Tech Mods: Missing the Point

[Hoff]

I don't think he said that all are wrong, but a lot (alot, lel) fall short.

Game design takes practice, and it's more difficult than you might think to keep players engaged in your story. his very last sentence gives credit to sengir in Forestry's early days.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly and am very aware of the struggle of designing a good, intriguing, innovative game. I didn't mean to lessen that or make it seem easy. I mean that saying anyone at all is wrong in their implementation because of a preference you have is wrong. It is not wrong to have a preference or desire for something to work the way you envision it but telling people that the way they go about or their actual preference is wrong; is wrong.

 

[epidemia78]

Yeah I guess the automated farming in old versions of Forestry seemed like a fair exchange of effort and resources, although i never learned to set one up myself because everything about forestry seemed so dry and dull especially when watching a tutorial video. I guess in some ways I wish tech mods would return to the old school sensibilities from before TE dumbed everything down but on the other hand I dont want to play Forestry. Its much too obtuse, and theres so much more interesting ways to generate resources than fiddling with icons of bees in a gui for hours on end.

 

[Skyqula]

Game design takes practice, and it's more difficult than you might think to keep players engaged in your story.

But this is minecraft. This is a game where the player decides what they want to do. So yeah, someone could design a mod like factory. Have some kind of endgame goal, a big tech tree and all that. But is that why people play minecraft? I would just use elements of that mod to make my game feel more alive or give some purpose to some of the buildings I make or produce materials to make said buildings. I coudnt care less about said tech tree or endgame goal because I have my own goals.

 

[Hoff]

But is that why people play minecraft?

Obviously for some people, yes. Hence this thread

That's what's great. This game can be the only game you'd ever need to play if you could mod or mods were already made for the things you enjoy or want to play. This game can be almost anything.

 

[midi_sec]

But this is minecraft. This is a game where the player decides what they want to do. So yeah, someone could design a mod like factory. Have some kind of endgame goal, a big tech tree and all that. But is that why people play minecraft? I would just use elements of that mod to make my game feel more alive or give some purpose to some of the buildings I make or produce materials to make said buildings. I coudnt care less about said tech tree or endgame goal because I have my own goals.

Well, I wouldn't call merely having a "tech tree" good game design. Things can be a bit more free form and still not be a hodgepodge of crap.

 

[epidemia78]

But this is minecraft. This is a game where the player decides what they want to do. So yeah, someone could design a mod like factory. Have some kind of endgame goal, a big tech tree and all that. But is that why people play minecraft? I would just use elements of that mod to make my game feel more alive or give some purpose to some of the buildings I make or produce materials to make said buildings. I coudnt care less about said tech tree or endgame goal because I have my own goals.

Its true, Minecraft is a creative game about building stuff. But its also about earning resources through time and effort. People who are only interested in building things play creative. And many tech mods make resources a trivial matter within an hour or two. I just think it sucks that theres so many mods with neat features getting ignored because its easier to just skip right to invincibility instead of letting that OP mod require a couple quarries (or a ridiculous amount of manual mining) worth of ore and/or perhaps a visit to mars...

I understand its silly to expect every modder to gate their machines through Galacticraft (although thats the perfect mod to gate OP mods IMO) or any other mod in particular. But if I were to make a tech mod, how could I not see that its just going to end up another cog in the machine? Why would I not balance it around the features that I know 90 percent of my players are going to be using?

PS: It took like a half an hour to load but I have installed gregtech in my game. Ive never played it before but after 20 or so modded minecraft worlds, the creative mode blues just wont go away. Im not sure if I am quite up to gregtech levels of hardcore but I am about to find out.

 

[HeilMewTwo]

It makes game designers cringe, though. :\ just my opinion, of course.

All I can say is that I agree with him. To me, the fun in modded is finding the cross mod interaction, not exploiting magic blocks that have been designed for a purpose. Going along with that, I enjoy mods that are their own ecosystem, but can still be integrated into other builds.

Not even close, what is being described there is emergent gameplay. Something that minecraft itself is well known for. Calling it a random clusterf*** is pretty much just showing a large amount of bias against tech mods. Honestly from a game design perspective, both tech and magic mods are near identical as they involve the same mechanics. Do you want to know why? It is because they are variations on the same game. Also, I read in another threadd that you are a retired military man, NOT a game designer.

 

[midi_sec]

Not even close, what is being described there is emergent gameplay. Something that minecraft itself is well known for. Calling it a random clusterf*** is pretty much just showing a large amount of bias against tech mods. Honestly from a game design perspective, both tech and magic mods are near identical as they involve the same mechanics. Do you want to know why? It is because they are variations on the same game. Also, I read in another threadd that you are a retired military man, NOT a game designer.

Certain tech mods are clusters. You cannot deny that without lying to yourself man. C'mon now..

Yes I am ex-military, not retired.

and Yes, I am a game designer. I have been DM'ing d&d games probably as long as you've been breathing.

edit: Just checked, yep, just about as long.

 

[HeilMewTwo]

Certain tech mods are clusters. You cannot deny that without lying to yourself man. C'mon now..

Yes I am ex-military, not retired.

and Yes, I am a game designer. I have been DM'ing d&d games probably as long as you've been breathing.

edit: Just checked, yep, just about as long.

Certain magic mods are clusters as well, and you still have not rebutted me on the emergent gameplay of said clusters.

 

[midi_sec]

Certain magic mods are clusters as well, and you still have not rebutted me on the emergent gameplay of said clusters.

*sigh* this thread isn't about magic mods, though.

I've played with enough tech mods to stand by what I've said, so I'm not doing point by point rebuttals, sorry. What we have is a difference of opinion, so leave it at that. kthxbai

 

[epidemia78]

Not even close, what is being described there is emergent gameplay. Something that minecraft itself is well known for. Calling it a random clusterf*** is pretty much just showing a large amount of bias against tech mods. Honestly from a game design perspective, both tech and magic mods are near identical as they involve the same mechanics. Do you want to know why? It is because they are variations on the same game. Also, I read in another threadd that you are a retired military man, NOT a game designer.

Magic mods tend to have in-world crafting and dont all share the same power source. Tech mods are quite random in comparison.

 

[HeilMewTwo]

*sigh* this thread isn't about magic mods, though.

I've played with enough tech mods to stand by what I've said, so I'm not doing point by point rebuttals, sorry. What we have is a difference of opinion, so leave it at that. kthxbai

I see age != maturity, I find your assumptions cringe-worthy and your attitude towards others arguments arrogant.

Magic mods tend to have in-world crafting and dont all share the same power source. Tech mods are quite random in comparison.

How does functioning off of one power source make it random? Also in world crafting is not that big of a deal. Plenty of tech mods have it as well.

 

[midi_sec]

I see age != maturity, I find your assumptions cringe-worthy and your attitude towards others arguments arrogant.

My...assumptions? You're 22, I've been DM'ing for 20 years. That wasn't an assumption.

I have no interest in going back and forth with you over something I already had a small back and forth with somebody else over. If you do not like my opinion, I suggest you get over it.

edit: Weren't you the one labeling me as "retired" come again about assumptions?

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Magic mods tend to have in-world crafting and dont all share the same power source.

Magic mods also have GUI/"machine" crafting systems.

Tech mods seem to share powersources a number of "power" APIs available (MJ [defunct], IC2, RF, RoC ect) and a host of 'converter mods' to change between them, as well as more "tech" mods/addons being present (it certainly feels that way, though it might be due to 'tech' mods being around for longer)

 

[epidemia78]

How does functioning off of one power source make it random? Also in world crafting is not that big of a deal. Plenty of tech mods have it as well.

Because they work on your already established system, just plug it in. Hence, a clusterfuck of random ideas.

 

[HeilMewTwo]

Because they work on your already established system, just plug it in. Hence, a clusterfuck of random ideas.

This literally makes no sense, it is not random if you have a system set up. By this definition, any tech or magic mod with any sort of core quantity is random.

 

[KingTriaxx]

Though given that Mek Universal Cable Transports everything but RoC power, that's about as close to unified power as you can get.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

This literally makes no sense, it is not random if you have a system set up. By this definition, any tech or magic mod with any sort of core quantity is random.

I think he means 'Magic' mods have a stronger/more consistent theme than 'tech' mods.

 

[Reika]

I think he means 'Magic' mods have a stronger/more consistent theme than 'tech' mods.

That is because magic mods tend to be a lot more driven by visuals than tech mods.

 

[atomicgermx69]

I think he means 'Magic' mods have a stronger/more consistent theme than 'tech' mods.

I would love to see a Tech Mod give more risk ( in real life great things come from many failures) to me Tech mods are all about the Tech tree and material needed to make them in the goal of automation. Tech mods can have a greater theme then magic if you think about it........... Magic mods have Golems ...Why no robots for Tech. Why not in the end game of Tech have the chance for a IA Or the chance for IA to become self aware Skynet anyone robot invasion lol. Magic has flux Tech can have pollution.. some times I think Tech mods get to focused on sole goal of automation...any way my two cents on the magic/Tech thing