The rebirth of IC2 ?

[xbony2]

FC3 was wrapped up by DW20 due to not many people watching it according to a tweet from him around the time FC2 started up again.

I guess I was the only one then...

I thought it was fun to see him use mods he doesn't usually use, but I must be crazy.

 

[MigukNamja]

I'd liken going through IC2/Gregtech's tech tree to be a lot closer to something like Thaumcraft research. Each time you start a world you know it's going to take you quite awhile to get through the tree to use it to its full potential no matter how familiar you are with the process.

Yup. Azanor did a brilliant job - and I mean literally brilliant - with TC4 research. I bet the guy has an IQ of at least 150.

While TC4 research has an incredibly steep learning curve, once you get it, it's actually fun. I don't mind *at all* going through TC4 research now that I know how it works. And, I can now mostly steer the research towards the topics I want ! Big improvement over TC3.

It's one of those mods that's difficult to get into and difficult to master, but once you figure out how something works, it's incredible. Truly a cornerstone/anchor mod.[DOUBLEPOST=1386278648][/DOUBLEPOST]

I guess I was the only one then...

I thought it was fun to see him use mods he doesn't usually use, but I must be crazy.

Definitely different strokes for different folks. For me, it was painful watching DW20 FC3. Everything seemed to take such a long time. My playstyle is "have as many mods as possible at my fingertips, but always pick the best/most fun/appropriate tool for the job", which is rarely the easiest/shortcut one. For instance, I have MFR installed and use a piece of it here and there, but by and large try to avoid the immersion-breaking stuff like the planter and harvester.

FC3 was a bit extreme with the mod diet, IMHO.

 

[Zarkov]

The maximum you can transmit is the glass fibre cable's 2048 EU/t. However, transformers don't act like they used to anymore.

Has this recently been nerfed? In the IC2 experimental I'm using (2.0.305 from 18 Nov), it's 8192 eu/t in a single cable. Could be a tool tip mismatch I guess.

 

[SpitefulFox]

I was kinda overjoyed at the idea of seeing Direwolf play without access to Computercraft.

My favorite thing about the Forgecraft vids was seeing all the new mods being showcased, so seeing a server with a severely watered down modlist and "old" mods just didn't appeal to me all that much.

 

[MigukNamja]

I was kinda overjoyed at the idea of seeing Direwolf play without access to Computercraft.

My favorite thing about the Forgecraft vids was seeing all the new mods being showcased, so seeing a server with a severely watered down modlist and "old" mods just didn't appeal to me all that much.

Now, I *do* agree with you on this. Watching someone write ComputerCraft code is about as interesting as watching paint peel, and this is from someone who enjoys writing ComputerCraft Lua code. The FC2 series he did with the player detector for this void age base was....painful. DW20 is a great geek for sure, but that was even a bit too geeky for DW20.[DOUBLEPOST=1386279300][/DOUBLEPOST]

Has this recently been nerfed? In the IC2 experimental I'm using (2.0.305 from 18 Nov), it's 8192 eu/t in a single cable. Could be a tool tip mismatch I guess.

Yeah, I thought it was 8192 EU/t. The last 1.6.4 world I had, I used 4x MFSUs in parallel to a single glass fiber cable run to my transformer-upgraded and fully OC'd machines. They were....*SUPER* fast.

 

[Dravarden]

Now glass fiber takes a diamond per square meter of cable?

So is this supposed to be realistic or not? Because I don't think there are hundreds of diamonds the size of a 9th of a square meter in cables IRL you know...

 

[xbony2]

Now glass fiber takes a diamond per square meter of cable?

So is this supposed to be realistic or not? Because I don't think there are hundreds of diamonds the size of a 9th of a square meter in cables IRL you know...

This is minecraft. When the hell is anything realistic?

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Now glass fiber takes a diamond per square meter of cable?

So is this supposed to be realistic or not? Because I don't think there are hundreds of diamonds the size of a 9th of a square meter in cables IRL you know...

Minecraft isnt a simulator- 'realism' does not come into it.

Realism is just a fairly dirty justification to try and get something your way- often ignoring the rest of realistic -- do you think some wood you ripped from a tree and shaped into a "pickaxe" could really tear up stone?​

As for gameplay (the important thing here)- Glass fibre has been buffed to over 1kEu/t- and the other cables are fairly good too.
(Also diamond was significantly more expensive when glass fibre was added)

 

[Omicron]

My biggest problem with the new enet stuff is that it swings a horrible nerf bat a large-scale power generation.

*snip*

That's... horrifying on so many levels. D:

It's also factually wrong. That's not how transformers work at all.

He is, however, correct in stating that the limit on cable capacity will (once actually enabled) not allow you to build arbitrarily high reactor towers anymore. You need to size your towers to the throughput capacity you have.

Also, a much bigger roadblock to high throughput is probably the fact that you can't get a machine over 8192 EU/t via transformer upgrades. 8k is the maximum, even on the massfab (which, yes, can receive upgrades now). Instead you parallelize. Not one 32k EU/t super reactor feeding into one massfab, but rather 4 lesser 8k reactors feeding into 4 massfabs. Then you have no issue with capacity at all.

Here's my current multi-reactor setup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44754370/2013-12-05_23.11.47.png

It's still winding itself up (since I am building it legit in survival), but once all 8 sub-reactors are stocked with MOX fuel, it will be producing 5,400 EU/t. Using four parallel HV cables, I don't even need glass fiber to transfer the power. No external cooling required, either. From the reactor standpoint itself, IC2 experimental is a huge buff - uranium now gives two times as much total energy as in classic, and MOX up to five times of both total energy and output.

 

[RavynousHunter]

My biggest problem with the new enet stuff is that it swings a horrible nerf bat a large-scale power generation.

Spoiler

Let's look at some of the new MOX designs, some of the CRCS outputs, and my old Tower of Power build.

Tower of Power had multiple nuclear reactors which were outputting something like 7k+ eu/t. Unfortunately, you can't do that anymore.

The maximum you can transmit is the glass fibre cable's 2048 EU/t. However, transformers don't act like they used to anymore.

Transmitters will only output a maximum of the lower voltage. That's it. So when trying to 'step down' to Extreme Voltage, everything else is truncated. In other words, you might as well not have bothered making it.

However, if you've got enough energy going into it, you can have multiple outputs from the same transformer, which can help you realize this truncated value.

However, now we are running into a tree-traversing algorithm here, with regards to space required to safely transmit all this power to the end-user.

You have one input and five potential output slots, although you are only going to realize four output slots. Now then, is all that power supposed to be going down to the same area? Congratulations, you now not only have four times the amount of cabling you have to run, but you've also got to color the entire length of the bastard, just to keep them from burning out. Then, when you have to step down again, it gets even more rediculous.

So, say, I have a power generating facility generating 8192 EU/t (there's MOX generators that can hit this, even if they are condensator or CRCS designs). First off, I have to have the transformer directly attached to the generator, because there isn't any cable that can handle this.

Then I need FOUR LINES of Glass Fibre Cable (at a diamond per block of length!) to transmit this power. Then, when it is further split down, I need SIXTEEN gold lines, which is simply an unmanageable snake of wires large enough to take up almost half of a 9 x 9's space.

All of that hassle just to USE THE POWER I AM PRODUCING.

In other words, IC2-EX is not only demanding you to produce that kind of power for things like the new UUM system, it's also harshly punishing you for even ATTEMPTING to do it.

Just... no.

This is where cross-mod interaction comes in DAMN handy. Again, the answer is Mekanism and its universal cables. They have no concept of "voltage," they take in however much you give them, and only seem to supply the machines with what they can handle and no more. Without GregInterference, steel isn't too hard to get; and that's before we tack on something like Metallurgy, and redstone is a staple for pretty much EVERY mod, so naturally, you're likely to have tonnes of it lying about, waiting to be used.

However, you are right in that IC2-Experimental, by itself, is getting very ridiculous very quickly.

 

[abculatter_2]

It's still winding itself up (since I am building it legit in survival), but once all 8 sub-reactors are stocked with MOX fuel, it will be producing 5,400 EU/t. Using four parallel HV cables, I don't even need glass fiber to transfer the power. No external cooling required, either. From the reactor standpoint itself, IC2 experimental is a huge buff - uranium now gives two times as much total energy as in classic, and MOX up to five times of both total energy and output.

This entire post beautifully summed up what I was about to correct. Thank you, good sir.

Oh, and also let's not forget that you can now use Plutonium as an infinite energy source, thanks to RTG's.

 

[SpitefulFox]

Are the end-game recipes just assuming that people are going to be chunkloading Quarries/Tunnelbores/ArcaneBores/LaserDrills? I remember playing IC2 back in 1.2.5 on a server that didn't allow quarries and it took me quite a while to get the diamonds needed for the MFE and MFSU.

 

[abculatter_2]

Are the end-game recipes just assuming that people are going to be chunkloading Quarries/Tunnelbores/ArcaneBores/LaserDrills? I remember playing IC2 back in 1.2.5 on a server that didn't allow quarries and it took me quite a while to get the diamonds needed for the MFE and MFSU.

Have you never heard of Miners? They go pretty fast with a diamond drill, and they got a range buff recently as well.

Also, apparently they're opening miners up for modders to start adding tools to it, and there's mentions in the changelogs of an "advanced miner", whatever that will be.

 

[SpitefulFox]

Have you never heard of Miners? They go pretty fast with a diamond drill, and they got a range buff recently as well.

Also, apparently they're opening miners up for modders to start adding tools to it, and there's mentions in the changelogs of an "advanced miner", whatever that will be.

Oooh, I always forget about those. How are they?

Also, that still implies the mod expects you to use EZ-Miners to get enough resources.

 

[Omicron]

Why shouldn't it? Thaumcraft expects you to use a block it adds to unlock recipe knowledge, so IC2 can expect you to use a block it adds to unlock recipe affordability. Same thing with a different color, basically

 

[abculatter_2]

Oooh, I always forget about those. How are they?

Also, that still implies the mod expects you to use EZ-Miners to get enough resources.

Well, they DO still require quite a lot of power... And also, they're somewhat difficult to automate, so they're really more semi-automatic. They are quite fast and efficient however.

But yes, IC2 does rely on you using automatic mining to increase your productivity.

 

[SpitefulFox]

Just seems odd. I was always under the impression that auto-miners were glowered upon by those of the "Hardcore!!!!!" philosophy.

 

[WTFFFS]

Just seems odd. I was always under the impression that auto-miners were glowered upon by those of the "Hardcore!!!!!" philosophy.

They are in general but there is also the hardcore philosophy of use it all and have the requirements to need it all.

 

[EnzymeA113]

Now glass fiber takes a diamond per square meter of cable?

So is this supposed to be realistic or not? Because I don't think there are hundreds of diamonds the size of a 9th of a square meter in cables IRL you know...

In IRL, electricity cannot be transmitted through glass or diamond, only optical signals, anyway.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It's also factually wrong. That's not how transformers work at all.

Yes, actually, it is. If you want to not lose 75% of your energy in your transformer, you need 4x output cables attached to it. This is how it works, both in theory and in practice (having used it in Resonant Rise to experiment and come to factual conclusions).

He is, however, correct in stating that the limit on cable capacity will (once actually enabled) not allow you to build arbitrarily high reactor towers anymore. You need to size your towers to the throughput capacity you have.

In other words, you can't have a central power plant, you have to build a decentralized power network with lots of little power generation stations all over the place.

Also, a much bigger roadblock to high throughput is probably the fact that you can't get a machine over 8192 EU/t via transformer upgrades. 8k is the maximum, even on the massfab (which, yes, can receive upgrades now). Instead you parallelize. Not one 32k EU/t super reactor feeding into one massfab, but rather 4 lesser 8k reactors feeding into 4 massfabs. Then you have no issue with capacity at all.

Actually, the bigger roadblock is that you can't generate over 8192 EU/t from a single source, or set of multiple sources, period. Nothing can accept higher than that, the transformer simply truncates more than that, and there IS no higher tier.

Here's my current multi-reactor setup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44754370/2013-12-05_23.11.47.png

It's still winding itself up (since I am building it legit in survival), but once all 8 sub-reactors are stocked with MOX fuel, it will be producing 5,400 EU/t. Using four parallel HV cables, I don't even need glass fiber to transfer the power. No external cooling required, either. From the reactor standpoint itself, IC2 experimental is a huge buff - uranium now gives two times as much total energy as in classic, and MOX up to five times of both total energy and output.

I will certainly agree that the IC2-EX is a HUGE buff to nuclear generation. It also makes it completely non-viable to generate that kind of output.