Note: Never start a forum thread and then go to sleep sick. I was completely not expecting 6 pages of replies and I have NO idea why not.
Tomewyrm, you're a frequent flier on Reika's forum, can you provide the details (neutrally) of the update checker?
In its current form? Oh hell I'll just give the cliffs notes version on what I remember about most of them.
The first checker I noticed anything about was the ticker/banner. It had a command to disable per mod AND version for two weeks. Each command only worked for say, DragonAPIv6b. If v6c came out while you were still on v6a it would trigger the banner again even if it had been less than two weeks. Note: Not personal observation. My pack has been in config limbo for a while now, and I usually update before I actually boot the instance up while I'm in testing. I've only seen the update banner twice in-game, and in screenshots... and I just updated immediately so I can't comment on the annoyance factor. I actually did precisely what Reika wants us to do, and would have with a notification in VersionChecker, a text message, or probably even some output to the console log.
This first version caused some heat in the community and then
@CoolSquid came up with a pretty neat idea of uniquely identifying a pack maker (via file path if I recall correctly) and timestamp, then hashing those and saving it. Then on boot, perform the same action and checks first to see if you're the same person (launching it from the same instance location actually), second if it has been more than X time since the update checker could show you a message (Reika chose two weeks IIRC), and then third if there actually is an update. The implementation used java's inbuilt symmetric encryption (AES? It's one of the official ones baked in with Java.) which prevents easily tampering with the timestamp. If you are the same person and there is an update it would show, if you were a different person and it had been more than two weeks it would show, and obviously it wouldn't show if there's no update
.
From there I do believe the next progression is the popup, with the "pack maker" hash check still implemented... but I haven't asked directly and I lapsed on reading the MCF thread.
loss of faith in humanity
See, there's your problem. You still have faith in humanity!
(This is mostly tongue in cheek guys. I'm a misanthrope, attempting a bit of grey/black humor.)
many other developers also have per-login popups and seem to get no hate. Indeed, it was Ichun's mods that gave me the idea.
Wait, he uses a popup? Gods I need to stop being so compulsive about updating so I can see this stuff. All I've ever seen is chat message ones that (I assumed) most of my mods used, which while I personally find them annoying, fade quickly and can be perused at the user's leisure. I've literally never noticed.
I could make it a month, two months, six months - totally destroying the point of an update checker, given my major versions are usually about 1.5 months apart - and you would still complain.
Actually something in the 4-6 week range sounds more reasonable to me personally. I'm on your side of the spectrum for updates, my instance operates on a rolling release schedule, I update something every day when testing/building and generally do "weekly maintenance" on International Patch Day (Tuesday morning) for my server, which is when all those mod updates get stuck in. But I can see where someone dedicated to stability might find two weeks to be insufficient. Which is why I was arguing on Synful's side the last time this came up. While it will almost certainly never affect me personally, I could very easily see quite legitimate issues with the update checker as it WAS implemented.
The "only show if you're a pack maker or if it's been more than the expiration time, and only once per minor update" is the current intended behavior? Personally I don't have a problem with that on paper. The popups give you the instructions on how to turn them off, they go away, they'll only bug you every few weeks unless you're in a reasonable position to update the pack. At this point I personally like the implementation. Wish VersionChecker would quit FUBARing on your mods though. Seeing the updates in NEM that will never detect properly as updated even if I went in to update the bot myself because the mod detects as "gamma" instead of "v6e"... well it gets obnoxious. It only affects some of the mods and I have 0 idea why or why not any particular one.
And now I think I just had the argument with myself that would have spawned the version checker, heh.
You did indeed.
disabled for more than a month with a simple command
I thought the command only worked like the button/hash check in that it alerts you for the next minor... which have occasionally taken over a week to come out. The command goes for MAJOR versions? I still dread having to tell anyone to do that though. It's the age old IT issue of telling your computer-illiterate "customers" something and their eyes glazing over going "I can't understand this so I won't even try, quit trying to teach me anything". Which is a sad state of affairs, but quite literally how the human brain is designed, it really doesn't like not being able to understand things.
That having been said, me personally I like the new popup, just saying again. But conservative/cautious pack authors and server admins did have a point.
I honestly don't think anyone should have an easy time skipping major versions of your mods for any length of time. Ever. For any reason. Those come out rarely enough that you can test just fine in a couple of weeks, and if you can't test the 6-10 mods in that timeframe once every two-to-four months? You really do not have the time to devote to a modpack as a maintainer. Catering to
the tail like that is like trying to fix stupid. You're never going to make everyone happy, and in doing so you're just going to piss off either everyone else (like the initial incarnation of the checker) or the creator; generally by defeating the point of the creation's inception or making them waste an inordinate amount of time. If this update checker can allow Monster to happen again, it has defeated the reason it was conceived in the first place. ALWAYS KEEP MONSTER IN MIND! That is the inciting incident and Reika is STILL getting bug reports from Monster's recommended version, which is v19b (1.1.2 which is STILL not recommended is using 23b... not 25z. There are a lot of things I thank FTB for, things I praise them for. Keeping their packs reasonably up to date is not one of them.). That is stupid and unacceptable, nobody should be using v19 anymore. There's a grace period, and then there's Monster.
Been thinking about this for a bit now..
Why don't we have a mod where the sole purpose is to alert users to update mods? It could be something like a splash screen as the user logs in, I've seen similar screens done already. There could be an API for the mod dev to send the version update number, how critical it is, and provide a link or download method with or without instructions on how to install it. You know, have a standardized method of alerting people.
As an average user, I'd love to know when other mods need updating instead of waiting for a new pack or keeping track of 100+ mods.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forum...81-version-checker-auto-update-mods-and-clean
Already been done, has support for a crapton of mods already, even Reika's... though that's currently broken for some reason. There are also a few dozen other mods that do similar things, but as far as I know, Version Checker is the most used and best supported.
@King Lemming I was unaware that COFH was planning on extending update functionality to all mods. That's pretty neat! Personally prefer a lot about the implementation of Version Checker though. It checks multiple sources as a fallback and it does this in the main menu being the two major ones.
You could make the version checker mod a dependency for dragonAPI. That way players need to have the mod installed to use your mods.
And I'm pleasantly surprised with how this thread turned out. Instead of a massive clusterfrak and several bans, y'all came together on a reasonable solution that satisfies most people.
That was what I was hoping when I made it and specifically told people to keep it focused and clean. The only ways I've ever seen drama wrap up is to forget it, or talk it out with actual information. Luckily most of us here like the information route. Learning is fun!
I have no idea how the mod can know when an update was released
CurseForge. Seriously. With the intention to keep it open for other platforms to use, it is swiftly shaping into the "Nexus" (ala the community mod site for Fallout/The Elder Scrolls and a lot more games besides) for Minecraft mods.
Given that these is the FTB forums, mod authors on this thread have to be receptive to the idea that their mods are incorporated into FTB mod packs.
As such, please just start a discussion amongst yourselves and the FTB team to figure out what kind of notification strategy would work best.
In my ideal world, as an FTB user, there would be a separate version mod that is included in a pack, that would intercept all per-mod version checking, and replace it with a single "This FTB pack needs updating", perhaps with a severity indicator "FriendlyPuppy20 1.0.1 contains at least one mod with a critical update. Update the pack to the recommended version now or it might be corrupted".
That should be the usual experience for (almost) everyone reading this thread.
Doing it launcher-side is fairly impossible for us modders.
CurseForge hosting also solves the FTB launcher problem (they're switching to Curse after it goes out of Beta), and can be used by ATL, and Technic, and anyone else. Seriously, I feel like a broken record praising on the new curse system, but it is THAT GOOD. I've used the launcher off and on for years for my World of Warcraft addons, and their WoW client? It sucks. It's the only option and it does what it is supposed to, but gods if there was a decent option I would be using it right now. I've seen all the insanity like the viruses from hijacked ads, dealt with updating 100+ mods... ONE... AT... A... TIME, waiting for each to download AND INSTALL before clicking the next one because otherwise I might get that stupid "UPGRADE TO PREMIUM! GIVE US MONEY TO STOP NAGGING YOU" popup. I'm in no way shape or form a Curse fanboy. The MCF forums have gone continuously downhill since they took over, I hate gamepedia as a wiki portal/host. Seriously I've got lists that are taller than me and could talk for hours upon hours about the things I don't like about Curse. For anyone that's seen some of my posts, that should come as no surprise (Me? Verbose? <sarcasm> Perish the thought! </sarcasm>). The curse system for MC mods really is that good. They were in talks with FTB and mod authors throughout most of the development process of the launcher beta and curseforge. They are trying to do this right, in a way that the MC community will like and USE. In my estimation? Unless you've got a serious hate-on for Curse? There are basically no real downsides to using the system, or at least none that I've seen excepting possibly the baked-in-permission to be used in uncurated user-submitted Curse Client packs. Which for all the other benefits? Is certainly worth it to me. Also it's a non-exclusive license. You can totally host wherever the crap you want in addition to Curse!