Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread

[ScottulusMaximus]

Eh ok, I see ur point... Guess I'm old school when this thread was used for discussing mod updates rather than a dumping ground for drama

 

[Reika]

I do think that designing a feature to deliberately be annoying is a bad idea.
Sure, were not his customers, we didn't pay for anything and Reika doesn't owe us anything. But that doesn't mean that we have to put up with anything that is designed to nag us.
Even if it's his property, he should always keep the people in mind who are going to use it thousand-fold. Note that this doesn't have to mean catering all their wishes.

I do appreciate it that he promised to improve it next update. I hope he finds the right balance.

Problem is, for some people, unless you do cater to their wishes directly, you are "litorrally hitler [sic]" who "doesn't care about anyone else but himself" and "almost looks like he is trying to make everyone hate him". Not to forget that it "violates every known rule of modding" and "is the kind of thing FTB should blackball developers for".

 

[NJM1564]

Standard disclaimer about my opinions not being representative of those of any team I am part of.

I don't care about what else you said, I have to take issues with this.
No matter what a modder does, if it is in their code, it is their right to do so. Their code is their IP, and they have control over what happens to it.

That's not entirely true. It's their code until they distribute it. Then their code becomes other peoples problems too.
For example. You would not be allowed to distribute code that has a virus in it. Nor Malware. Or even spam.

So the question can becom does those messages count as any of those. And in fact they could count as spam.
And whether or not it is is determined entirely by the individuals that has to put up with it.

 

[NJM1564]

It was suggested that this be REDthreaded. This is (not really recent but whatever) an event, in which Reika put the update banner in. It's been a consistent (if slow) drama war since the implementation. I suppose we *could* get a drama megathread, but that's not really a good idea.

We already have that it's called the internet. Or reddit.

 

[Padfoote]

That's not entirely true. It's their code until they distribute it. Then their code becomes other peoples problems too.
For example. You would not be allowed to distribute code that has a virus in it. Nor Malware. Or even spam.

So the question can becom does those messages count as any of those. And in fact they could count as spam.
And whether or not it is is determined entirely by the individuals that has to put up with it.

It is still the author's property even after release. Claiming otherwise is ignorant and selfish. This is regardless of the content of the code as well.

 

[trajing]

My opinion is my own and not representative of the opinion of any teams I am part of.

That's not entirely true. It's their code until they distribute it. Then their code becomes other peoples problems too.
For example. You would not be allowed to distribute code that has a virus in it. Nor Malware. Or even spam.

So the question can becom does those messages count as any of those. And in fact they could count as spam.
And whether or not it is is determined entirely by the individuals that has to put up with it.

No. It is their IP. So long as it is not violating a law, they have complete and total control over their code. They get to choose the license, which tells people what they may or may not do with the code. If they want, their license can simply be all rights reserved, which means that the only things you can do with it is that allowed for everything by law. Modders are not distributing malware, as it is not affecting anything outside of your Minecraft installation, nor does it prevent you from removing it. Also, spam is not software. Reika's messages, from what I have seen (more on this later), do not fall under the definitions of either malware or spam, and if they do, your dictionary is a little more harsh than mine.

Note that I'm going to stay neutral in this argument until I've seen more - I haven't played much Minecraft in a while, I'm a bit burnt out. Lately I've been coding instead of playing MC.

EDIT: 5-minute ninja.
Padfoote's point can be considered a TL;DR of mine.

 

[Someone Else 37]

Another argument about Reika's update banner? Gah... *feels embarrassed for humanity*

 

[Reika]

Another argument about Reika's update banner? Gah... *feels embarrassed for humanity*

Especially considering it is being redesigned as I write this.


But honestly, I like it when these sorts of debates crop up. I would rather see what people actually think rather than just letting their opinions fester and then manifest as a "break Reika's DRM" mod 6 months later.

 

[TomeWyrm]

See? This thread is becoming the "off topic thread". It was originally designed for off-topic-in-news, but the community is progressing it to all off topic conversations.

You're going to KEEP getting arguments about that update banner for some time now. Annoying users is a great way to incite passionate negative commentary. Until the banner goes away, that discussion is going to be like a weeble. Hopefully the new idea works better, but honestly the "no perma-disable" thing is going to permanently piss off some people with legitimate circumstances that are being hit with splash damage in this war against lazy users that waste modder's time.

Also any creator's rights end at their creation. You basically have control over where and how it goes places, and most of the time who gets to interact with it. But you never get total control over how someone interacts with it unless that interaction occurs in a space you also own. Location ownership trumps many of the rights of item ownership. When your code enters my machine? Most of your rights are subsumed by mine until such time as it leaves my machine. Put another way: An author can say who can read their story, but they can never say HOW those people have to read that story, or even that they have to read it at all. An artist can say whatever they want about me wearing red/cyan 3D glasses while viewing their piece, but they don't have any legs to stand on there. Similarly, when your mod is running on my computer, I have full say on what is ok and what is not ok. If your mod annoys me while I'm playing it, I have every right to come complain. You have every right not to listen to me, but that doesn't invalidate my right to criticize. If it did, journalist and critic would not be professions

 

[Padfoote]

See? This thread is becoming the "off topic thread". It was originally designed for off-topic-in-news, but the community is progressing it to all off topic conversations.

Erm, no, not really. This is still MC related, and I would argue still relevant as it wasn't too long ago that this feature was released IIRC. There is also a significant difference between Reika's mods and the political nature of the United States.

 

[xbony2]

Erm, no, not really. This is still MC related, and I would argue still relevant as it wasn't too long ago that this feature was released IIRC. There is also a significant difference between Reika's mods and the political nature of the United States.

Not like there's plenty of other places for discussions of US Politics.

 

[psp]

See? This thread is becoming the "off topic thread". It was originally designed for off-topic-in-news, but the community is progressing it to all off topic conversations.

You're going to KEEP getting arguments about that update banner for some time now. Annoying users is a great way to incite passionate negative commentary. Until the banner goes away, that discussion is going to be like a weeble. Hopefully the new idea works better, but honestly the "no perma-disable" thing is going to permanently piss off some people with legitimate circumstances that are being hit with splash damage in this war against lazy users that waste modder's time.

Also any creator's rights end at their creation. You basically have control over where and how it goes places, and most of the time who gets to interact with it. But you never get total control over how someone interacts with it unless that interaction occurs in a space you also own. Location ownership trumps many of the rights of item ownership. When your code enters my machine? Most of your rights are subsumed by mine until such time as it leaves my machine. Put another way: An author can say who can read their story, but they can never say HOW those people have to read that story, or even that they have to read it at all. An artist can say whatever they want about me wearing red/cyan 3D glasses while viewing their piece, but they don't have any legs to stand on there. Similarly, when your mod is running on my computer, I have full say on what is ok and what is not ok. If your mod annoys me while I'm playing it, I have every right to come complain. You have every right not to listen to me, but that doesn't invalidate my right to criticize. If it did, journalist and critic would not be professions

You seem to be trying to replicate the philosophical debate question,"When a tree falls, is there a sound made if no one is there to hear it?". (It's something along those lines)
At least, that is what it seems to me.

 

[NJM1564]

It is still the author's property even after release. Claiming otherwise is ignorant and selfish. This is regardless of the content of the code as well.

I didn't say it became anyone elses property. I said:

Then their code becomes other peoples problems too.

 

[trajing]

I didn't say it became anyone elses property. I said:

The owner (because let's face it, this doesn't only apply to modding) still has control over their code. It doesn't matter if it's now your problem. It is your right to complain, but it is also the owner's right to ignore you.

 

[NJM1564]

You seem to be trying to replicate the philosophical debate question,"When a tree falls, is there a sound made if no one is there to hear it?". (It's something along those lines)
At least, that is what it seems to me.

It could also be described as a quantum physics debate. Something that is and at the same time is not both and nether.

 

[NJM1564]

The owner (because let's face it, this doesn't only apply to modding) still has control over their code. It doesn't matter if it's now your problem. It is your right to complain, but it is also the owner's right to ignore you.

Correct. Absolute control. Until it's downloaded. Then his Intellectual property becomes my physical property. It becomes a physical extension of my computer.
Once it's on my PC I can edit the crap out of it and he can't do anything about it other than complain regardless of what ever property right he might or might not have.
Of coarse distributing that code is another matter entirely. In theory, even if so much a bit or bit of code is the same he could sue the crap out of me.

 

[VapourDrive]

As the thread owner: This thread was created to avoid cluttering the Whats New thread. That is the only firm basis for it's origin.

Now as for what should be talked about here, a couple of things:

• Minecraft related. Other areas may tie into the minecraft world but don't stretch it (vanilla, modded, packs, texturepacks, meh)
  
• Topics that the community can benefit from currently discussing. If the events happened a month ago, or a year ago and it actually benefits the community to talk about it now, that mean that whatever it is hasn't been resolved or is still relevant.

What should not be talked about.

• Anything that does not benefit the community at all. Yes this an ambiguous rule, judgement calls are made all the time concerning it.
• If the discussion is hateful towards someone it does not belong here. Period. You may not agree with something someone has said or done, and respectfully bringing up quality points is cool, flaming/hating/gossiping about/shaming is not cool.
• If a topic has a dedicated thread because it has monopolized pages and pages of this thread it gets discussed there, not here anymore.
• If a topic has been deemed "resolved" don't beat the dead horse. If people agree to disagree and "all" points have been brought forwards, talking about it more is inevitable not going to produce healthy, pleasant discussion.

If you acknowledge that a conversation is being held between two people instead of a legitimate discussion you may want to consider a forum conversation, but I understand that other people may still benefit from hearing what you have to say.

We have a great community here with Feed the Beast, we don't all share the same opinion and that is completely ok, we can still discuss things. People can generally be trusted to remain respectful to one another and be generally decent. This will hopefully continue.

 

[Reika]

I think this is relevant - here is the new version message:

 

[1M Industries]

I think this is relevant - here is the new version message:

I like it!

 

[Someone Else 37]

I think this is relevant - here is the new version message:

That... is likely to generate significantly fewer angry emails, posts, and PMs. I approve.

The "Hold CTRL to be able to click this message" bit is kinda funny, but undoubtedly necessary.