Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread

[TomeWyrm]

MFR is an older mod than 98% of the mods out today. It was designed specifically to eliminate the grind of vanilla. If you think its OP, then your pack isn't properly balanced for your tastes. That's not MFR's fault.

As compared to most of the other farming options? It's overly powerful for the cost. Over Powered. Literally. The only automated methods I've seen that can compare or exceed speed-wise use TE accelerators (Tile Entity, not Thermal Expansion), or are RotaryCraft. Which is not a bad thing IMHO. Farming is STUPID tedious grindy obnoxious, and having as much of whatever on hand as you want that's growable makes perfect sense, preferably without lagging my game to hell with 50 thousand TE's or worse *shudder* entities. I mean Golems are cool looking and all, and not having to run cables is neato... but ye gods the performance hit and just general entity screwiness of MC. I'll take magic block OP mod that says "Your balance is meaningless, quit complaining" any day of the week! That was a paraphrase, but the maintainers/authors of MFR have repeatedly stated that the traditional difficulty arguments don't enter the picture when they are making/updating the mod. MFR is designed to make the game easier and therefore more fun. Period. That makes it OP compared to the vast majority of mods, but that is LITERALLY what it was designed to be.

Are you speaking to me...?
I said it was OP jokingly. I love it to death and know that it's been around since the dawn of time and think it's fairly well balanced; it's not an "every machine in one" mod at all, which is awesome. I feel really challenged by MFR to build a production line for... Cows, apparently.
It's really powerful once you get it working, which I jokingly call "OP" (much like many call ore-doubling OP, though a large fraction of those actually mean it...).
On the "List of FTB Automation Challenges," automating the entire MFR farm chain is way up there, right up above "Automatic Diamonds from Nothing" (which I have built).

Define "entire". Because the farm loop was trivial last time I checked.

Logos ingame are most of the credit many modders ever get. I should really start doing that...

Please for the love of cephalopods not on everything. There are reasonable places to put logos, and on any block(s) you can expect to see multiples of in reasonable proximity is NOT IT.

Edit:

Greg has his mod setup as if there was a company behind those machines, hence the constant references to it on his forum post and the in game books. From that standpoint it makes perfect sense for his logo to be everywhere.

See previous comment

 

[Padfoote]

Please for the love of cephalopods not on everything. There are reasonable places to put logos, and on any block(s) you can expect to see multiples of in reasonable proximity is NOT IT.

Edit:


See previous comment

It really is not that big of a deal if you consider how he has the mod setup. He has it so there's a company behind everything. You cannot find an appliance in most homes that does not have the company logo on it somewhere yet people don't complain about that. It should be the same thing here.

In the end it's his mod to do with what he wants. Doesn't matter how much it annoys people in the process.

 

[Eruantien]

In the end, most logos are better than seeing this on a new delivery:

Spoiler

 

[Jnelso99]

ACME: We'll put rockets on anything.

 

[keybounce]

Phrankly, I'd like to see the Phubahr logo, but I'm sure it's copywrited.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Sorry to be the party pooper- but thats not his logo.

Take a closer look at that bottom coin; its actually a full sprocket/gear and not the G-shaped sprocket.​

However his face on the moon would be a brilliant gag feature- make it happen Greg!!

 

[Type1Ninja]

As compared to most of the other farming options? It's overly powerful for the cost. Over Powered. Literally. The only automated methods I've seen that can compare or exceed speed-wise use TE accelerators (Tile Entity, not Thermal Expansion), or are RotaryCraft. Which is not a bad thing IMHO. Farming is STUPID tedious grindy obnoxious, and having as much of whatever on hand as you want that's growable makes perfect sense, preferably without lagging my game to hell with 50 thousand TE's or worse *shudder* entities. I mean Golems are cool looking and all, and not having to run cables is neato... but ye gods the performance hit and just general entity screwiness of MC. I'll take magic block OP mod that says "Your balance is meaningless, quit complaining" any day of the week! That was a paraphrase, but the maintainers/authors of MFR have repeatedly stated that the traditional difficulty arguments don't enter the picture when they are making/updating the mod. MFR is designed to make the game easier and therefore more fun. Period. That makes it OP compared to the vast majority of mods, but that is LITERALLY what it was designed to be.

Define "entire". Because the farm loop was trivial last time I checked.

Please for the love of cephalopods not on everything. There are reasonable places to put logos, and on any block(s) you can expect to see multiples of in reasonable proximity is NOT IT.

Edit:


See previous comment

I would say that MFR is "easy" but not OP. OP is so easy it isn't fun; MFR is both fun AND easy. Plus it is easy in terms of crafting recipes only; the ENTIRE loop is truly quite long...

Start with a planter. Now you need a harvester. Power that and you're done, right? Sure! But you can do more...
Set up a fertilizer. For that, you need a composter composting poop. So set up a sewer underneath a cow and you're set!
Until you see the breeder. So you set that up, so that some of your farm's produce is used to make more poop to make the farm faster. Then you realize there's a chronotyper and a grinder/slaughterhouse, and decide to automate the killing your livestock as well, and process the drops, which is either a furnace for whatever drop or a meat packer for meat.
That ends up being a sizable amount of work just to craft it; organizing it properly and building the network of transport, power, and sorting isn't even on the list, which is most of the challenge.

Added challenge, only tangientially related to farming and for awesome people only:
1. Do it WITHOUT Steve's Factory Manager.
2. Instead of a slaughterhouse, use a grinder (and process the drops). Set up the grinder to send mob essence to an autospawner spawning mobs of your choice (endermen are nice ). Send those to another grinder, which sends THAT essence to ANOTHER autospawner, spawning any other (low-threat) type of mob, which is sent to a slaughterhouse for meat packing.

So, with ALL of that, you get:
1. The drops of whatever plants you're trying to grow - wheat, carrots, potatoes, other modded crops, any kind of tree products...
2. Either farm animal products or meat ingots and pink slime, depending on whether you used a grinder or a slaughterhouse.

If you set up the "Awesome Only" challenge, you also get...
3. The mob drops of whatever farm animal
4. The mob drops of your mob of choice - this could be ender pearls, blaze rods, wither skeleton skulls, or even more mundane drops.
5. Meat ingots and pink slime

Automate that in survival and post screenshots.
When you're done, THEN I give you permission to call it trivial. I'll still disagree, but I won't bug you about it.

 

[trajing]

OP varies from person to person. As a person who's used to a slightly higher (higher meaning more effort) effort:reward ratio, I certainly consider MFR OP. However, other people think differently, and it isn't my job to convince them otherwise.

 

[ljfa]

MFR is easy to get into and to get simple tasks done quickly. But if you want to be more efficient or elaborate you need to dig deeper and create more infrastructure.
In its essence it's still easier than most other mods though.

 

[Type1Ninja]

MFR is easy to get into and to get simple tasks done quickly. But if you want to be more efficient or elaborate you need to dig deeper and create more infrastructure.
In its essence it's still easier than most other mods though.

Exactly.
The basic stuff is easy, and definitely more powerful for the effort compared to other mods.
The effort of getting the really good stuff all working in sync adds some balance. While each machine cheap, setting up the entire system is definitely more expensive than the sum of its parts.

 

[Equitime]

Exactly.
The basic stuff is easy, and definitely more powerful for the effort compared to other mods.
The effort of getting the really good stuff all working in sync adds some balance. While each machine cheap, setting up the entire system is definitely more expensive than the sum of its parts.

Just following this line of thought. Don't forget the people new to mods who need something acheiveable. Mfr may be easy but that's up to the individual themselves if they want to go that path. Personally it's got some great ideas.

 

[Golrith]

MFR is like the old Forestry mod, lots of small parts that can interlink. Before you know it, you've got a big interlinked system, if you wish as nothing is forced on you. Yes recipes can be cheap, but there are config options to make recipes more TE or EnderIO style/costs, and if that's not enough, there's always minetweaker.

Just wish that there was config option that sludge producing machines stop working if their internal buffer fills.

 

[Someone Else 37]

MFR is like the old Forestry mod, lots of small parts that can interlink. Before you know it, you've got a big interlinked system, if you wish as nothing is forced on you. Yes recipes can be cheap, but there are config options to make recipes more TE or EnderIO style/costs, and if that's not enough, there's always minetweaker.

Just wish that there was config option that sludge producing machines stop working if their internal buffer fills.

They do slow down considerably, which is typically enough to motivate people to use a void pipe or Sludge Boiler anyhow.

 

[karmarcharger]

MFR is like the old Forestry mod, lots of small parts that can interlink. Before you know it, you've got a big interlinked system, if you wish as nothing is forced on you. Yes recipes can be cheap, but there are config options to make recipes more TE or EnderIO style/costs, and if that's not enough, there's always minetweaker.

Just wish that there was config option that sludge producing machines stop working if their internal buffer fills.

I am pretty sure the main issue is that its a brainless nature of the mod... Basically a 1 block farm, that you pump RF into to get infinite wood.... Unlike how you need to think in Steve carts etc...

 

[Type1Ninja]

I am pretty sure the main issue is that its a brainless nature of the mod... Basically a 1 block farm, that you pump RF into to get infinite wood.... Unlike how you need to think in Steve carts etc...

Egads, did you not read any of what was just said...

Spoiler

Start with a planter. Now you need a harvester. Power that and you're done, right? Sure! But you can do more...
Set up a fertilizer. For that, you need a composter composting poop. So set up a sewer underneath a cow and you're set!
Until you see the breeder. So you set that up, so that some of your farm's produce is used to make more poop to make the farm faster. Then you realize there's a chronotyper and a grinder/slaughterhouse, and decide to automate the killing your livestock as well, and process the drops, which is either a furnace for whatever drop or a meat packer for meat.
That ends up being a sizable amount of work just to craft it; organizing it properly and building the network of transport, power, and sorting isn't even on the list, which is most of the challenge.

Added challenge, only tangientially related to farming and for awesome people only:
1. Do it WITHOUT Steve's Factory Manager.
2. Instead of a slaughterhouse, use a grinder (and process the drops). Set up the grinder to send mob essence to an autospawner spawning mobs of your choice (endermen are nice ). Send those to another grinder, which sends THAT essence to ANOTHER autospawner, spawning any other (low-threat) type of mob, which is sent to a slaughterhouse for meat packing.

So, with ALL of that, you get:
1. The drops of whatever plants you're trying to grow - wheat, carrots, potatoes, other modded crops, any kind of tree products...
2. Either farm animal products or meat ingots and pink slime, depending on whether you used a grinder or a slaughterhouse.

If you set up the "Awesome Only" challenge, you also get...
3. The mob drops of whatever farm animal
4. The mob drops of your mob of choice - this could be ender pearls, blaze rods, wither skeleton skulls, or even more mundane drops.
5. Meat ingots and pink slime

THAT is the full farming system and it is not "just one block you need to pump RF into."

 

[karmarcharger]

Egads, did you not read any of what was just said...

Spoiler

Start with a planter. Now you need a harvester. Power that and you're done, right? Sure! But you can do more...
Set up a fertilizer. For that, you need a composter composting poop. So set up a sewer underneath a cow and you're set!
Until you see the breeder. So you set that up, so that some of your farm's produce is used to make more poop to make the farm faster. Then you realize there's a chronotyper and a grinder/slaughterhouse, and decide to automate the killing your livestock as well, and process the drops, which is either a furnace for whatever drop or a meat packer for meat.
That ends up being a sizable amount of work just to craft it; organizing it properly and building the network of transport, power, and sorting isn't even on the list, which is most of the challenge.

Added challenge, only tangientially related to farming and for awesome people only:
1. Do it WITHOUT Steve's Factory Manager.
2. Instead of a slaughterhouse, use a grinder (and process the drops). Set up the grinder to send mob essence to an autospawner spawning mobs of your choice (endermen are nice ). Send those to another grinder, which sends THAT essence to ANOTHER autospawner, spawning any other (low-threat) type of mob, which is sent to a slaughterhouse for meat packing.

So, with ALL of that, you get:
1. The drops of whatever plants you're trying to grow - wheat, carrots, potatoes, other modded crops, any kind of tree products...
2. Either farm animal products or meat ingots and pink slime, depending on whether you used a grinder or a slaughterhouse.

If you set up the "Awesome Only" challenge, you also get...
3. The mob drops of whatever farm animal
4. The mob drops of your mob of choice - this could be ender pearls, blaze rods, wither skeleton skulls, or even more mundane drops.
5. Meat ingots and pink slime

THAT is the full farming system and it is not "just one block you need to pump RF into."

Fine... 1 block for PLANTING, 1 block for HARVESTING.... Still the same... 1 block to perform each task... And unlike EnderIO no tool durability....

The only actual cost of running te farm is RF...

 

[psp]

Egads, did you not read any of what was just said...

Spoiler

Start with a planter. Now you need a harvester. Power that and you're done, right? Sure! But you can do more...
Set up a fertilizer. For that, you need a composter composting poop. So set up a sewer underneath a cow and you're set!
Until you see the breeder. So you set that up, so that some of your farm's produce is used to make more poop to make the farm faster. Then you realize there's a chronotyper and a grinder/slaughterhouse, and decide to automate the killing your livestock as well, and process the drops, which is either a furnace for whatever drop or a meat packer for meat.
That ends up being a sizable amount of work just to craft it; organizing it properly and building the network of transport, power, and sorting isn't even on the list, which is most of the challenge.

Added challenge, only tangientially related to farming and for awesome people only:
1. Do it WITHOUT Steve's Factory Manager.
2. Instead of a slaughterhouse, use a grinder (and process the drops). Set up the grinder to send mob essence to an autospawner spawning mobs of your choice (endermen are nice ). Send those to another grinder, which sends THAT essence to ANOTHER autospawner, spawning any other (low-threat) type of mob, which is sent to a slaughterhouse for meat packing.

So, with ALL of that, you get:
1. The drops of whatever plants you're trying to grow - wheat, carrots, potatoes, other modded crops, any kind of tree products...
2. Either farm animal products or meat ingots and pink slime, depending on whether you used a grinder or a slaughterhouse.

If you set up the "Awesome Only" challenge, you also get...
3. The mob drops of whatever farm animal
4. The mob drops of your mob of choice - this could be ender pearls, blaze rods, wither skeleton skulls, or even more mundane drops.
5. Meat ingots and pink slime

THAT is the full farming system and it is not "just one block you need to pump RF into."

@karmarcharger is right. It essentially is one block. What you are describing is a chain of simple 1 block machines. This is not to say that MRF doesn't have a place, it does, it's just a different type of mod than what you are trying to portray.

 

[Golrith]

I am pretty sure the main issue is that its a brainless nature of the mod... Basically a 1 block farm, that you pump RF into to get infinite wood.... Unlike how you need to think in Steve carts etc...

Which is exactly the same as EnderIO farming station (which is actually worse, as that harvest and plants in one block, but does need tools) and various other farm setups.
If anything Steves Carts is on the extreme end of the scale, purely due to it's very insane crafting recipes AND punishing crafting times, once past that, it's lay a track, configure a manger, and bingo, infinite wood with no much further thinking.
MFR is not a one block farm, you need 2 blocks to plant and harvest, and then you need additional blocks to provide power and item transport.

End of the day, "it does what it says on the tin", which is enough for most people. Other mods and minetweaker are available for the minority.

They do slow down considerably, which is typically enough to motivate people to use a void pipe or Sludge Boiler anyhow.

Never noticed they slow down, but then, I always process my sludge

 

[Type1Ninja]

Fine... 1 block for PLANTING, 1 block for HARVESTING.... Still the same... 1 block to perform each task... And unlike EnderIO no tool durability....

The only actual cost of running te farm is RF...

Correction: 1 block for farming, 1 block for planting, 1 block for waste processing, several blocks with range upgrades to collect sewage, 1 block to turn that into compost, 1 block to use that on the crops. Set up the transport, sorting, and processing network and you're at the size of a small factory. Now set up the REST of MFR's stuff. My entire point is that it's not one block; it's many with simple, easy functions, that need to be hooked up to each other intelligently for maximum efficiency.

@karmarcharger is right. It essentially is one block. What you are describing is a chain of simple 1 block machines. This is not to say that MRF doesn't have a place, it does, it's just a different type of mod than what you are trying to portray.

Yes! A chain of simple 1 block machines! Not one block!
I don't understand how you can say it's one block and then explain that by saying its multiple blocks...
https://xkcd.com/386/
Perhaps the function at the end is powerful, but that comes from the process of networking the entire thing.

 

[trajing]

I can't really complain about MFR much without getting into a subject that's a drama war waiting to happen, so how about we talk about.... uh.... modpacks?