside the point. The point is, boss fights are not the only way to accomplish what you want.
Speaking of things that good old Forestry does better....
One of the things that irks me about modded MC is pointless tiering.
This is where you use a tool or block, for the sole purpose of being able to get a more powerful version of that tool, repeatedly.
The worst example of this, is fortunately not in MC at all, but it is the 2D game Terraria. That game has over two dozen of tiers of pick-axe, where each tier is strictly superior than the last one with no downsides. Basically, each tier is a bootstrap-tier.
Unfortunately, a lot of minecraft mod makers seem to be under the very wrong impression that making everything in tiers is the way to make a great game.
For example; Lets compare the IC2 jetpack with the simply-jetpacks mod.
There is only one jetpack in IC2*, it is fast enough to be comfortably used in all stages of the game's progress and is balanced by the fact that the player needs to be careful how, when and how often they use it.
Simply jetpacks has 4 jetpacks, ordered in tiers, and each higher tier is more expense to make and superior in every other way than the last. Once you have a higher tier, the lower tier one is basically junk that waste your computer memory and icon-space in NEI/JEI just by being registered at all.
The lower tier ones are deliberately crippled in speed just to make the mid tiers more useful in comparison. The higher tier ones are effectively OP to justify their end-game-ness and super high cost.
Even vanilla minecraft isn't that bad (although by no means perfect) The only real bootstrap tier is wood, and that is unavoidable because you need it to mine your first stone. And while most people would probably want to upgrade to a diamond pick-axe quickly, there are cases where you would want to revert back to a stone pick. For example, in the nether, where the speed of a diamond pick can be dangerous.
I wish modders would learn from the way forestry does tiers. The Bee-house, apiary, and alveary, are all uniquely useful in their own way, such that even if you have the higher tier, there are still uses for the lower tiers. There is a sense of progress, but never a sense of being restricted until you get to the end. And no useless items you would only use until you get something better. You can even get the workhorse-tier right away if you trade with the villager, and yet, this is not OP.
One could argue, that I'm getting tired, or tiers...
notes:
*(not counting the fuel based jetpack vs electric, but those aren't tiers)
Greetings SevenMassIt could be done like in forestry, where the fancier wood types are all gated by having to go through the genetics game. No boss fights, and still, you have to put time and effort into getting to them.
I know not everyone likes the genetics game, but that is beside the point. The point is, boss fights are not the only way to accomplish what you want.
Speaking of things that good old Forestry does better....
One of the things that irks me about modded MC is pointless tiering.
This is where you use a tool or block, for the sole purpose of being able to get a more powerful version of that tool, repeatedly.
The worst example of this, is fortunately not in MC at all, but it is the 2D game Terraria. That game has over two dozen of tiers of pick-axe, where each tier is strictly superior than the last one with no downsides. Basically, each tier is a bootstrap-tier.
Unfortunately, a lot of minecraft mod makers seem to be under the very wrong impression that making everything in tiers is the way to make a great game.
For example; Lets compare the IC2 jetpack with the simply-jetpacks mod.
There is only one jetpack in IC2*, it is fast enough to be comfortably used in all stages of the game's progress and is balanced by the fact that the player needs to be careful how, when and how often they use it.
Simply jetpacks has 4 jetpacks, ordered in tiers, and each higher tier is more expense to make and superior in every other way than the last. Once you have a higher tier, the lower tier one is basically junk that waste your computer memory and icon-space in NEI/JEI just by being registered at all.
The lower tier ones are deliberately crippled in speed just to make the mid tiers more useful in comparison. The higher tier ones are effectively OP to justify their end-game-ness and super high cost.
Even vanilla minecraft isn't that bad (although by no means perfect) The only real bootstrap tier is wood, and that is unavoidable because you need it to mine your first stone. And while most people would probably want to upgrade to a diamond pick-axe quickly, there are cases where you would want to revert back to a stone pick. For example, in the nether, where the speed of a diamond pick can be dangerous.
I wish modders would learn from the way forestry does tiers. The Bee-house, apiary, and alveary, are all uniquely useful in their own way, such that even if you have the higher tier, there are still uses for the lower tiers. There is a sense of progress, but never a sense of being restricted until you get to the end. And no useless items you would only use until you get something better. You can even get the workhorse-tier right away if you trade with the villager, and yet, this is not OP.
One could argue, that I'm getting tired, or tiers...
notes:
*(not counting the fuel based jetpack vs electric, but those aren't tiers)
I think this comes down to a play-style preference. A lot of people genuinely prefer the bootstrap/tiering mechanism you are deriding. By pure definition of reality, that makes it acceptably good game design since those people would be much less happy playing the way you prefer.
Your preferences and mine in that matter are, in fact, totally irrelevant for that argument.
Regarding my (irrelevant) preferences: I love forestry but I'd hate it if everything was forestry-like. It bothers me that there's no sense of technological progression. I just attained Alvearies and....what, they're nothing special you say? There's still a place for my old typewriter-apiaries when I've just developed what should be a laptop? Not for me. I want to know that the big thing I'm working towards is going to make a fundamental positive difference in my base, and ensure all that time was spent for a reason.
(Btw: If you had worded your post as a preference issue, I'd have no grounds to debate here. But you described the tiering as fundamentally inferior, which is fundamentally illogical
)Bats, bats, bats, bats... BATS! AAAAAAAAARGH! Trying to catch one with (insert your choice of mob catching tool) is an exercise in ragemode handling.
Trying to catch one with (insert your choice of mob catching tool) is an exercise in ragemode handling.
Regarding tiers, I don't mind them as long as they are practical.
The jetpack example is good, you tend to find the first tier is nearly a waste of time to use. Why bother coding it in the first place?
Regarding NEI/JEI & resources, what really really really grinds my gears especially after all this time is that we still have X number of mods each having their own Copper Ore, Dust, Ingots, Nuggets, Blocks, etc, etc. Why is there not a uniform "Ore resource" that is referenced by all mods? The oredict "solution" is just a band aid, that requires more resources to function. NEI/JEI would be much cleaner, resource packs would be smaller, and the memory impact of the game would be fractionally less. I think it should be part of forge, with a config to control the generation rate, set to established defaults (as we pretty much know that copper/tin is always common, and found up high, silver/lead rarer further down, etc)
The jetpack example is good, you tend to find the first tier is nearly a waste of time to use. Why bother coding it in the first place?
Regarding NEI/JEI & resources, what really really really grinds my gears especially after all this time is that we still have X number of mods each having their own Copper Ore, Dust, Ingots, Nuggets, Blocks, etc, etc. Why is there not a uniform "Ore resource" that is referenced by all mods? The oredict "solution" is just a band aid, that requires more resources to function. NEI/JEI would be much cleaner, resource packs would be smaller, and the memory impact of the game would be fractionally less. I think it should be part of forge, with a config to control the generation rate, set to established defaults (as we pretty much know that copper/tin is always common, and found up high, silver/lead rarer further down, etc)
I think there's a lot of small issues with a universal ore resource. Developers don't want to be at the mercy of Forge when adding resources. I shouldn't have to get Forge's permission to add a new resource (say Pitcheblende), and then have to argue about why and how its different from Uranium or, god forbid, someone else's pitchblende which functions differently (drops items instead of blocks, etc).
Believe it or not, oredict tidily gives us the ability to solve this problem ourselves. It does leave us with polluted JEI and such, but the good news is that there are tools to clean JEI and tools to unify resources.
Having said everything above: I totally agree with you and I wish there was a central resource collection
Main trouble with your first point is then it's either left to the player to discover they've got 3 different types of the same ore being generated which are handled differently depending on the mod, giving the player an headache, or it gives the modpack maker an headache to work out how to "tidy up" their playground they are designing. (Think back to the "old days", forget the name of the mod that added silver, which for that mod needed to be be as common as dirt, but breaks the rarity of silver in all other mods using it (due to oredict and conflicting mod design/balance) )I think there's a lot of small issues with a universal ore resource. Developers don't want to be at the mercy of Forge when adding resources. I shouldn't have to get Forge's permission to add a new resource (say Pitcheblende), and then have to argue about why and how its different from Uranium or, god forbid, someone else's pitchblende which functions differently (drops items instead of blocks, etc).
Believe it or not, oredict tidily gives us the ability to solve this problem ourselves. It does leave us with polluted JEI and such, but the good news is that there are tools to clean JEI and tools to unify resources.
Having said everything above: I totally agree with you and I wish there was a central resource collection
As you can tell I'm not a massive fan of oredict, I think too much gets registered there when it doesn't need to be. I had to unregister a lot of stuff in my 1.7.10 pack but also register more stuff at the same time to make things nice and tidy.
Oh I totally agree you on the headaches. I'll just say (as someone who's actively working on a pack) that it really IS the pack-dev's rightful headache to keep that stuff clean. We have the tools we need to do it.
(You're right though, this should never be the player's problem. I know a pack is, um, unprofessional when I find multiple types of copper and tin ore in the world)
I think the separation of concern here (oredict vs universal) ensures everyone has the tools to do what they need to do (while, sadly, giving us some rope to hang ourselves with occassionally)
I'm honestly surprised some of the more common ores aren't just built into forge by now. 1500 mods use copper. That number might be a *little* bit made up. But the point is the same. Just put it all right into the forge API, just make it easy enough for mod makers to flag whether or not, say, copper is needed. If it's checked, it'll generate copper. If not, it won't. If two mods both need it, it'll just generate the one kind.
That way you could also just manipulate one config file to determine where everything would spawn.
That way you could also just manipulate one config file to determine where everything would spawn.
Agreed, I shake my head in disgust when I see that in various Let's Plays on YouTube. There should be no need for multiple same type ores to generate. Every mod nowadays has configs to adjust/turn off, and various other mods to unify the generation of ores.
Some people prefer that too.
On the topic of tiering, the primary problem I can forsee with it is when previous tiers become obsolete once that tier is passed. There are multiple easy solutions to this, my favorite of which is to make the machines/items/etc from previous tiers able to operate on par with the new tier. This is what RotaryCraft does - engines are tiered, but machines are not, and will operate at the performance of whatever engine you attach. Additionally, even low-tier engines remain useful in some applications until the very end of the game.
I myself like it when the lower tier item is used in the recipe to make the higher tier one. Then you don't have some obsolete items taking up room in a chest somewhere(Pack Rat here) and it can be seen as you actually just upgrading the old item(swapping out parts and stuff)
I don't know which mod does this, but I've seen something happen in an LP of The Simple Life 2, whereby the ores look different (and seem to be generated so they fit in with the surrounding rock, so soapstone copper ore, greywacke iron ore, that sort of thing; but when they're mined, they all become a single variant of that ore. I think that works quite nicely?