Thermal Dynamics Discussion

[b0bst3r]

So unless you're still playing MC 1.6 or lower you might know that Thermal Expansion shipped without any ducts (energy, fluid or item) in MC 1.7.

The ducts were made in a separate mod by Zeldo and Extra Utils developer RWTema, this was released this week under the guise of Thermal Dynamics.

Before the discussion commences there's one thing you must know and it's REALLY IMPORTANT:

Copper Fluiducts - they melt/break/explode violently if you try and use them for any HOT & COLD liquids. So shifting lava through copper Fluiducts will cause them to explode violently, as will using them to move Gelid or any molten metals (say from Tinkers smeltery).

Installation - this is likely to change but is correct at the time I posted this thread

You need these versions of COFH/MFR at least, along with Forge 1291.

You can get all the above files here - http://minecraft.curseforge.com/members/TeamCoFH/projects

If you have earlier versions than the ones listed above then you will likely crash out a lot!

Earlier versions of Forge will cause missing class errors although I hear KL & Co are working on trying to back port the Forge version for cauldron users/servers.

I know there's not much about the content in here yet but as yet I need to play with it.

Energy Conduit Information:

Leadstone Fluxduct = throughput 200RF/t
Hardened Fluxduct = 800RF/t
Redstone Energy Fluxduct = 8000RF/t
Resonant Fluxduct = 32000RF/t
Cryo-Stabilized Fluxduct = InfiniteRF/t

Fluiduct Information:

Copper Fluiduct & Copper Fluiduct Opaque = Breaks transferring hot and cold liquids
Hardened Fluiduct & Hardened Fluiduct Opaque = transfers any temperature liquids

Item Ducts: (most Itemduct functionality is controlled by the Servo's and Filters)

Basic Itemduct & Opaque
Impulse Itemduct & Opaque = transfers items more quickly
Warp Itemduct & Opaque = transfers items more quickly or instant travel if RF powered

Dual Capability ducts: Single connection, dual purpose

Flux-Plated Fluiduct - Transfers liquids, transfers 2000 RF/t
Fluctuating Itemduct - Transfers items, transfers 2000 RF/t

Other:
Structural Duct - not sure what this is for.

 

[ljfa]

I love it how the itemducts won't send more items than can fit into the destination
The distinction between copper and hardened fluiducts is interesting. I guess they have the same throughput? Does anyone have numbers on that?

 

[King Lemming]

Just one minor thing - while RWTema is definitely a superhero and a champ for this (and I encourage you to donate to his Patreon if you're inclined to donate), Zeldo did a substantial chunk of the underlying logic. Which IMO made Tema's job harder, as he had to come in and learn the codebase and then add on to it.

I came in at the end to tweak and refactor things, but otherwise, it was basically those two. Zeldo hasn't been dev'ing much lately, but the foundational Multiblock logic was his. Tema was responsible for molding that raw clay into something pretty amazing.

As far as Fluiducts - the transfer amount is based on 1) Fluid viscosity and 2) the servo you're using. In general though, they move a lot of Fluid pretty quickly. It might get tweaked up or even have some sort of config option multiplier in coming updates, we'll see.

 

[Azzanine]

Heh heh hehe.
That's a bit of a schadenfreude moment thinking about all those folks pining for the lack of old TE ducts.
I was watching one of the recent DW20 Forgecraft 2 eps and saw how the pipes are more tiered and pretty much require a servo to extract (from anything without auto Eject) and thought to my self "The duct fans aint gonna like this". If it isn't as simple as pipe + lever at the start, tears will be shed.
Now you are telling me that the copper fluid pipes melt and explode! Wow this is priceless.

That being said the super top tier limitless RF/FLuid pipes look interesting but pressure piping beat Thermal Dynamics to the punch there in functionality. (TD looks cooler though and is probably a lot less broken, who needs pumps when you have a hand pump and 6 drums)

 

[HazDS]

Very cool been waiting for this for a while as I'm sure many others have. I hope this gets added to Infinity officially or I may have to add it.

 

[ljfa]

From what I understood, Thermal Dynamics should be independent of Thermal Expansion. It actually works without it, but some items have no crafting recipe (the transparent Item-/Fluiducts as well as the high tier Fluxducts and the higher tier Servos)
Probably because Hardened Glass is missing

Edit: And of course you can't get Destabilized Redstone, Energized Glowstone and Resonant Ender without TE.

Well if some pack wants to use TD without TE they're probably gonna have to use Minetweaker to supplement the recipes.

 

[King Lemming]

Heh heh hehe.
That's a bit of a schadenfreude moment thinking about all those folks pining for the lack of old TE ducts.
I was watching one of the recent DW20 Forgecraft 2 eps and saw how the pipes are more tiered and pretty much require a servo to extract (from anything without auto Eject) and thought to my self "The duct fans aint gonna like this". If it isn't as simple as pipe + lever at the start, tears will be shed.
Now you are telling me that the copper fluid pipes melt and explode! Wow this is priceless.

That being said the super top tier limitless RF/FLuid pipes look interesting but pressure piping beat Thermal Dynamics to the punch there in functionality. (TD looks cooler though and is probably a lot less broken, who needs pumps when you have a hand pump and 6 drums)

Sadist. I kept telling people TD would be more interesting. Thing is, at the high end, it's far more powerful than the old ducts ever were. Transit modes can be configured per-side, backstuffing is basically eliminated unless someone actively removes ducts, and Retrievers offer crazy flexibility.

From what I understood, Thermal Dynamics should be independent of Thermal Expansion. It actually works without it, but some items have no crafting recipe (the transparent Item-/Fluiducts as well as the high tier Fluxducts and the higher tier Servos)
Probably because Hardened Glass is missing

Edit: And of course you can't get Destabilized Redstone, Energized Glowstone and Resonant Ender without TE.

Well if some pack wants to use TD without TE they're probably gonna have to use Minetweaker to supplement the recipes.

Yeah it's technically standalone but it's not something we want to truly officially endorse. There are simply too many edge cases for us to consider. If we add say, a cheap way of making Enderium, then it can throw off the balance a LOT if another mod already added a reasonably expensive way to do it. The flexibility is really there for the modpack makers who can make it work with Minetweaker.

 

[Golrith]

One thing that seems "odd" is the difference in opaque and non-opaque duct recipes.

Piece of glass vs a lead ingot. IIRC they used to require hardened glass instead of normal glass. Partly to encourage using opaque for performance. Now it's cheaper to just use glass and see the items whizzing around.

 

[ljfa]

Don't they require hardened glass?

 

[Golrith]

Don't they require hardened glass?

I'm sure the ones I was looking at were just normal glass. I'd have to double check every recipe. With so many different types of glass now spamming oreDict (even glass with different crafting processes), it's a pain to read recipes sometimes.

 

[King Lemming]

One thing that seems "odd" is the difference in opaque and non-opaque duct recipes.

Piece of glass vs a lead ingot. IIRC they used to require hardened glass instead of normal glass. Partly to encourage using opaque for performance. Now it's cheaper to just use glass and see the items whizzing around.

Only the Copper Fluiducts use normal glass. Everything else is hardened.

 

[Yusunoha]

Very cool been waiting for this for a while as I'm sure many others have. I hope this gets added to Infinity officially or I may have to add it.

check the changelog, it's already been added to version 1.2.0

 

[Golrith]

Only the Copper Fluiducts use normal glass. Everything else is hardened.

Sweet. Note to self, don't assume recipes follow same design structure between different ducts

 

[axzxc1236]

What is difference between every tier servo on fluiducts? How extraction rate make difference on fluiducts?

 

[ratchet freak]

I wouldn't mind seeing the machines start without any augments,

redstone control is very rarely used in builds as most people prefer to control the extraction/insertion

the auto-eject augment tends to get underused as well with people using an active extraction method (importbus over interface)

 

[ljfa]

The basic and hardened servos need a redstone signal in order to pull.
But well, as @ratchet freak mentioned TE machines eject automatically as long as you don't remove the augment.

 

[Golrith]

I wouldn't mind seeing the machines start without any augments,

redstone control is very rarely used in builds as most people prefer to control the extraction/insertion

the auto-eject augment tends to get underused as well with people using an active extraction method (importbus over interface)

There's a config option for that. I've got that enabled, any other machines that auto-eject/etc by default have more expensive crafting recipes.
So you can either start simple with TE dumb boxes and augment them as needed, or wait a bit more to get more resources for other mods machines that do it all.

 

[epidemia78]

So glad this is finally out. EnderIO is a good mod but I only used conduits because of a lack of better options.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Now you are telling me that the copper fluid pipes melt and explode!

[for me] This is a massive selling point. Explosions are fun, and having actual consequences for screwing stuff up results in a more interesting experience.

(hopefully there's more things like this planned )​

 

[ljfa]

When they explode they will actually leave behind a source block of the liquid they were carrying. So be careful when using them in a wooden house...