Should ic2 be boycotted untill the power system is fixed ??

[Corinanth]

I wanted to propose a boycott of ic2 at least until they pull their heads out of their asses regarding the issues with the new energy net design.

the proposed system in the experimental version is a violation of everything that i know about electricity. and the understanding that you need to control how much power is generated to prevent explosions is complete crap since most generating devices don't have any sort of throttling mechanism. the fact that the experimental disabled machine block explosions is proof that even they understand that their system has serious issues.

their system is essentially assuming that all generation devices and power storage modules are wired in series rather in parallel like any sane energy grid would do.

essentially the original system of different voltages was far superior and easy to maintain.

think about it this way

you have a house powered by a single small generator and a house that is wired to the nuclear plant next door. now in a normal network the voltage output from both plants is steady or fluctuates slightly based on draw.

with the new system your essentially stating that the nuclear reactor is constantly forcing it's entire output down the line at extreme voltage blowing out every item in the house rather than it;s normal behavior of simply allowing a higher amperage draw from the machines.

now amperage is a concern for systems because the higher amperage the more heat is generated in the wires.

the new system appears to be trying to add new dangers by allowing a system to be overloaded by placing too many machines on a single cable.

the issue is that this would never cause the machines to explode since machines draw amperage amperage unlike voltage is not a measurement of how much force is applied by the current but rather how much current is traveling through the wire. when you have a machine drawing more amperage than the system supports the wire will overheat and possible burn out however the machine will NEVER EXPLODE.

the new system is an abortion of both game mechanics and a violation of the most basic laws of nature created by incompetent and sadistic developers that are essentially greifing the mine craft community on a massive scale. ic2 does not need an additional layer of asinine complexity when it makes no sense. it is not balance at this point it is just stupidity.

if you want a simple test to see how retarted the new ic2 energy net is do a simple home experiment get a few 9 volt batteries about 10 of them. and get a fan or motor that runs on it.

now first off assume a battery is a cesu/mfe

try it in 2 configurations the first connect the wire to all of the batteries the positive wire connects to all the positive terminals and the negative to all negative terminals.

this is the original energy net you have a large capacity however your limited in voltage. the fan / motor will run for a long time,

now take those same batteries and snap them together in a chain positive to negative until you have a line of batteries with a single positive and a single negative. "wear gloves"

now you'll notice same number of batteries however you'll see some fireworks and the motor / fan will blow up or burn out. this is the new ic2 energy net concept and it is retarded because no one would ever wire up a energy circuit this way unless they were intentionally trying to achieve a high voltage output which most people would use transformers for. there is no valid excuse for stupidity and no justification for this new system

if they want to take overloaded circuits into account than they should do what sane people do and have circuit breakers in the storage units that trip when too much energy is drawn or simply destroy the wiring. but overloaded wires will never ever ever cause a machine to explode but may set your walls on fire if there is no breaker

 

[Pokefenn]

People have stopped using it and putting it into modpacks.
Thats good enough.

 

[zorn]

Disagree. No one complains about other power systems that are just as unrealistic but in different ways.

 

[PhilHibbs]

I wanted to propose a boycott of ic2 at least until they pull their heads out of their asses regarding the issues with the new energy net design.

IC2 has never been "electricity". The energy net has always been its own mini-game with its own rules. You don't like the mini-game? Don't play it. I'd never call for a boycott of a mod that I happen not to care for.

People have stopped using it and putting it into modpacks.
Thats good enough.

Why do you care whether or not people use a mod that you don't like? No-one is forced to use IC2 machines. I don't. But I don't hate on the mod, if someone else wants to use it, good for them.

"There used to be a mod. That mod is no longer under development. Some people are making a new mod. I demand that they make it like that old one, or that they make it work like I want a mod to work. We should boycott it until they agree with me.

 

[Pokefenn]

IC2 has never been "electricity". The energy net has always been its own mini-game with its own rules. You don't like the mini-game? Don't play it. I'd never call for a boycott of a mod that I happen not to care for.

Why do you care whether or not people use a mod that you don't like? No-one is forced to use IC2 machines. I don't. But I don't hate on the mod, if someone else wants to use it, good for them.

I don't care...
I never said that i cared.

 

[Zaflis]

http://forum.industrial-craft.net/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=9843

Builds after #397 are for MC 1.7.

Then the changelog
http://ic2api.player.to:8080/job/IC2_experimental/changes

#397 (Feb 18, 2014 6:11:00 PM)

That would be the day that IC2 development for 1.6.4 ended.

And yeah, i don't care about incomplete powernet. It's actually perfectly inline with Thermal Expansion as it is, no range dissipation and no explosions.

 

[Vasa]

no.why?

 

[PhilHibbs]

I don't care...
I never said that i cared.

OK, sorry. Saying something is "good" usually implies some kind of preferential opinion.

 

[Pokefenn]

OK, sorry. Saying something is "good" usually implies some kind of preferential opinion.

Was just a 'there is no need for a boycot and im too lazy to explain why so i will pretend to agree on a small level' xD

 

[Wagon153]

I wanted to propose a boycott of ic2 at least until they pull their heads out of their asses regarding the issues with the new energy net design.

the proposed system in the experimental version is a violation of everything that i know about electricity. and the understanding that you need to control how much power is generated to prevent explosions is complete crap since most generating devices don't have any sort of throttling mechanism. the fact that the experimental disabled machine block explosions is proof that even they understand that their system has serious issues.

their system is essentially assuming that all generation devices and power storage modules are wired in series rather in parallel like any sane energy grid would do.

essentially the original system of different voltages was far superior and easy to maintain.

think about it this way

you have a house powered by a single small generator and a house that is wired to the nuclear plant next door. now in a normal network the voltage output from both plants is steady or fluctuates slightly based on draw.

with the new system your essentially stating that the nuclear reactor is constantly forcing it's entire output down the line at extreme voltage blowing out every item in the house rather than it;s normal behavior of simply allowing a higher amperage draw from the machines.

now amperage is a concern for systems because the higher amperage the more heat is generated in the wires.

the new system appears to be trying to add new dangers by allowing a system to be overloaded by placing too many machines on a single cable.

the issue is that this would never cause the machines to explode since machines draw amperage amperage unlike voltage is not a measurement of how much force is applied by the current but rather how much current is traveling through the wire. when you have a machine drawing more amperage than the system supports the wire will overheat and possible burn out however the machine will NEVER EXPLODE.

the new system is an abortion of both game mechanics and a violation of the most basic laws of nature created by incompetent and sadistic developers that are essentially greifing the mine craft community on a massive scale. ic2 does not need an additional layer of asinine complexity when it makes no sense. it is not balance at this point it is just stupidity.

if you want a simple test to see how retarted the new ic2 energy net is do a simple home experiment get a few 9 volt batteries about 10 of them. and get a fan or motor that runs on it.

now first off assume a battery is a cesu/mfe

try it in 2 configurations the first connect the wire to all of the batteries the positive wire connects to all the positive terminals and the negative to all negative terminals.

this is the original energy net you have a large capacity however your limited in voltage. the fan / motor will run for a long time,

now take those same batteries and snap them together in a chain positive to negative until you have a line of batteries with a single positive and a single negative. "wear gloves"

now you'll notice same number of batteries however you'll see some fireworks and the motor / fan will blow up or burn out. this is the new ic2 energy net concept and it is retarded because no one would ever wire up a energy circuit this way unless they were intentionally trying to achieve a high voltage output which most people would use transformers for. there is no valid excuse for stupidity and no justification for this new system

if they want to take overloaded circuits into account than they should do what sane people do and have circuit breakers in the storage units that trip when too much energy is drawn or simply destroy the wiring. but overloaded wires will never ever ever cause a machine to explode but may set your walls on fire if there is no breaker

Short answer: No.
Long answer: Not cool at all. This is actually incredibly rude. IC2 is currently in experimental, long word for WIP. That's like saying Botania or Advanced Thaumaturgy are bad mods because they aren't finished. It is neither fair or polite. Don't like it, don't play it. But don't thrust your opinion on others. As for complexity, the current IC2 is really not hard to understand. Takes a little thinking, but you can figure it out in half an hour. You want real complexity and realism? Play RotaryCraft. As for your planned energy net, it's bad and I'll tell you why. The current energy net is only a little different from the old one. But yours would change how IC2 works completely. You would anger all the old users of IC2 even MORE!

 

[KingTriaxx]

If you don't like the mod write your own. I no longer even use IC2, so it no longer matters to me.

 

[rhn]

TBH I much prefer the new power system to the old one. Sure it is incomplete at the moment and I would love for them to have developed on the 1.6 version longer(they jumped to 1.7 way too early imo).

It is much more realistic that cables are now limited by actual throughput (EU/t) rather than packet sizes. It was borderline cheaty before IMO. You could run power enough to run the world down a single copper wire before if you wanted to. I like the new system and it make me have to think in designing my powergrid to mimic the RL power grid.

When it comes to machines blowing up, well yeah that is probably rare in RL. But in RL we also have stuff like HPFI breakers and Fuses to protect out equipment from damage. Without that cables doesn't just burn over cleanly. Specially not if it is heavy duty 3 phase cables, in which case machines will most likely be damaged. Now sure IC2 could add in another mechanic to mimic damaging machines. But it is just easier, simpler and better for everyone to use the explosion mechanic that is already there.

And tbh. It is quite simple to make sure not to blow stuff up with the new IC2E: Just make sure that you only feed one line of cables from one equally rated storage device. If you need more power to a location, then run multiple lines(Like in RL in your house!) and colour the cables to tell the difference between them(also how it is done in RL in your house).

 

[Revemohl]

I've given up on IC2 a long time ago, not too long after I realized that basically all alternatives are considerably simpler, more efficient, more intuitive and less restrictive than it. As I see it, the only reason people still cling to that mod is because they're used to it. I have to admit that using IC2 was fun, though, maybe from when I found out about modded MC back in 1.2.5 to somewhere around 1.5.
The only good things about the 1.6 version, in my opinion, are how it got more ways to generate power (or a way, I can only remember one new generator) and how nuclear power is actually useful now.

Anyway, I don't think you're going to be able to convince people to stop using IC2. The best you can do is stop using it yourself.

 

[zorn]

TBH I much prefer the new power system to the old one. Sure it is incomplete at the moment and I would love for them to have developed on the 1.6 version longer(they jumped to 1.7 way too early imo).

It is much more realistic that cables are now limited by actual throughput (EU/t) rather than packet sizes. It was borderline cheaty before IMO. You could run power enough to run the world down a single copper wire before if you wanted to. I like the new system and it make me have to think in designing my powergrid to mimic the RL power grid.

When it comes to machines blowing up, well yeah that is probably rare in RL. But in RL we also have stuff like HPFI breakers and Fuses to protect out equipment from damage. Without that cables doesn't just burn over cleanly. Specially not if it is heavy duty 3 phase cables, in which case machines will most likely be damaged. Now sure IC2 could add in another mechanic to mimic damaging machines. But it is just easier, simpler and better for everyone to use the explosion mechanic that is already there.

And tbh. It is quite simple to make sure not to blow stuff up with the new IC2E: Just make sure that you only feed one line of cables from one equally rated storage device. If you need more power to a location, then run multiple lines(Like in RL in your house!) and colour the cables to tell the difference between them(also how it is done in RL in your house).

Is the 1.7 IC2 now complete, with respect to the E Net? In 1.6 I was told you can just run any wire anywhere, its like thermal expansion 2, just one wire can carry almost infinite power, just plug and go, etc. Im excited for the new e-net, it sounds challenging for the reasons you described.

The exploding cables act like fuses anyway. Run high voltage though a copper wire, the wire blows up, just like a fuse.

And really, has anyone ever run 220v power into a machine that was designed for 110 volts? I have. It didnt explode, but it sure never worked again. Explosions arent maybe totally realistic, but minecraft isn't really a realistic game anyway.

 

[dragonmaster0283]

I think they are more going for the more use of transformers to manage power lines.

 

[zorn]

I've given up on IC2 a long time ago, not too long after I realized that basically all alternatives are considerably simpler, more efficient, more intuitive and less restrictive than it. As I see it, the only reason people still cling to that mod is because they're used to it. I have to admit that using IC2 was fun, though, maybe from when I found out about modded MC back in 1.2.5 to somewhere around 1.5.
The only good things about the 1.6 version, in my opinion, are how it got more ways to generate power (or a way, I can only remember one new generator) and how nuclear power is actually useful now.

Anyway, I don't think you're going to be able to convince people to stop using IC2. The best you can do is stop using it yourself.

Its fine to not use it, but dont assume people play it just because they are used to it. You say alternatives are simpler, more efficient, and more intuitive, I say simple is boring, efficient is too easy, and untuitive = no challenge. lots of people dont want to spend time fiddling with the machines, theyw ant to 'set it and forget it' and go do something else. Which is fine, but dont just assume people using IC2 are just 'wrong' or making an error like using it because they are comfortable with it. Go to the ic2 forums and talk with people there, people use it because they dont want a 'simpler' mod. For people like me, solving problems is fun. If a mod solves all of the challenges I will run into, the game isn't fun for me.

think of it this way. What if someone made an item that cost 8 dirt to make, and when you held it and right clicked, it killed all mobs within 140 block radius of you? You could say "well this is much simpler, more efficient, intuitive, and less restrictive than... researching lightning wands in TC4 and using it to kill individual mobs. But is it more fun? Or Challenging?

to each his own of course, just dont assume everyone wants what you want.

 

[casilleroatr]

<snip>

First of all, capital letters are a thing.

Secondly, a boycott is among the most illiberal ways to deal with a problem (or something that isn't a problem as in the case of a mod you happen to not like). All of us here are already making our minds up about playing IC2 exp. Some of us see it or play it and don't like the look of it; I have barely played it but I have a quietly prejudged that it is probably not for me while others after more extensive testing have given up. Others play IC2 exp and continue to play it, not because they are unenlightened or don't know how "retarded" IC2 is, but because they sincerely enjoy playing the mod.

If you want a serious discussion about the role of IC2 in modpacks, when IC2 was being considered for removal from the resonant rise pack, players were invited to express their thoughts on the matter. Barring a few small exceptions, ('tis the internet after all) the discussion succeeded in presenting all the pros and cons of IC2s inclusion in the modpack. The topic had a well-defined and realistic aim (it was after all started by the man who had the power to remove it from the pack) and in the end the discussion was concluded by an actual decision being made on IC2's role in the pack (it was removed by the way). It did not result in another excuse for people for and against IC2 to make demagogues of themselves and shout at each other.

 

[Golrith]

Luckily nowadays there are plenty of other mods that you can pick from. If you don't like how mod X is developing, try another mod.

Personally, if you want a more straightforward power system, but more tech blocks then try Mekanism. It's sort of between IC2 and TE3. Some things are a puzzle to work out, it's resource heavy, but has a safe power system.

 

[Yusunoha]

I don't care for IC2 anymore so... I only use it for the crops and the scaffolds.
a few other mods already add scaffolds, so now if only a mod would take the crop system, and actually improve on it, I can ditch IC2 completely

 

[casilleroatr]

I don't care for IC2 anymore so... I only use it for the crops and the scaffolds.
a few other mods already add scaffolds, so now if only a mod would take the crop system, and actually improve on it, I can ditch IC2 completely

Magical crops is nice for growing resources, although you still have to replant seeds. Its one of my new favourite mods because I love farming.