Something The Modding Community "Ruined"

[Sub]

Crafting. I know what you might think, however, crafting is a really fundamental part of minecraft, and I would say that with all the mods out there it stopped being so important. I remember when I started playing minecraft, yes I knew the most important recipes but there was a sense of achievement and curiosity every time I discovered a new recipe by accident, or not even by accident maybe you were looking for something and started tinkering with different recipes, and when you got what you wanted you felt accomplished. Now that feeling only applies at the beginning of the game when you knew nothing, later in the game you pretty much know everything.

Now the mod developers could have taken advantage of this by perhaps giving them hints on the recipe and making them tinker with that and just do trial and error until they get what they want. However instead the modding community decided to just toss the crafting away and if someone doesn't know a recipe they could just look on NEI or a craftguide mod. Now the problem comes when the less known developers develop a new mod they will take example of the better known developers causing the new mods to ignore the importance of crafting as well. The point I want to make is the crafting system in minecraft is incredibly powerful however the well known mods have made it be underestimated, yes we do still have well known mods that take advantage of crafting like thaumcraft for example. Now I wish all mods followed it's example instead of just saying "look it up on NEI.

What are your opinions?

 

[asb3pe]

Crafting has never been about discovery for me. Crafting is a necessary part of the game, but not an exciting part. I've had the wiki at my side from day one playing minecraft. Couldn't live without it. Now with NEI, I couldn't be happier, since FTB has a bazillion things to try and discover/remember, a few orders of magnitude beyond vanilla. I don't think the game would be enjoyable without something like NEI and the recipes it gives us easy access to. If I had to look everything up on a wiki it would slow me down so much it would be awful. That's just my opinion, I understand your point but I'd have to imagine you're in the minority on this one. In my month playing FTB, my main goal has evolved (once I discovered the great ME storage) to try and make everything I craft as automated as possible (via the molecular assembly pattern stuff) so I never have to look up a recipe ever again!

 

[KirinDave]

Crafting. I know what you might think, however, crafting is a really fundamental part of minecraft, and I would say that with all the mods out there it stopped being so important. I remember when I started playing minecraft, yes I knew the most important recipes but there was a sense of achievement and curiosity every time I discovered a new recipe by accident, or not even by accident maybe you were looking for something and started tinkering with different recipes, and when you got what you wanted you felt accomplished. Now that feeling only applies at the beginning of the game when you knew nothing, later in the game you pretty much know everything.

Now the mod developers could have taken advantage of this by perhaps giving them hints on the recipe and making them tinker with that and just do trial and error until they get what they want. However instead the modding community decided to just toss the crafting away and if someone doesn't know a recipe they could just look on NEI or a craftguide mod. Now the problem comes when the less known developers develop a new mod they will take example of the better known developers causing the new mods to ignore the importance of crafting as well. The point I want to make is the crafting system in minecraft is incredibly powerful however the well known mods have made it be underestimated, yes we do still have well known mods that take advantage of crafting like thaumcraft for example. Now I wish all mods followed it's example instead of just saying "look it up on NEI.

What are your opinions?

Try Ars Magica. You can discover spell recipes by experimentation.

 

[Ytramx]

I disagree for the most part. Discovering recipes would be extremely frustrating and irritating with a 3x3 crafting grid. The joy of crafting for me is not figuring out the right way to configure your items in the grid, but in gathering the materials and working towards the next piece of a complex recipe.

Thaumcraft is a great example of what you're talking about though. For the most part, NEI doesn't help with it, and you just have to putz around on the research table until you find the next cool thing.

For many people, at the end of the day, Minecraft, modded or otherwise, is about building cool things. Mystery recipes would mostly get in the way of that and artificially slow it down. For those who really want that experience, just turn off NEI for the modded experience, and never visit the wiki for Vanilla. I know that I would never have known how to make a piston if not for the wiki/NEI, much less a Xychorium Soil block made of Xychorium Engineering blocks, made of smelted Xychorium.

 

[Runo]

I think you'd have a point if the crafting system wasn't so binary and size limited. theres only so much you can do with a 3x3 grid, and the number of recipes requires true/false placement specific input and tiered successive crafting to work. The modders worked with the hand given them, and I think placing the onus of discovery on players would limit players more than help.

if we had a 9x9 grid, you'd have a bit stronger of an argument bc recipes could be made into a more analog input.

 

[Sub]

Try Ars Magica. You can discover spell recipes by experimentation.

I have played with Ars Magicka and I love the way you can create new spells and all that. But imagine if all mods followed this for example industrialcraft once you find cables batteries and resistors you would need to make a combination to make an electric circuit and just go throw the tech tree like that!

 

[Freakscar]

Discovering recipes would be extremely frustrating and irritating with a 3x3 crafting grid. The joy of crafting for me is not figuring out the right way to configure your items in the grid, but in gathering the materials and working towards the next piece of a complex recipe.

I agree. =)

Thaumcraft is a great example of what you're talking about though. For the most part, NEI doesn't help with it, and you just have to putz around on the research table until you find the next cool thing.

Which is such an annoying method that even the modauthor himself scratched the whole thing and developed a completely different research system for his mod.

 

[Sub]

I think you'd have a point if the crafting system wasn't so binary and size limited. theres only so much you can do with a 3x3 grid, and the number of recipes requires true/false placement specific input and tiered successive crafting to work. The modders worked with the hand given them, and I think placing the onus of discovery on players would limit players more than help.

if we had a 9x9 grid, you'd have a bit stronger of an argument bc recipes could be made into a more analog input.

I disagree for the most part. Discovering recipes would be extremely frustrating and irritating with a 3x3 crafting grid. The joy of crafting for me is not figuring out the right way to configure your items in the grid, but in gathering the materials and working towards the next piece of a complex recipe.

Thaumcraft is a great example of what you're talking about though. For the most part, NEI doesn't help with it, and you just have to putz around on the research table until you find the next cool thing.

For many people, at the end of the day, Minecraft, modded or otherwise, is about building cool things. Mystery recipes would mostly get in the way of that and artificially slow it down. For those who really want that experience, just turn off NEI for the modded experience, and never visit the wiki for Vanilla. I know that I would never have known how to make a piston if not for the wiki/NEI, much less a Xychorium Soil block made of Xychorium Engineering blocks, made of smelted Xychorium.

I understand your guys' points and I agree that is why I said maybe with some explanation you could have a guidance of how to craft the items. For example with the tinker's construct table you could say something like: "Planks are too weak to hold a base for making tools perhaps harder wood would work(yes I know harder wood hurr hurr :3)" or maybe even a crafting table that has a log telling you what you are doing wrong like what the division sigil ritual from extra utils does but in a crafting table.

 

[Henry Link]

For me crafting is a part of the game and I don't mind it in vanilla minecraft. However, due the 100+ mods in unleashed, I don't have time to go hunt wiki pages, forums and videos on how to craft one item I need. While I do know certain recipes, other I will never learn. Either they change or I don't need to use them that frequently. For example, I generally only need to make one mass fab. So I have to look up that recipe once and I don't need to memorize it. Others like your basic torches I will never need to look up. In addition some crafting can be a grind (HV solar panels). For things like that the challenge is setting up the automation to make them. The crafting recipe is rather simple but I don't want to repeat it 64 times.

 

[KirinDave]

I have played with Ars Magicka and I love the way you can create new spells and all that. But imagine if all mods followed this for example industrialcraft once you find cables batteries and resistors you would need to make a combination to make an electric circuit and just go throw the tech tree like that!

This is not really why people play industrialcraft. But you could just, you know, remove NEI.[DOUBLEPOST=1377626291][/DOUBLEPOST]

I agree. =)

Which is such an annoying method that even the modauthor himself scratched the whole thing and developed a completely different research system for his mod.

Yeah well he IS going to replace it with a more activity-oriented thing.

But I've watched most of DW20's Season 4 where he played with Thaumcraft 2. Holy smokes is TC2 a billion times more awesome than TC3. Makes me want to go back and fire up a modified tekkit instance to play that. I wonder if people would watch a retroMC series.

 

[Freakscar]

Holy smokes is TC2 a billion times more awesome than TC3. Makes me want to go back and fire up a modified tekkit instance to play that.

Rumor has it, that most of the stuff that made TC2 that awesome (never played it myself, just keep reading this everywhere^^) is, in one way or another, going to be re-implemented in TC3. But again, that's just what one can hear through the grapevine.

 

[RedBoss]

But I've watched most of DW20's Season 4 where he played with Thaumcraft 2. Holy smokes is TC2 a billion times more awesome than TC3. Makes me want to go back and fire up a modified tekkit instance to play that. I wonder if people would watch a retroMC series.

With the current state of core mods and the opposition to changes or them not being updated, I predict a pretty good market for "retro-mods"

 

[PeggleFrank]

-snip- Yeah well he IS going to replace it -snip-

For the third time.

Great, another research system. In the end it's probably going to be you jumping on a table and generating knowledge which you have to bucket up and drink to research things.

 

[Symmetryc]

But I've watched most of DW20's Season 4 where he played with Thaumcraft 2. Holy smokes is TC2 a billion times more awesome than TC3. Makes me want to go back and fire up a modified tekkit instance to play that. I wonder if people would watch a retroMC series.

What? I didn't play TC2 all that much, but I don't remember it being that good. What made it so much better?

To clarify, I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just asking for your opinion.

 

[Pokefenn]

This is not really why people play industrialcraft. But you could just, you know, remove NEI.[DOUBLEPOST=1377626291][/DOUBLEPOST]


Yeah well he IS going to replace it with a more activity-oriented thing.

But I've watched most of DW20's Season 4 where he played with Thaumcraft 2. Holy smokes is TC2 a billion times more awesome than TC3. Makes me want to go back and fire up a modified tekkit instance to play that. I wonder if people would watch a retroMC series.

I would watch a retro series
I love 1.2.5, reminds me of when i started playing modded minecraft!
TC2 was so fun.

 

[GPuzzle]

Retro series?
I certainly would watch it. I am, however, extremely interested in seeing a Pyramid Map Let's Play, because I like it a lot.

 

[WTFFFS]

What? I didn't play TC2 all that much, but I don't remember it being that good. What made it so much better?

To clarify, I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just asking for your opinion.

Seals, that is all.

Though also eldritch, high tier research (TC3 gets to tier1.5-2 thereabouts according to Azanor, TC2 went to tier4), I personally liked the liquid vis system as feeding a crucible all of your mass overproduction from various sources and having huge stacks of tanks of lovely purple liquid all over was cool and the storage\piping\liquids themselves looked absolutely awesome as everything Azanor makes tends to do, specific enchanting using all of that vis was fantastic as well. On more than one occasion I did something dumb (or got hit by a bug, Mystcraft was very good at this) and lost all my gear I could remake it exactly (including enchants) in a short period of time by using the huge reserves I had.

 

[Saice]

I love resreach and discovery but turth be told most mods are so poorly documented in game that if you had to say figure out GregTech with no NEI or Wiki you would be in for a realy long and painful trail and error jounry.

The issue is oftent things are nested and some times not even logical. In vanilla things are fairly limited and mostly make a sort of sence. But in modded MC when get into things are are multi level nested recipes it becomes more and more unfessable to figure it out on your own.

Now I do agree there is to often there is a reliance on NEI to the point were modders can use it as a cruch when desiging their mods. I honestly would like to see more mods go the way of TiC and TC were there are nice in game docs avable to point you in the right direction.

 

[KirinDave]

Seals, that is all.

Though also eldritch, high tier research (TC3 gets to tier1.5-2 thereabouts according to Azanor, TC2 went to tier4), I personally liked the liquid vis system as feeding a crucible all of your mass overproduction from various sources and having huge stacks of tanks of lovely purple liquid all over was cool and the storage\piping\liquids themselves looked absolutely awesome as everything Azanor makes tends to do, specific enchanting using all of that vis was fantastic as well. On more than one occasion I did something dumb (or got hit by a bug, Mystcraft was very good at this) and lost all my gear I could remake it exactly (including enchants) in a short period of time by using the huge reserves I had.

I loved how you had to program the seals personally.

 

[Hydra]

"Discovery" in crafting? That's what wiki's are for. For me MC has always been about building stuff. The crafting is just part of that, but in no way a goal in itself. I seriously dislike mods that add craptons of crafting steps 'just because'.