Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread

[TomeWyrm]

Nerd² summed it up pretty much the same as TotalBiscuit.
Nerd was a bit more informal, TotalBiscuit stressed more that the basic idea is sound it's just the implementation that's complete crap. Also the reddit superthread (somewhere... I'm SO no searching that massive thing again) had some form of confirmation that Valve is taking their traditional 30%, and apparently the 45/25 numbers were chosen by Bethesda from the remaining 70%.

Here's the video.

I'm with TB/Nerd/The Internet At Large on this one. Donate good, Patreon great, Early access for money is pushing it (Azanor's style is fine, what happened to Magical Crops isn't "early access" it's a freaking multi-month paywall). Please for the love of god make money for your work! Just don't block access to everyone else, or your stuff is going to die.

Also it's against Mojang's explicit wishes (probably one of their legalese something-or-others) to do the Steam Workshop thing on PC. Thou Shalt Not Charge For Mods and all that. So it will not happen to Modded MC (unless M$ sees the $$$... but with the new CEO, that worries me less than Steve Ballmer would have).

 

[Hyperme]

Considering issues relating to asset theft have already cropped up on the Steam workshop, the idea is already failing. And attempting to monetize what has generally been considered a hobby type thing was always going to have immediate problems.

Also, Minecraft mods 'break' whenever a new version comes out. Do I want to pay actual money on something that could stop working 2 months later? Do I want to risk buying TC4 when Azanor could sudden drop all support to make TC5? What about something like Xycraft, that just stops? It's a mess.

Also, I think this stuff about money still applies .

 

[SpitefulFox]

Considering issues relating to asset theft have already cropped up on the Steam workshop, the idea is already failing. And attempting to monetize what has generally been considered a hobby type thing was always going to have immediate problems.

Also, Minecraft mods 'break' whenever a new version comes out. Do I want to pay actual money on something that could stop working 2 months later? Do I want to risk buying TC4 when Azanor could sudden drop all support to make TC5? What about something like Xycraft, that just stops? It's a mess.

Also, I think this stuff about money still applies .

Why would Mojang monetize mods while also continuing to break them? The assumption is that if mods were monetized, the company would actually be supporting them.

And why spend money on ANY GAME if you know they're going to stop being updated? Minecraft mods aren't unique in that eventually, people just stop updating things.

They're not working on Pokemon Blue anymore, but you don't see me demanding my money back from Nintendo.

 

[Celestialphoenix]

Also, Minecraft mods 'break' whenever a new version comes out. Do I want to pay actual money on something that could stop working 2 months later? Do I want to risk buying TC4 when Azanor could sudden drop all support to make TC5? What about something like Xycraft, that just stops? It's a mess.

Thats not any different to open/early access game development in general. You gamble your money with the hopes that you hit the jackpot, but there's absolutely no guarantee of a return, and certainly not the "buy future awesome game now" system people think it is.
Tonnes of games die during development, though we're normally not aware of it at the consumer level. If you make an ill informed choice and invest in the wrong product, then its no fault but your own.

 

[the_j485]

They're not working on Pokemon Blue anymore, but you don't see me demanding my money back from Nintendo.

That's kind of a bad example, while I get what you're on about. There was no infrastructure to push updates back then, without selling another game. a better example would probably be oblivion.

 

[XolovA]

Considering issues relating to asset theft have already cropped up on the Steam workshop, the idea is already failing. And attempting to monetize what has generally been considered a hobby type thing was always going to have immediate problems.

Also, Minecraft mods 'break' whenever a new version comes out. Do I want to pay actual money on something that could stop working 2 months later? Do I want to risk buying TC4 when Azanor could sudden drop all support to make TC5? What about something like Xycraft, that just stops? It's a mess.

Also, I think this stuff about money still applies .

I think what you said previously is absolutely correct. There isn't a large enough base for it regardless of how popular the mod gets (within reason). Countless times I've heard things like "You're so dumb, if you charged just $1 for each download you'd be a millionaire". - Actually I wouldn't be, because then a large chunk of the player-base would probably not have gotten it anymore because they don't want to pay for things.

In general charging on modding seems strange. As soon as the word 'mod' is attached to something, it instantly sounds pretty unprofessional and just something you can get for free. Few people will pay for things that you can get for free. As soon as something is labeled as it's own game and professionally advertised, it'll sell more (look at DayZ, which more than doubled it's sales than it had downloads as a mod).

 

[RedBoss]

Is this even something on the horizon or just a hypothetical because someone got bored?

From a business perspective, the problems with this entire concept are near infinitesimal. You thought the pay to win server issues were bad? No one would win in a paid mod/subscription model. Well maybe the distributor who's taking payment. The options I have on RR3 equal 203 mods. Condense them into family of mods and that's still over 100 unique entities that would deserve payment. The distributor is taking 25-50% off the tip due to transaction fees, etc. Then there's flat distribution of the remaining income, there's nothing left. Not to mention some mods negotiating for higher rates, ugh.

Now mod devs need 1099 forms, there's tax implications, child labor laws. Shitstorm much?

I worked for a record label in college. Its insane how much artists get ripped off. Its even more insane how much is actually justified in taking in as a label. An official paid model for modding would end modding for Minecraft.

 

[KaosRitual]

Is this even something on the horizon or just a hypothetical because someone got bored?

From a business perspective, the problems with this entire concept are near infinitesimal. You thought the pay to win server issues were bad? No one would win in a paid mod/subscription model. Well maybe the distributor who's taking payment. The options I have on RR3 equal 203 mods. Condense them into family of mods and that's still over 100 unique entities that would deserve payment. The distributor is taking 25-50% off the tip due to transaction fees, etc. Then there's flat distribution of the remaining income, there's nothing left. Not to mention some mods negotiating for higher rates, ugh.

Now mod devs need 1099 forms, there's tax implications, child labor laws. Shitstorm much?

I worked for a record label in college. Its insane how much artists get ripped off. Its even more insane how much is actually justified in taking in as a label. An official paid model for modding would end modding for Minecraft.

What about if instead of straight up selling mods, Mojang made a proper mod API and whatnot, and charged a flat fee for using which was split between modders depending on how much they get downloaded?

 

[asiekierka]

An official paid model for modding would end modding for Minecraft.

No. No it wouldn't. The community would be split into the paid mods with highly detailed graphics but zero gameplay value made for 12-year-olds with too much money and free mods with much slower development but tons of gameplay value and devs who love the craft in the pattern you've described.

 

[Bashful Giant]

What about if instead of straight up selling mods, Mojang made a proper mod API and whatnot, and charged a flat fee for using which was split between modders depending on how much they get downloaded?

User demand for universal pay to play modding would probably be low. Modders would hopefully stick to the last "free" update, and the model abandoned.

On the plus side, we'd get an official modding API

 

[RedBoss]

What about if instead of straight up selling mods, Mojang made a proper mod API and whatnot, and charged a flat fee for using which was split between modders depending on how much they get downloaded?

That seems very problematic since what you're suggesting would be adding micro-transactions within vanilla Minecraft. It goes back to all of my aforementioned points.

Plus, LOL, Mojang is not adding a mod API.

 

[the_j485]

That seems very problematic since what you're suggesting would be adding micro-transactions within vanilla Minecraft. It goes back to all of my aforementioned points.

Plus, LOL, Mojang is not adding a mod API.

What's their actual reason for it?

 

[Bashful Giant]

What's their actual reason for it?

If I had to guess- licensing, time, and caution as to not repeat the Bukkit fiasco.

 

[FyberOptic]

It's like I challenged people on Twitter. If you think paid mods is a good thing, then come up with a price for your favorite mods and go donate that to them today. If you're not willing to donate now then you're not willing to buy it later.

 

[the_j485]

It's like I challenged people on Twitter. If you think paid mods is a good thing, then come up with a price for your favorite mods and go donate that to them today. If you're not willing to donate now then you're not willing to buy it later.

I think, really, 1 or 2 quid is all I'd pay for some common, decent-sized mods, like TE, BC, etc., though I might pay more for the likes of blood magic or thaumcraft.

I think if steam or anyone has to monetise things like mods with a paywall, then it should be an scalable one like humble bundle. You pay a minimum of, say, 50p, and as much as you want up from there.

 

[FyberOptic]

I think, really, 1 or 2 quid is all I'd pay for some common, decent-sized mods, like TE, BC, etc., though I might pay more for the likes of blood magic or thaumcraft.

I think if steam or anyone has to monetise things like mods with a paywall, then it should be an scalable one like humble bundle. You pay a minimum of, say, 50p, and as much as you want up from there.

That's the thing though: how would you know that you liked Blood Magic or Thaumcraft if you'd had to consider paying for it to even try it?

What's next, demo versions of mods?

I think the entire concept is ridiculous and I'm glad the EULA forbids it. Every mod is worth a different amount to different people. Donate what you want, when you're able, and don't feel guilty if you can't.

 

[the_j485]

That's the thing though: how would you know that you liked Blood Magic or Thaumcraft if you'd had to consider paying for it to even try it?

What's next, demo versions of mods?

I think the entire concept is ridiculous and I'm glad the EULA forbids it. Every mod is worth a different amount to different people. Donate what you want, when you're able, and don't feel guilty if you can't.

Oh of course, if someone monetized mods I'd be quite pissed, I'm just saying it'd be the best way.

 

[TomeWyrm]

"No" is still an option, and that is the best option for MC mods. No explicit/required monetization, no paywalls. Yes donations, ads, crowdfunding, and the like. It really is that simple. The model that's currently emerging for MC is the model that works best for users AND modders.

Of the "yes" options, there are a few that are pretty good and the Humble Bundle approach with mod PACKS is a great one. Paying single-digit fractions of a dollar per mod is a bit much when you play with well over 200 mods. But the logistics involved would kill modding as would the heated arguments over stuff like "my mod can't be used in any monetized pack/with any monetized mod". Or only with monetized mods. Or only if the author gets at least X money... or whatever.

Any explicit monetization of MC Mods is a drama shitstorm waiting to explode. Sad but true

 

[goreae]

"No" is still an option, and that is the best option for MC mods. No explicit/required monetization, no paywalls. Yes donations, ads, crowdfunding, and the like. It really is that simple. The model that's currently emerging for MC is the model that works best for users AND modders.

Of the "yes" options, there are a few that are pretty good and the Humble Bundle approach with mod PACKS is a great one. Paying single-digit fractions of a dollar per mod is a bit much when you play with well over 200 mods. But the logistics involved would kill modding as would the heated arguments over stuff like "my mod can't be used in any monetized pack/with any monetized mod". Or only with monetized mods. Or only if the author gets at least X money... or whatever.

Any explicit monetization of MC Mods is a drama shitstorm waiting to explode. Sad but true

With the humble bundle type thing, I think it would be cool charging for certain modpacks, and giving half of the profits to the individual modders and half to a charity. That sounds really neat. Especially if it was just like $5 or something like that.

 

[Bagman817]

Even if we're assuming that some future version of the Mojang EULA would allow monetization, any mod that tried it would be in Pirate Bay faster than you could say