The Future of FTB Modpacks.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Incorrect. Crashing the game != corrupt world. Where as the way Forestry and now Azanor has gone about it, it may very well lead to corrupt worlds. Yes, removing a mod does give invalid ID errors. However, it does no damage to the world other than removing the items that no longer exist. (I've done it myself tons of times. Heck, the downgrade from 1.6.2 to 1.5.2 had some interesting "invalid minecraft IDs" but in the end I had no issue.) Now, once in awhile one might come across invalid TE's. However, those make no difference to game play. (If it bothers you that much, just put a block everywhere the invalid TE was. It should refresh and remove it.)

For most end-users, it most certainly is world-corruption. You're expecting end-users to be able to a) read a crash log, b) understand what happened, and c) fix the problem. You are vastly over-estimating the average user's technological expertise. Case in point: All the many, many crash bugs which are simply ID errors that can be fixed in config files.

On another note, once in a while you will come across a mod that will cause a crash upon removing it. There are two possibilities:

1) You removed the mod responsible for the structure of your house. (Nothing I can do about that).

2) Or two, you removed a mod that had liquid in your world. In this instance you have two options: 1)
Open up the Forge Config and tell it to remove errored entities on next load. Or 2) Just log back on, and remove the pipes that contained it. Containers of the liquid should just void out automatically, if it doesn't and causes a crash, just void it out using a void pipe. (Or breaking the block that contains the data.)

Again, you are assuming too much technological expertise out of the end-user. I actually understand what you are talking about. Unfortunately, not everyone affected by this problem would. In fact, most people who are affected by this problem would understand to do these things. All they would know is that suddenly their game stopped working, and they can't get it to work again.

 

[Stephen Baynham]

Again, you are assuming too much technological expertise out of the end-user. I actually understand what you are talking about. Unfortunately, not everyone affected by this problem would. In fact, most people who are affected by this problem would understand to do these things. All they would know is that suddenly their game stopped working, and they can't get it to work again.

This is silly shit, crashes occur regularly, posting crashlogs is a skill every user has at this point, and greg's long-winded diatribes are more than informative enough for the person being posted to to diagnose.

 

[Katrinya]

-snip-

Guys... are we really still talking about this? Wasn't this more than a year ago? Didn't everyone hug and make up? Aren't all the interested parties friends again? Will we never lay the infamous Bee Incident to rest?

(Not targeting you specifically Stephen, you were just the last one to post on the subject.)

 

[Dee_Twenty]

I still scoff at this idea. Also, you don't see the author of "Pure Waters" throwing a screaming hissy fit over being included in 1497+ different mod packs over in the Skyrim modding scene. It just seems like Minecraft's modding scene is a little toxic..

Most modding communities I've been a part with over the years these things don't come up often because most modders will include in the readme, Nexus, or whatever site they post their mod on a section regarding permissions, either stating that you can use their work in whatever mods you wish as long as credit is given or that you may not do so without first contacting them to ask permission, the fact that this should even be necessary is sad, but the debacle with Tekkit just illustrates why modders have to do it.

 

[gattsuru]

In addition to the above issues, public recognition of problematic posters can even encourage them. Name-and-shame requires the person to have shame, whereas many trolls actively enjoy that sort of singling out.

Don't let that discourage you- flower child still filters to 'dong princess'.

... that's not terribly encouraging, from my perspective.

I still scoff at this idea. Also, you don't see the author of "Pure Waters" throwing a screaming hissy fit over being included in 1497+ different mod packs over in the Skyrim modding scene. It just seems like Minecraft's modding scene is a little toxic.

It's somewhat misleading to compare Minecraft mods to TES-style mods : Bethesda's engine and scripting language rather blurs the space between writing a mod and using pre-existing resources or shader packs (and simultaneously have limited the demand for modpacks), while Minecraft mods need a sizable amount of decent heavy lifting in a coding language. TES modders are pretty unlikely to be barraged with crash reports detailing mod interaction issues, for one.

((And many TES modders do limit redistribution of their mods.))

I'll admit that I'm fairly skeptical of heavily obfuscated code, and would prefer more open-source or at least available-source efforts among modpackers, but it is important to recognize both their work and the trust that we're giving them.

You'd rather have a corrupt world that you can't play rather than a few creeper holes? Umm... that's your choice, man, but it's far easier to fix a few creeper holes than it is to start over fresh. Uninstall a mod and you get a pile of 'invalid ID' errors since you had items there that are now gone.

I'm not sure that the average user is going to see their alvearies explode and sign back in afterward. Especially with how time-consuming it can be to set up bees to start with.

I agree that it probably will be tolerated better than hard crashes.

 

[hutchkc]

I'll just throw my two cents in. A mod should never be included if it contains malware. This includes exploding bees, crashing minecraft, corrupting saves ... whatever childish bs someone comes up with next. If it were me I would remove GT and if ppl want to add it they can as that's just unacceptable practice. It will send a message so we may have more decorum in the future.

 

[pokemane]

Then he was attacked by a very vocal minority who claimed to represent the community as a whole, and it was not condemned by the community leaders, giving at least the illusion of acceptance. Granted, I doubt at this date that the community leaders were even aware of such an attack to condemn it, but that's perception for you.

Again, I never state that he was right in his action, only that it was less damaging to the userbase than GregTech's actions.

FTB has not condemned the actions of CJ or Sengir. By extension of your argument, I'm certain this means something.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

FTB has not condemned the actions of CJ or Sengir. By extension of your argument, I'm certain this means something.

CJ and Sengir's actions occurred long before FTB existed. At least Sengir has demonstrated he is not inclined to do so again by his blanket permissions for use in mod packs. Gregorious, on the other hand, is PROUD of his actions and is inclined to do so again.

Also do read Slowpoke's statment again. He does not condemn anyone by name, merely by action. He may well decide that CJ's actions are also included in that statement. Try again.

 

[Moleculor]

The code is disabled, because the jars are not signed.

Test it yourself! Modify the jars, then run an instance.

Which is doubly sinister.

Here we have multiple mods with code ready to be triggered the moment they detect .jar files who's signatures do not match.

The code is inactive because the .jar files are not signed, which means that the code can be added unannounced and mostly unnoticed by people.

At some far future date, those .jar files can be signed, triggering the anti-user code. If most mods all sign their .jars all at once, suddenly you have a bunch of code activating across all these various mods in some vast anti-user DRM scheme that's been months or years in the planning.

 

[MissRaptor]

Remove both of them for acting childish instead of rewarding them with continued support. Honestly if people cannot act like reasonable mature adults they have no business in anything being distributed. They may be able to mod but they act like a bunch of five year olds.

 

[Dee_Twenty]

Remove both of them for acting childish instead of rewarding them with continued support. Honestly if people cannot act like reasonable mature adults they have no business in anything being distributed. They may be able to mod but they act like a bunch of five year olds.

mDiyo did act like a reasonable, mature adult, he went to Greg's thread on IC2's forums and publicly requested a cease-fire in a polite manner.

 

[pokemane]

CJ and Sengir's actions occurred long before FTB existed. At least Sengir has demonstrated he is not inclined to do so again by his blanket permissions for use in mod packs. Gregorious, on the other hand, is PROUD of his actions and is inclined to do so again.

Also do read Slowpoke's statment again. He does not condemn anyone by name, merely by action. He may well decide that CJ's actions are also included in that statement. Try again.

I was just commenting on the lack of condemnation of any of those actions, and the lack of attention that they get. It seems that, since it didn't happen to FTB, everyone turns a blind eye and assumes that Slowpoke's vague statement about "modders-that-are-not-GregT" apply to the beloved "core mod" developers.

Keep your snark to yourself. Nobody cares about philosophical or intellectual dickmeasuring. When the childish "mod warz" stop, I'll stop "trying."

 

[Stephen Baynham]

mDiyo did act like a reasonable, mature adult, he went to Greg's thread on IC2's forums and publicly requested a cease-fire in a polite manner.

And he added a config option for his change, allowing players to once again choose to chop more trees.

 

[MissRaptor]

mDiyo did act like a reasonable, mature adult, he went to Greg's thread on IC2's forums and publicly requested a cease-fire in a polite manner.

From what I understand, MDiyo either changed or intended to effect change by doing something in his pack to nullify a change or nerf in Gregtech for wood. Instead of going to GregT and discussing it or suggesting a compromise. not that GT isn't guilty of doing this in spades but two wrongs don't make a right.

Everything about this was handled wrongly, acting like an angel after doesn't change it

 

[Stephen Baynham]

From what I understand, MDiyo either changed or intended to effect change by doing something in his pack to nullify a change or nerf in Gregtech for wood.

He added a recipe.

 

[MissRaptor]

He added a recipe.

Still added to directly counter GT's change was it not? Anyways this is besides the point. Its a shame compromise can't be reached so that people can enjoy both great mods in the same pack without manually adding them themselves. Both of them are at fault for this, not one or the other. They both took actions that will ultimately ruin what would of been a great pack with both mods included

 

[Stephen Baynham]

Its a shame compromise can't be reached so that people can enjoy both great mods in the same pack without manually adding them themselves.

A compromise was reached.

 

[DoctorOr]

Which is doubly sinister.

Here we have multiple mods with code ready to be triggered the moment they detect .jar files who's signatures do not match.

I don't think you get it. The jars will not be signed just sitting on your harddrive. You'd have to download new jars, at which point they can include any code whatsoever. Almost nobody in windows sandboxes their java, so its running with full user permissions and can do whatever is coded.

You're paranoid about code that cannot run, because you might download new and different code that might do something bad.

The code is inactive because the .jar files are not signed, which means that the code can be added unannounced and mostly unnoticed by people.

This isn't even a coherent statement.[DOUBLEPOST=1374201321][/DOUBLEPOST]

Still added to directly counter GT's change was it not?

....so? It's still adding a recipe, something I'll wager most mods (excluding client side only ones) do.

 

[Dee_Twenty]

From what I understand, MDiyo either changed or intended to effect change by doing something in his pack to nullify a change or nerf in Gregtech for wood. Instead of going to GregT and discussing it or suggesting a compromise. not that GT isn't guilty of doing this in spades but two wrongs don't make a right.

Everything about this was handled wrongly, acting like an angel after doesn't change it

If making changes to other mods were considered an issue Gregtech should have been out of FTB from the start, honestly I find this idea that mDiyo is even remotely at fault silly, as you pointed out Greg has been doing the exact same thing for ages and the community has overall been fine with it, when Greg blew a gasket after getting a taste of his own medicine mDiyo chose to try and handle the situation maturely and extend the olive branch, Greg responded by cranking the up the vitriol. In my mind there's absolutely no contest over who handled this nonsense the most maturely, and as such if it's a matter of one mod going and the other staying I'm definitely going to have to side with the modder who at least tried to be civil and whose mod actually adds fun content, bonus points because mDiyo is clearly well versed in orky gubbinz. (Red'uns go fasta, blue'uns iz luckier!)

 

[MissRaptor]

A compromise was reached.

Yeah, don't put them together. Which is great for their egos but not so much for people who might of enjoyed playing with them both in the next FTB pack. Anyways I'm done, its obvious we don't see eye to eye on it and that fine. As a FTB user I just wished to give my 2 cents on the issue

As for MDiyo giving him a taste of his own medicine, as I said two wrongs don't make a right even as notorious as GregT is for it. It could of been handled better