Thermal Expansion Status

[Omicron]

It's actually the mining tree, from Twilight Forest. True, you need to obtain the sapling through exploration, but it is fairly powerful.

It will gradually transpose any and all ore veins around itself upwards, making them swap places with the blocks directly above them, over and over until they reach the surface. You can quite literally plop this thing down somewhere and go away, only to return to a massive mound of ore that keeps growing out of the ground in front of your very eyes as you mine it.

The result is a completely undisturbed underground, no hollows and branch tunnels like the IC2 miner creates. You might have to fill in some dirt at the top in order to counteract the fact that you are removing ore blocks, but that's it. It easily pulls an entire inventory's worth of ore up.

 

[PhilHibbs]

You can't make an ore magnet, perhaps something from extra utilities?

Isn't there a tree in TF that grows in the shape of a huge pickaxe, and pulls ores out of the ground? I saw one on DW20's previous SMP series. I assume it's a TF tree.
*Edit* Damn you, Omicron you ninja!
Hm, I wonder what would happen if I planted one on the roof of someone's base...

 

[Azzanine]

ore magnet from Twilight Forest?

The ore magnet could be considered a machine but I don't really think it's terribly reliable due to it's minimal useage.
Could be talking about the mining tree but that thing is far from destructive as it only drags ore up to the surface to be mined and it usually replaces the dirt around the tree with the ore it pulls up.

I think Unworry hit the nail on the head. IC2 miners are kinda a pain to set up and then power (Oddly enough GT makes this easier with lithium batteries). But they will get almost all the ore in a 9x9 area if you are using an OV scanner in it's slot.
It's only slightly slower then a quarry takeing in 60mjs. it's also very effective on nether ores as it harvests them without aggroing pigs and does not detonate the ore. It can mine TiC's Ardite and Cobalt.
However it won't pick up ores it doesn't recognize like Thaumcraft ore and infused stone. (It will if it's in the way of another ore though.)

 

[Lathanael]

The result is a completely undisturbed underground, no hollows and branch tunnels like the IC2 miner creates. You might have to fill in some dirt at the top in order to counteract the fact that you are removing ore blocks, but that's it. It easily pulls an entire inventory's worth of ore up.

The IC2 miner can replace all the blocks it mined when it has finished mining and is retracting its pipes.

 

[Azzanine]

The IC2 miner can replace all the blocks it mined when it has finished mining and is retracting its pipes.

Well, only if you remember to put a block in while the pipe retracts otherwise you end up with a suprise death pit all the way to bedrock.
Even if you use that filling feature there will still be a myriad of spider like holes the miner used to get to the ore.
But TBH this isn't a biggie.

 

[Omicron]

The IC2 miner can replace all the blocks it mined when it has finished mining and is retracting its pipes.

All the blocks?

I've used IC2 miners quite extensively in the past, and all they filled in upon retracting was the main vertical shaft they drilled down. Basically, every piece of mining pipe was, one by one, replaced with whatever block you gave it. But nothing else.

It did not fill in the side branches and the spaces where ore veins were mined out.

 

[Yusunoha]

to be honest, I never really used the IC2 miner as it was really a pain to get it set up and the radius wasn't that big. though I did try using it in a test world once, but noticed it mined all the blocks in the 9x9 area, but guess I used it wrong then... it'd be awesome though if in the new IC2 version they are working on they could make the IC2 miner more attractive to use... maybe make it a multiblock structure so it can mine a bigger area or something like that?

and I know about the miner tree of Twilight Forest, but from what I read at that time, if you place the sapling down once you don't get it back anymore, so it'd be a one time use only. it also needs to be used at hollow hills for it's full potential, on normal land it wouldn't get alot of ores pulled up. and lastly it doesn't auto-mine the ores, you'd still need to mine them yourself.

but excuse me going offtopic, let's get back on topic with Thermal Expansion.

 

[Omicron]

IC2 experimental already buffed the miner's range considerably (from 9x9 to 13x13, which is slightly more than twice the area).

 

[PhilHibbs]

This change does create a major functionality gap that many people will stumble over. I'd be interested what proportion of FTP pack players use a BC quarry or filler or mining well in conjunction with a TE tesseract. I'd imagine it's quite high. TE isn't going to add mining machines that use its new power framework, that's quite clear. However, it does create a huge gap in the market which can filled in three ways that I can think of: 1) New machine(s) that use Redstone Flux power in a new mod, 2) New machines that store or transmit large amounts of MJ wirelessly, 3) New machines that use some new kind of power. Does the second approach conflict with BuildCraft's design aesthetic? It seems so, otherwise BC would already have batteries and wireless power transmission.

On the plus side, this might get me back to using huge swarms of mining turtles again.

 

[zacseow]

Well let's get back to talking about thermal expansion instead of other mods

 

[Golrith]

to be honest, I never really used the IC2 miner as it was really a pain to get it set up and the radius wasn't that big. though I did try using it in a test world once, but noticed it mined all the blocks in the 9x9 area, but guess I used it wrong then... it'd be awesome though if in the new IC2 version they are working on they could make the IC2 miner more attractive to use... maybe make it a multiblock structure so it can mine a bigger area or something like that?

and I know about the miner tree of Twilight Forest, but from what I read at that time, if you place the sapling down once you don't get it back anymore, so it'd be a one time use only. it also needs to be used at hollow hills for it's full potential, on normal land it wouldn't get alot of ores pulled up. and lastly it doesn't auto-mine the ores, you'd still need to mine them yourself.

but excuse me going offtopic, let's get back on topic with Thermal Expansion.

Just remaining offtopic slightly, but if TE ever had any ore "generation" system it's best approach would be a lava processing system. It already has a way of generating lava from netherrack, and mucking around with lava to extract resources matches the Thermal theme. A side product could be "cracked obisidian" which if pulved could have an extra chance of extra ore dusts. Would allow for construction of a big interlinked machine system.

On topic, a nice "easy" addition would be a block that would take the liquid redstone/ ender/glowstone and cool it back down to it's original item.

 

[RandomMoped]

Well let's get back to talking about thermal expansion instead of other mods

ahahahahahaahha

 

[Golrith]

Well let's get back to talking about thermal expansion instead of other mods

The talk about other mods is because TE currently interacts with all these other mods at some level, so these changes will impact gameplay and server performance at all levels. The discussion is all valid and may help with the future development of said mods.

 

[hotblack desiato]

basically from what I read here and how I understand it: the basic idea behind the api should be that machines (engines, storage and consumers) should easily exchange energy even cross-mod. that was done in the past by buildcrafts system + a large set of mods, some with their own ways of power transportation, others relying on BC or other transportation systems.

and now with the change, apparently some modders are thinking about switching to their own system, because there is no real alternative available (okay, IC2 energy is always possible, and UE too).

so what happens if KL implements his own idea of a power network (like the liquid system, a basic interchange system that fits his needs). and then watch the other modders if they stay with BC, switch to TE or another system or invent their own way.

because when I look at my current world (1.5.2 with a small set of mods IC2, TE, RC, Extra Utilities, BC (mainly because I like the glass tanks), MFR, Netherores, flat bedrock, Twiligh Forest, Dim Doors --- And the rule that automatic mining (except RC tunnel bore) and teleportation of items/liquids are forbidden), I currently use 2 power systems. there is a TE system with a bunch of TE-machines and a IC2 machine set with macerator, extractor, compressor, and MFSU + mass fabricator. MFR machines are hooked up on both of these networks, depending on what is available (no stationwide powernetwork, but when I need one, I will set it up). funnily enough, my IC2-system runs on a geothermal generator, which is supplied with lava through a liquid transposer. I have a big lava filled ravine close to my base, and when I'm mining, I run into lava lakes, which I harvest with IC2-cells. I just don't want to have a tin-eating system.

maybe one day I set up a nuclear reactor, but this reactor will be set to output RC-steam in order to make it a bit more realistic...

so from what I see: it's a good idea to keep the number of different power systems at a minimum. because no one likes 10 different systems inside one base, 2 or 3 is the absolute limit, and I like the concept of MFR, that they don't bother about systems and just accept 3 different types.

the best place for a power system would be inside forge, and it should just give basic ways plus a standard routing system which can be replaced by other modders (no need to invent the wheel a second time, but if someone likes to do that, why not).

I hope you get this done, would be a shame, if that problem causes a situation like in the beginning of modding with tons of incompatible energy systems....

 

[CrissHill]

so from what I see: it's a good idea to keep the number of different power systems at a minimum. because no one likes 10 different systems inside one base, 2 or 3 is the absolute limit, and I like the concept of MFR, that they don't bother about systems and just accept 3 different types.

I have to say that i disagree with this view. Creating powersystems is just as much fun as creating the machines. It's not all about the end result, it's also about the process. If the powersystem is not just-another-lava gen and is something that's well thought out, interesting and fun to build and figure out.. ofcourse it's a great addition.

 

[PhilHibbs]

I have to say that i disagree with this view. Creating powersystems is just as much fun as creating the machines. It's not all about the end result, it's also about the process. If the powersystem is not just-another-lava gen and is something that's well thought out, interesting and fun to build and figure out.. ofcourse it's a great addition.

I partly agree. I only have a minimal IC2 set up to extract rubber and compress coal into diamonds, but my BC power system is five power systems. Lava, Force, MFR Biofuel Generators, Liquid 36HP with 18 ISEs, and charcoal 36HP with 18 ISEs. All gated to turn on when their REC buffers start to deplete, and each REC with two sending tesseracts. I'm contemplating upgrading the sensors so that they wait until they REC is empty and then switch off one of the two sending tesseracts until it recharges. Power systems are fun. I've run out of inspiration as to what else to do in my world, and tinkering with power generation is keeping me going until I come across a new idea.

However, this is multiple redundancy for a single power type. Having to decide how much infrastructure to dedicate to each of two different power systems would change the game quite significantly. As to whether it would be as much fun, I don't know. In my 1.4.7 world, my EU and MJ set-ups were roughly equivalent, and it felt like I was playing two different games, they were competing for my attention, and that's why I went for just one major power system in 1.5.

 

[zacseow]

I think that the forge devs should create a universal energy system for all the modders to use. Although I do understand the modders views about having their own energy systems, I still think that they should all work together to create a universal power system for all of them to use and for other modders to use as well.

 

[hotblack desiato]

However, this is multiple redundancy for a single power type. Having to decide how much infrastructure to dedicate to each of two different power systems would change the game quite significantly. As to whether it would be as much fun, I don't know. In my 1.4.7 world, my EU and MJ set-ups were roughly equivalent, and it felt like I was playing two different games, they were competing for my attention, and that's why I went for just one major power system in 1.5.

that's why my power networks always look like this: one power network, and a second one is integrated as small island-systems into the large one. for example: IC2 nuclear reactor, bunch of MFSUs, secondary power supplies and so for everything. and for systems like forestry machines, these machines are hooked up by using forestries electrical engine. works just fine.

just out of curiosity: your MJ system, was it BC or TE based? I mean the energy conduits...

 

[PhilHibbs]

I think that the forge devs should create a universal energy system for all the modders to use. Although I do understand the modders views about having their own energy systems, I still think that they should all work together to create a universal power system for all of them to use and for other modders to use as well.

Nice idea in theory, but hugely restricting, and entirely not going to happen. IC2 has different voltages and loss-over-distance depending on the cable. BC has machine-based loss and on-demand generation, and used to have a different loss-over-distance mechanic. TE has flat-rate transmission loss. How could one central energy system satisfy all those design aesthetics? A central system would prevent modders from adding challenge to their mods (efficiency, diminishing returns, combinatorial explosion, actual explosion, etc.), and all energy systems would be reduced to the lowest common denominator.

just out of curiosity: your MJ system, was it BC or TE based? I mean the energy conduits...

All TE. I never built BuildCraft energy pipes, I directly connected engines to my crucible and transposer until I could make conduits. That wasn't really a principled decision, I just thought I'd give it a go as an alternative to "wasting" resources transitioning from pipes to conduits.

 

[Omicron]

I'm not convinced that a universal power API has only advantages. There's a refreshing variety in different power systems that such an API would need to allow, or otherwise you risk stifling creativity in favor of sameness.

What KingLemming described further up in this thread is basically an API that simply governs how energy enters, remains in, or leaves a block. That is pretty flexible, and lets everyone implement their own transmission systems, but whether it would be able to marry two really dissimilar systems - like, EU and blutricity - I'm not fully convinced. After all, one of the two sends discrete packets from block to block in a peer-to-peer network defined by cable endpoints and needs to check maximum transmission amounts and trigger receiver or cable destruction, while the other counts every block as a cable and every cable as storage device, works by storage devices exchanging energy with neighbours like a bucket brigade, simulates analog current and needs additional transmission and consumption speed logic depending on current charge level of the block in question. That's a pretty darn big disconnect to bridge seamlessly by an API...