Regarding Private Modpacks

[retep998]

The central mods permissions topic is for mods that the FTB team have permissions for. These permissions DO NOT cover private mod packs so people who want to set up a pack, when we can, will have to go get permission for something the FTB team could have covered by getting permission for ANY modpack that is distributed through the FTB launcher. Especially, since the FTB team has to approve your private mod pack AND you have to provide permission for mods not in that pack.

In essence ANY mod already in an FTB Official pack should have been covered so people don't have to bombard mod authors with hundreds of requests to add their mod to one's private pack. Would you rather them spend time posting yes you can or no you can't or spending time developing the mods we all love or, better yet, taking a break from modding to spend time with loved ones so they can come back to developing fresh and ready to make the magic!!

Just look at this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsuKLj6RIQ8idFR3cFoxVXQzYVU4U3NLSVF5MnBGUEE
Almost all of the mods on that list can be included in your FTB private pack with minimal hassle, by just providing credits as required and showing the FTB team that spreadsheet.
Any mod which isn't on that list, many will state on their topic that private modpacks are allowed. Others, just send them a PM stating you're making a private pack for your private MC server and I'm sure they'll say yes.

 

[MagisterXero]

I have nothing against Tekkit, since that is someone else's business.
However, being a programmer myself for a living, if I put something out in the world and copyrighted it, you can bet your ass I'd want people to provide me credit where it is due.
The fact that you bring up Tekkit's zip pack ability, proves you don't actually care enough about credit to whoever made the mods.

The central mods permissions topic is for mods that the FTB team have permissions for. These permissions DO NOT cover private mod packs so people who want to set up a pack, when we can, will have to go get permission for something the FTB team could have covered by getting permission for ANY modpack that is distributed through the FTB launcher. Especially, since the FTB team has to approve your private mod pack AND you have to provide permission for mods not in that pack.

In essence ANY mod already in an FTB Official pack should have been covered so people don't have to bombard mod authors with hundreds of requests to add their mod to one's private pack. Would you rather them spend time posting yes you can or no you can't or spending time developing the mods we all love or, better yet, taking a break from modding to spend time with loved ones so they can come back to developing fresh and ready to make the magic!!

Before you start rambling on about the central mods permission topic.
Let's take for example:

Any pack is free to use Mekanism and any of its modules without my permission as long as they credit me in their post and follow my guidelines, which can be found on it's GitHub repo.

-aidancbrady

Deeper analysis of THIS statement:

These permissions DO NOT cover private mod packs

Tell the full story, or don't tell it at all.
Several posts within the Central Mod Permissions thread CLEARLY state whether they allow ALL packs or just FTB official.

 

[Watchful11]

And it's up.
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/guidelines-for-private-mod-packs.9598/
Post here if you have any questions.

 

[Mooseman9]

However, being a programmer myself for a living, if I put something out in the world and copyrighted it, you can bet your ass I'd want people to provide me credit where it is due.

Sorry to burst your imaginary bubble, but mods are in no way copyrighted. At all.

 

[MagisterXero]

Sorry to burst your imaginary bubble, but mods are in no way copyrighted. At all.

That depends.

Intellectual Property copyrights can be submitted and filed for. Will most mod authors go that far? No.

Either way, it's the attitude of people like you, who make it so that the mod authors won't even want to keep creating mods beyond what they do now.

 

[afa7336]

Sorry to burst your imaginary bubble, but mods are in no way copyrighted. At all.

Hate to burst your bubble, but you might want to do a little more research before speaking. Like I did, when I had someone who does this for a living (She's a Corporate IP/Copyright lawyer by day, MUSH player by night) explain it to me. You have two treaties that apply to this instance, the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works which the key statement here states that Copyright must be automatic. The second is World Intellectual Property Organization Copyright Treaty which further provides protection for digital media and other IT stuff. Including, I might add, prohibits tampering with ANY DRM an author so chooses to put in place. Now there technically is no international copyright law, only those signing the treaty(s) are bound to follow them.

Now the next thing we will look at is in the US, is copyright automatic? Well, yes it is according to the US Copyright office, as soon as they are created and into a fixed medium (i.e. computer file), with no need to register. How about Derivative works, surely they can't be copyrighted? Oh contrare, yes they can. In this case, mods are different enough that they fall under derivative works. Also Minecraft has stated in their ToU (Terms of Use) that 'Plugins for the game also belong to you'. As well, mods containing original arts (I.E. stuff that the author created his/her self is copyrighted as well.)

Now had enough, or shall I continue Mooseman9?

*As we know, Mods according to Mojang and their new API they want to call them plugins.

Edit: Last thing, to put a thorn into your side once more. Curse, as an Agent for Mojang has not only authorized modding but by stating to copyright said mods given full rights to the mod creators.

Edit 2: Authorize is the right word, in a sense, because after all this time they don't have a leg to stand on. But in the beginning they could have fought it and claimed that they didn't tell Curse to do it. But now, they actually can't fight it because of the passage of time, and their employees working with modders of different shades. (Edited with the latest info to keep everything on the up and up)

 

[MagisterXero]

Hate to burst your bubble, but you might want to do a little more research before speaking. Like I did, when I had someone who does this for a living (She's a Corporate IP/Copyright lawyer by day, MUSH player by night) explain it to me. You have two treaties that apply to this instance, the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works which the key statement here states that Copyright must be automatic. The second is World Intellectual Property Organization Copyright Treaty which further provides protection for digital media and other IT stuff. Including, I might add, prohibits tampering with ANY DRM an author so chooses to put in place. Now there technically is no international copyright law, only those signing the treaty(s) are bound to follow them.

Now the next thing we will look at is in the US, is copyright automatic? Well, yes it is according to the US Copyright office, as soon as they are created and into a fixed medium (i.e. computer file), with no need to register. How about Derivative works, surely they can't be copyrighted? Oh contrare, yes they can. In this case, mods are different enough that they fall under derivative works. Also Minecraft has stated in their ToU (Terms of Use) that 'Plugins for the game also belong to you'. As well, mods containing original arts (I.E. stuff that the author created his/her self is copyrighted as well.)

Now had enough, or shall I continue Mooseman9?

*As we know, Mods according to Mojang and their new API they want to call them plugins.

Ouch. That's a major burn on someone's pride.

 

[afa7336]

Ouch. That's a major burn on someone's pride.

Hehe, I aim to please. When it came up in the past, before I opened my mouth I decided to know what the hell I was talking about, to make sure I didn't end up with shit all over my face. I knew she was a lawyer, and when I found out she did that specifically, well it was to easy not to pass up and asked her to explain it to me in simple English, and she did.

 

[afa7336]

Watchfull11, I want to thank you for answering my questions.

I still have some reservations though, and wanted to get some insight on them. Why choose one day a week? Due to manpower I take it? The concern for me, of course, is mods that update and have bug fixes. We are seeing it currently with Forestry (Both packs are 1 version behind and he released it yesterday I believe) and other mods, we saw it in the past with Thermal Expansion (5 bugfix updates in a week). We are seeing it with both the Direwolf and the Mindcrack packs presently. If you're offering a way to distribute for private servers, saying update yourselves till we get around to it seems a little crappy.

 

[Watchful11]

Due to security restrictions, there are only a few people who can upload to the repo. To keep things simpler, so that we don't always have to track them down and bug them to do the uploads, we decided to pile up all the things that needed to be uploaded and have them do it at a specific time. We might move to 2 days a week.

There may be bugfixes, but you really shouldn't need to update your pack every other day, just wait till a mod is stable before putting it in.
I only update my personal server pack every 2 weeks or so.

 

[afa7336]

Due to security restrictions, there are only a few people who can upload to the repo. To keep things simpler, so that we don't always have to track them down and bug them to do the uploads, we decided to pile up all the things that needed to be uploaded and have them do it at a specific time. We might move to 2 days a week.

There may be bugfixes, but you really shouldn't need to update your pack every other day, just wait till a mod is stable before putting it in.
I only update my personal server pack every 2 weeks or so.

I do understand that, don't get me wrong. InfoSec is a big deal, but there comes a time when you have to balance InfoSec with the real world. But when a mod like forestry updates with and I am semi-quoting here because he removed the changelog '87% (Thats's fucking huge performance boost) network usage fix, and fixes trees being able to be obtained' I think that is a needed update (Though that was the 1.7 branch and was never pushed to anyone in the mindcrack or direwolf pack. Look at the current packs, you're still on the 4 branch of Iron chests and he's released 5 branch and that was on 2013-01-22 08:58:25 and we're something like 16ish rough count behind update wise on that) Currently Sengirs 2.0.0.3 fixes removal of tile entities, loss of items, consuming 2 items rather then one, things not being breedable, piping bees into things fixed, etc. Some updates that say add a new pretty block, I agree can wait, others... others that fix some big things can't. I personally will be recommending to use this, I just want you guys to see what I feel is a major gap that is occuring and want to do all in my power to fix it.

 

[B45op]

Due to security restrictions, there are only a few people who can upload to the repo. To keep things simpler, so that we don't always have to track them down and bug them to do the uploads, we decided to pile up all the things that needed to be uploaded and have them do it at a specific time. We might move to 2 days a week.

There may be bugfixes, but you really shouldn't need to update your pack every other day, just wait till a mod is stable before putting it in.
I only update my personal server pack every 2 weeks or so.

Thanks for the replies watchful I know we have all been on here somewhat pestering about info on how to go about all of this. I just hope that with the number of packs you will be able to keep up with them all with out burning yourself out.
as for updates I agree you only need to do a version update to get the new stuff every once in a while. bug fixes well that depends on the size of the bug and hey if your server is stable to begin with then you have little reason for not waiting.

I was playing with linux a bit and got the thought that it would be awesome if this was all created in the style of a linux repository where say you install this pack and it reads off a file of what mods that pack needs (its dependancies) and gathers them from a ftb repo. in this manner the repo would only need to keep the mods updated which im sure could be left to the authors or a few people with requests for updates and so on. its a dream

anyway keep up the great work I will be submitting my own pack in a bit once I have it all stable, tested, up to date and stuff.

 

[Sertas]

I see the policy has been posted.

 

[Watchful11]

I know the bugfixes are important, but I'm saying you shouldn't put the first major update of a mod in your pack, you should wait for the bugfixes before updating.
Also, we currently have about a dozen private mod pack submissions and we are anticipating many more. It would be impossible to keep up with all of them updating every few days.

Edit: B45op
That would indeed be a wonderful dream. If I had designed the launcher in the first place I would probably have done something like that. But there are 2 problems. First, obviously, the launcher would require a major rewrite from our already overworked devs. Second, the way we have it now, it is your(the submitter of the pack) responsibility to test the pack and make sure there are no bugs. If we on our end are actually putting the pack together, then there would inevitably be lots of errors that we would have to fix, which would probably just result in lots of frustration.

But again, I agree, if we could make it work, that would be a much better way to do it.

 

[MagisterXero]

I do understand that, don't get me wrong. InfoSec is a big deal, but there comes a time when you have to balance InfoSec with the real world. But when a mod like forestry updates with and I am semi-quoting here because he removed the changelog '87% (Thats's fucking huge performance boost) network usage fix, and fixes trees being able to be obtained' I think that is a needed update (Though that was the 1.7 branch and was never pushed to anyone in the mindcrack or direwolf pack. Look at the current packs, you're still on the 4 branch of Iron chests and he's released 5 branch and that was on 2013-01-22 08:58:25 and we're something like 16ish rough count behind update wise on that) Currently Sengirs 2.0.0.3 fixes removal of tile entities, loss of items, consuming 2 items rather then one, things not being breedable, piping bees into things fixed, etc. Some updates that say add a new pretty block, I agree can wait, others... others that fix some big things can't. I personally will be recommending to use this, I just want you guys to see what I feel is a major gap that is occuring and want to do all in my power to fix it.

I think, if someone is able to do it at least, there would be a way to automate the process in some form.

Perhaps a "Depository" page somewhere on a website, requiring the private mod pack author to input (after their first submission is released) their private mod pack code, a "confirmation" code from one of the permissions handling guys, and the link to the updated mod pack zip.
The website would then verify the confirmation code, mod pack private code to be accurate, and then download the zip file from the link.
This would require a couple different things, firstly being a page where the permissions handlers can input a person's code, private pack, and zip file for the first time, and then therein just updating a "one time" confirmation of new permissions code.
The second thing it would require, and I'm not entirely sure about the back end architecture of the launcher, but it would require that the launcher had some sort of system, database, xml, json, to read that an update happened and grab the new pack.

 

[Ashzification]

Spoiler

Hate to burst your bubble, but you might want to do a little more research before speaking. Like I did, when I had someone who does this for a living (She's a Corporate IP/Copyright lawyer by day, MUSH player by night) explain it to me. You have two treaties that apply to this instance, the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works which the key statement here states that Copyright must be automatic. The second is World Intellectual Property Organization Copyright Treaty which further provides protection for digital media and other IT stuff. Including, I might add, prohibits tampering with ANY DRM an author so chooses to put in place. Now there technically is no international copyright law, only those signing the treaty(s) are bound to follow them.

Now the next thing we will look at is in the US, is copyright automatic? Well, yes it is according to the US Copyright office, as soon as they are created and into a fixed medium (i.e. computer file), with no need to register. How about Derivative works, surely they can't be copyrighted? Oh contrare, yes they can. In this case, mods are different enough that they fall under derivative works. Also Minecraft has stated in their ToU (Terms of Use) that 'Plugins for the game also belong to you'. As well, mods containing original arts (I.E. stuff that the author created his/her self is copyrighted as well.)

Now had enough, or shall I continue Mooseman9?

*As we know, Mods according to Mojang and their new API they want to call them plugins.

Edit: Last thing, to put a thorn into your side once more. Curse, as an Agent for Mojang has not only authorized modding but by stating to copyright said mods given full rights to the mod creators.

Edit 2: Authorize is the right word, in a sense, because after all this time they don't have a leg to stand on. But in the beginning they could have fought it and claimed that they didn't tell Curse to do it. But now, they actually can't fight it because of the passage of time, and their employees working with modders of different shades. (Edited with the latest info to keep everything on the up and up)

A bit offtopic, but can you explain what other IT stuff (from "The second is World Intellectual Property Organization Copyright Treaty which further provides protection for digital media and other IT stuff") means?

Also, Watchful11, tweeted your guidelines, and I'll refer anyone on the help desk to it from now on

 

[Watchful11]

Also, Watchful11, tweeted your guidelines, and I'll refer anyone on the help desk to it from now on

Thanks, I'm just glad I finally got it up.
Edit:

I think, if someone is able to do it at least, there would be a way to automate the process in some form.

Perhaps a "Depository" page somewhere on a website, requiring the private mod pack author to input (after their first submission is released) their private mod pack code, a "confirmation" code from one of the permissions handling guys, and the link to the updated mod pack zip.
The website would then verify the confirmation code, mod pack private code to be accurate, and then download the zip file from the link.
This would require a couple different things, firstly being a page where the permissions handlers can input a person's code, private pack, and zip file for the first time, and then therein just updating a "one time" confirmation of new permissions code.
The second thing it would require, and I'm not entirely sure about the back end architecture of the launcher, but it would require that the launcher had some sort of system, database, xml, json, to read that an update happened and grab the new pack.

We don't have any official plans, but I can assure you, we don't plan on handling the entire thing through pm's forever.

 

[MagisterXero]

Thanks, I'm just glad I finally got it up.
Edit:

We don't have any official plans, but I can assure you, we don't plan on handling the entire thing through pm's forever.

Oh I know, you've told me via PM before.
I'm just seeing if I can provide an external POV on the matter. I do website design & programming for a living. Lol
More than 1 way to accomplish the given tasks, but I think something like what I mentioned would be fairly effective.
The permissions would still require validation, and the private pack owners could upload any time once that is done.

 

[afa7336]

A bit offtopic, but can you explain what other IT stuff (from "The second is World Intellectual Property Organization Copyright Treaty which further provides protection for digital media and other IT stuff") means?

My understanding is limited, but as she puts it, it provides protection for some forms of databases where one compiles things such that it is their own copyright entirely. (This does not include modpacks, from my understanding, because the owners of some copyrights don't allow it. *They basically have to give up their copyright to it all.) Basically WIPO was created to cover the gap between the Berne treaty with regards to Copyright since well, it didn't cover technological aspects. When she gets done her day, I can see if she will explain that better to me.

And Watchful, gotcha.

*Edit inserted, it just didn't sound clear in my mind.

 

[delicateglow]

So I noticed there's a few differences in the Private Modpack guidelines. Shall I resubmit my pack?