It's not. But as a default ProjectE's configs allows EMC to be added to anything, asking them to go out of there way to prevent EMC to be added reka's items would be silly. (Assuming that's what this argument is about.)
As is complaining about people who do. If a player wants to make things harder or easier on themselves it's there right to do so.
And yah if players muck things up they are going to do everything but except responsibility for the damage they cause.
But this is always going to happen no matter what. Especially with mods that are technically difficult.
I just don't see a point to anyone complaining about others complaints. It's not like we enjoy hearing about complaints any more than anyone else.
Project E has added a search function to the Transmutation tablet. And added a Mk 2 something or another. A chest thingy.
First, yes that's basically what started this. Reika's attempts to have Project E let him blacklist his stuff, and the Porject E author(s) backlash against that.
Second: I'm quoting this one because it sums up my response very VERY well. Player Choice Is God. Removing options should always be a last resort. Obviously my personal opinion, but it seems to be shared by a pretty large portion of the community so it's not like I'm a tinfoil-hat wearing reptilian alien conspiracy nut for expressing this one
You are assuming that once a player gets the ability to make a given material, that making much more is simply a question of leaving the production on longer/throwing in more raw resources. For HSLA, this is true, but it is not for most other materials, especially tungsten and bedrock. A player can brute-force their way to just get an ingot or two comparatively early, before they have the hardware to run that for any length of time. Case in point: Players could accumulate resources (or with coils, power) over several days (or in one case, three weeks) to run something like an extractor or bedrock breaker too early. However, that buffer will be depleted rapidly, and at most an item or two will have been produced. Running it much longer is unfeasible.
Demosthenex can tell you all about exploits like this.
Doesn't the bedrock breaker run infinitely like the boring machine? No wait, that's to get bedrock dust not the ingots. That takes the... pulse jet the first time, yeah? I'll fully admit I haven't made your materials (Other than HSLA... which doesn't really count
) in a legit world yet, so I could be missing details, but I have yet to see any particularly exploit-laden jumps or loops. That they exist is a bit of a given with a mod as large as yours, but unless someone is clever or obstinately lazy I'm pretty sure they're going to manage a "slow but repeatable" production line for their first ingots. All Project E does to "skip" is let them speed that process up to skip over the tedious transition period as they obtain enough of New Material to upgrade their power system. But if I'm way off base here I'm way off base.
This also completely ignores what I said about the Tome.
Well this ignores what *I* said about the Tome. The new default hasn't been out long enough to tell if "everyone has it enabled" is something that's going to stick or not. Also the tome is harder to obtain than you seem to think. You're acting like I can get the tome after next to no playtime invested. Not the case.
It is much easier to convince a player to lend a random ingot for a few seconds, especially in the knowledge they will be receiving it back, possibly with interest. Getting them to simply give hardware is much less likely, and much more likely to trigger "Why should I trust lending you a bedrock axe for a few minutes? I just met you and I know how much damage that thing can do" than "what's the harm in giving a couple ingots so he can look up NEI then taking them right back".
Multiplayer... I swear I just said that arguing MP was futile... Here's why. Watch me counter with reasonable people. Something you can do RIGHT BACK TO ME. This is an infinite loop of "users are unpredictable". Multiplayer DESTROYS balance assumptions, which makes any debate using MP as a platform inherently either unprovable or unfalsifiable (depending).
Only if that player has taken leave of their reason. Anyone that knows EMC worth a darn knows that raw materials are more valuable to give to someone with a TT than finished goods. Project E doesn't allow uncrafting, so letting someone borrow a bedrock axe would let them duplicate a bedrock axe. Giving them a bedrock ingot would let them craft bedrock armor, a pickaxe, etc. Exploiting gaps in knowledge can be done at any point in a social hack. Assume that a player doesn't know the use of MystCraft crystals, and has a barrel full of "junk" because they're a pack-rat. I come over and go "Hey, those look pretty can I take a few stacks to build with?". Voila I can now make portals and troll the whole server. "I can exploit ignorance" is not a defense, it's a statement of obvious fact.
Producing my items counts as within my mods. I put a great deal of effort into making my production chains as realistic as possible.
No, it AFFECTS your mods, but is not in any way "within" your mods, it is the capability of another mod.
Mystcraft does not affect pumps as a collection method for lava in any way. They are precisely as useful as they were without mystcraft flat single biome deep ocean lava worlds. Mystcraft just makes finding lava in large quantities easier. Magical Crops does not affect any mod that uses a mob drop directly. It only makes resource acquisition more farmable. In no way does Ex Nihilo (plus adodns) affect your mods. It affects the assumptions about resource acquisition upon which you built your mods.
There is a distinct difference there, and that is important. Everyone always says that RoC isn't about getting a lot of raw resources, and that it's a knowledge/understanding/engineering based tiering system. So which is it? Because Project E does not change anything inside of RoC. At all. All it provides is the capability of obtaining your materials in an alternate way after one obtains them legitimately. Something which dozens of other mods could easily do in much less of a "you have to have done this once" kind of manner. I can make AgriCraft crops to produce your materials that require a block of the material to grow, or not. The first is effectively the same thing as PE from a mechanical standpoint. I can make tungsten bees whose flower is a block of sintered tungsten, or a block of dirt. You haven't been trying to get bdew or InfinityRaider to blacklist all Reika: materials... so what makes Project E so special? Because it is far from unique in mechanical capability for resource generation.
To me that means you are telling me the solution to this is to deliberately set up RC so that it is exploitable with Project E.
How did you get that. I'm saying that RoC is at absolute best mildly exploitable by Project E (I still don't think "reducing tedium after proving I can do something once" to be exploitation). Gregtech is ACTUALLY exploitable with PE and I'm tried to demonstrate the contrast between two fairly similar mods to hopefully illustrate my point more clearly
I obviously failed.
You made the rule to protect against something that truly does break your mod. I understand and respect that. That doesn't mean I like the rule
. Most people that attack the minetweak rule are the sort that wouldn't have been allowed on the whitelist when you had it. My big problem is that the whitelist doesn't exist anymore. But my dislike does not affect my support of the rule to other people. I don't like a lot of things that have valid reasons for existing, and are more beneficial in place than not, which I support by virtue of having an imperfect but available product or service is more valuable than having an unavailable product or service.
Besides, notice that I was critical of you even then? I support you, and think you could do better. Hence the constant (hopefully constructive) criticism, ideas, and attempted explanations.
No. They have gone out of their way to take my ability to blacklist items away, and have threatened going further out to deliberately add EMC to my items.
Yes, because one of the goals of EMC for a very long time has been universal support. Notice what Pahimar did? He removed the useful features of his mod to force himself to make DynEMC work sooner than later, and
@sinkillerj doesn't think your reasons for wanting a blacklist make sense. EMC, as a system by its inherent nature warps some fundamental assumptions about resource acquisition. This can affect balance in all sorts of ways that are usually pretty obvious. Which is the point of including it in most mod packs. I personally like using condensers and an EMC-dense source to power production lines that would take big, bulky, laggy machines to automate without PE. Say ghast tear collection (though there are a few other nice options now), or gunpowder. The goal of PE & EE3 is to have EMC for everything eventually, and letting RoC (or ANY mod) be exempt for non-catastrophic reasons rather runs counter to that goal, don't you think?
As for the deliberately adding EMC to your items thing? You're abrasive Reika, and pissed sinkillerj off... or was that far enough back that it was MozeIntel still? I've seen most of the mod authors do similar things when people complain at them a lot. Railcraft boiler nerfs, some mod rewrites (Soul Shards and its 15 offspring), GregTech, there are probably more examples of "you want to keep complaining about X? Fine I'll make it WORSE as a lesson"; I just can't think of them.
