I actually suspect that the Direwolf20 pack may end up picking up Ender IO, specifically because Direwolf20 has made one or two references to being curious about it in his videos. The mod author (CrazyPants), and numerous others helping via the GitHub, are plugging away at getting it ironed out and feature stable as quick as they can. CrazyPants has stated that his inspiration for Ender IO was Thermal Expansion, so hopefully there may end up being an 'MJ-using alternative' to the newly revised Thermal Expansion... if people decide that the do not like another power system.
Thermal Expansion Status
- Thread starter King Lemming
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Well, Direwolf20 is using EnderIO on Forgecraft 2, so if there's eventually a pack based on that...
Also keep in mind that the 1.6 packs are still quite a ways off--there are a TON of mods that still need to update, and then there's back-end things to handle as well.
Well, Direwolf20 is using EnderIO on Forgecraft 2, so if there's eventually a pack based on that...
Also keep in mind that the 1.6 packs are still quite a ways off--there are a TON of mods that still need to update, and then there's back-end things to handle as well.
So does this mean Flipz is going to have to give himself a warning for helping to take the thread off topic again?
(And yes.. Vaygrim and I as well
)Very interesting idea. I think 'SteamPunk' is a genre that is kind of right there under the surface of minecraft gameplay that isn't explored as much as it could be with a lot of mods going to electrical tiers so quickly. I think it would fit well with Vanilla as kind of an 'Arcanum' flavor game that has mechanical and magic combined, whereas now it seems the blending of 'tech' and 'magic' mods seems strained at best. Buildcraft is close and even GregTech now has a steam tier. Is there a better named mod out there for exploring this than TE?
I read 'political' as part of the reasoning and wondered if one of the factors contributing to it taking a while to comment on was the fact it might take some wordsmithing to avoid starting something that wasn't meant to be started. I don't know KL well enough to know if that's a concern.
The merger of tech and magic is part of the idea behind going with Redstone Flux as a system - Redstone itself is basically fairy dust already as far as vanilla Minecraft goes. If you have MFR installed, drink some Glowstone and then a few blocks of Redstone - I'm all for Redstone having some magical properties.
Now, as far as UE, you actually hit on some of the issues already. UE basically came out and said "hey this is stupid, we should unite under a common energy framework." On the surface of it, from a player point of view, that's not a bad thing. Here's where it gets bad:
Technically,
- The makers of this "API" really didn't have any experience creating an API - it was far too specialized and somewhat clunky. Some of the API calls were initially way way too vague - (Object o) is practically never an acceptable argument in a function.
- A companion mod (Basic Components) was essentially necessary to use UE
- Code quality in general was suboptimal, though it has improved
- Numerous repeated breaking changes to the API frustrated a lot of devs that wanted to integrate with UE; CJ and PowerCrystals among them. Even the UE team apparently spent quite a bit of time refactoring internally to handle these kneejerk changes
- Using real life units is somewhat confusing for players; Blutricity actually did it quite well, and it's still kind of an obtuse system
- Frankly, it wasn't all that efficient, lightweight, or stable
- The approach taken of "the status quo is dumb, everyone should support us" is kind of offputting. While it might seem like we're doing the same thing with TE, we aren't requesting or expecting that anyone else make the switch. And we're okay with that - the idea is to make our system awesome and open, and if others want to join, that's cool
- There was some internal conflict amongst the devs at various stages, and from what I have heard, the UE brand was used as leverage instead of an API on a few occasions
- Calclavia can be somewhat abrasive at times, and like it or not, it doesn't matter how technically competent you are, 90% of everything in life is dealing with people. The MFFS takeover fiasco didn't help matters either
Just my 2 cents on it. I won't claim to know the whole story in any way, and I was only briefly involved when they were starting to get it off the ground. It's certainly come a long way, and there are some neat mods, but I think the confluence of factors will forever keep it as another standard in a growing sea of standards, rather than the Alpha and Omega of Minecraft power generation.
Honestly, a quarry is the last thing id consider doing with MJ (I just dont like that thing
) Yet i can easely find over a 1000mj/t to spend! MFR autospawner 200 , MFR laser drill 400per drill (after the first, the second is easy, only limited by power), treefarm 100, AE system 200(that quantom bridge, awesome!), various processing machines including lasers/pulverizer and cosmatic block generation 100+ easely.And lets face it, TE alone does not realy need that much (though i can still get to 50mj/t with just TE). But just adding in AE can already add a significant power cost. One that, IMO, TE cannot provide on its own.
Honestly, a quarry is the last thing id consider doing with MJ (I just dont like that thing
And lets face it, TE alone does not realy need that much (though i can still get to 50mj/t with just TE). But just adding in AE can already add a significant power cost. One that, IMO, TE cannot provide on its own.
Wow.. I can't believe I didn't think of all that myself.. I feel shame now.. but yes MJ will continue to have a place in my 9x9.
Interesting. A lot of that couldn't be gleaned from the threads. I looked briefly at the API itself, but not having written any power stuff, I was not in a position to evaluate it technically. I've been kicking around and idea for a framework and was hoping to leverage some standards to help adoption, but other than Forge, it doesn't seem like here are many that have caught on. UE piqued my interest, but it's lack of adoption outside of the Voltz pack made me wary.
Thanks a lot for that. It sounds like rather than an API that evolved from usage, it was one created from the ground up to be a standard, which can really be an uphill battle in a domain that is already heavily populated without the right approach.
So with your system, will you be creating a low level API that then your redstone flux will build on top of as a use of that API? I think that's what you were saying before. The idea being that someone that wanted to build power into their mod without starting from scratch could leverage what you've done without necessarily including TE as part of it? Will it be built as its own module separate from TE?
Honestly, a quarry is the last thing id consider doing with MJ (I just dont like that thing
And lets face it, TE alone does not realy need that much (though i can still get to 50mj/t with just TE). But just adding in AE can already add a significant power cost. One that, IMO, TE cannot provide on its own.
...and ExtraBees ! When I'm in full bee-breeding mode, I have over thirty(30) power-hungry ExtraBees machines, and 20 of them might be running at the same time !
I have to turn off an MFR laser (w/4 pre-chargers) to keep from completely draining my RECs.
What episode was THIS?
Regardless, I'm certainly liking where TE is going. I just really hope it has interesting Steam integration.
Just a quick jaunt off topic in order to correct a misconception here:
This has nothing to do with golden kinesis pipes. It works with all kinesis pipes. Golden ones simply store more than, for example, stone ones. Diamond stores the most.
What happens is that energy flows into the pipe because it can. But if there is no demand for the energy, it won't flow out. Eventually each individual section will hit its cap - possibly equal to the per-tick rating of the pipe, i.e. 256 MJ/t for golden pipes -> 256 MJ stored per section, I don't know for sure. When the cap is reached, the pipe turns red and energy stops flowing into it.
When there is demand for energy that cannot be provided by your engines, then it will start flowing out of the looped pipe again towards the consumer.
I wasn't entirely sure. I only know he and CPW were talking about the special features of golden pipes, so I thought this was one of them. Thanks for the clarification.
I would suggest KL that you make a RF engine that generates MJ, same as the Forestry Electric Engine and RedPowers Kinetic Engine. Engines are familiar to the users of Buildcraft, so keeps the theme, instead of some random block that does a magical conversion to MJ.
Then you can have your own types of energy generating devices (Dynamo's I believe you mentioned).
Could I also put forward the suggestion that RF power should travel through the machine blocks, to power neighbouring blocks, just like how AE and RP2 passes power across. It would cut down on the number of conduit connections required, which might give a slight help to performance.
I would also scrap using Lava as Fuel. That's one of my most hated ideas. Lava is not a fuel. How about an alternative method where a GeoThermal type block has to be placed directly above lava, then for every lava source block in a 5x5x10 column under the GeoThermal block adds a higher temperature. Mix in water to generate power (or steam). Each lava source block could generate 0.5mj/t (using BC terms). To maximise power production (125mj/t) then, players would be forced to move around lava source blocks (which could be dangerous). You could always add something like the railcraft turbine, a heating coil that takes damage over time to add a resource cost.
Then you can have your own types of energy generating devices (Dynamo's I believe you mentioned).
Could I also put forward the suggestion that RF power should travel through the machine blocks, to power neighbouring blocks, just like how AE and RP2 passes power across. It would cut down on the number of conduit connections required, which might give a slight help to performance.
I would also scrap using Lava as Fuel. That's one of my most hated ideas. Lava is not a fuel. How about an alternative method where a GeoThermal type block has to be placed directly above lava, then for every lava source block in a 5x5x10 column under the GeoThermal block adds a higher temperature. Mix in water to generate power (or steam). Each lava source block could generate 0.5mj/t (using BC terms). To maximise power production (125mj/t) then, players would be forced to move around lava source blocks (which could be dangerous). You could always add something like the railcraft turbine, a heating coil that takes damage over time to add a resource cost.
Why do people hate clean energy generation in a game, when clean energy generation is the only thing that's good for us IRL? It's very frustrating. Ok, end of that rant.
TE is a HUGE reason for me even bothering with MJ. If a new version requires a new energy system, is it REALLY that big of a deal? How many times do you plop down a boiler before that's a boring process?
I'm going out on a limb, but these forums most active People are fairly knowledgeable in mods at this point. How much challenge is there in mj? Plop down a tree farm, your Bioler has fuel forever. Grab some oil, your combustion engines run long enough for your tree farm to be setup, and then it runs forever. Breed bees for fuel, your same old boiler or engines run forever. Oooh I'll use DC engines... Still runs forever.
Wouldn't a new energy system be cool? Wouldn't hat be a fair price for such a well respected mod? You know why I play with the Resonant Rise pack? For the different energy gen (amongst other things) that just aren't in FTB. Who cares if it's on a different type of energy network, it's different. It's new.
If the system comes from KL and company, you know it'll work. It'll be intuitive, and it'll have good textures. Stop raging about the new energy system. MJ isn't working for his goals with TE. At the very least, take it as a challenge that TE is on another grid. Instead of begging for conversion options, why not challenge your thinking and be creative?
TE is a HUGE reason for me even bothering with MJ. If a new version requires a new energy system, is it REALLY that big of a deal? How many times do you plop down a boiler before that's a boring process?
I'm going out on a limb, but these forums most active People are fairly knowledgeable in mods at this point. How much challenge is there in mj? Plop down a tree farm, your Bioler has fuel forever. Grab some oil, your combustion engines run long enough for your tree farm to be setup, and then it runs forever. Breed bees for fuel, your same old boiler or engines run forever. Oooh I'll use DC engines... Still runs forever.
Wouldn't a new energy system be cool? Wouldn't hat be a fair price for such a well respected mod? You know why I play with the Resonant Rise pack? For the different energy gen (amongst other things) that just aren't in FTB. Who cares if it's on a different type of energy network, it's different. It's new.
If the system comes from KL and company, you know it'll work. It'll be intuitive, and it'll have good textures. Stop raging about the new energy system. MJ isn't working for his goals with TE. At the very least, take it as a challenge that TE is on another grid. Instead of begging for conversion options, why not challenge your thinking and be creative?
All of the reasons you mentioned for different power systems are the same reasons i want a combined power ability, I want to use whatever power generation I feel like at the time to run whatever I'm trying to use at the time. If that means building a boiler to run a mass fab or an IC2 nuke to run extra bee processing machines I want that option, making yet "another standard in a growing sea of standards" as KL put it, is a step away from that goal and a removal of some of the options I previously had available.
Preach it brother ! Amen ![DOUBLEPOST=1380721199][/DOUBLEPOST]
PowerConvertors are only bad if abused. For something like you are suggesting, I would not consider that to be a bad build. It's something different, at least.
Unfortunately, PowerConvertors got a bad rep. with steam / solar abuse. That, and outputting Charge when Factorization was clearly designed much farther down the power spectrum, i.e. bypassing a huge solar setup with reflective mirrors and a steam boiler when a single early-game MJ engine or LV Solar Panel could power everything in Factorization.
Sans PowerConvertors, you can always use lava or oil as intermediaries between MJ and EU.
The only reason that there are exploits like this between factorization and other mods is that there is no central power. Obviously with every mod making up their own balance of power, intra mod conversions are going to cause issues. Now i'm not saying it would be a simple thing for the modders, but presumably given a simple open ended power api in forge with every mod using the same energy units the mods could much more easily balance off each other. As it is it's like some mods are using the english measurement system and others are using the metric system but no one knows how many feet are in a meter.
Now obviously there will still be "solar abuse" or those that set up a tree farm to run their boiler, however that's their choice and that's why I play on a server without access to things like tree farms and quarries (at least not the easy versions of them).
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