Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread
- Thread starter VapourDrive
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Here's the sum total of my discussion: servers that big are ridiculous, doubly so if they're running HQM, drama is drama, people are silly, accusations of that sort are stupid as long as servers don't donation-gate content.
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I've never played AS, but how do you have a large server, let alone something near 1024 users, on such a specialized map? It seems silly.
I don't understand modded servers in general with over 30 people.
This is very nearly flame bait, but I take a very similar stance. A lot of server owners donation-gate large amounts of content, with the worst offenders locking down entire mods or making people pay to use parts of vanilla. Some - few, but some - rake in massive quantities of money, on the order of thousands of dollars a month. I can assure you that it is infuriating to see people get away with doing that with your work yet risk legal consequences if you so much as try to sell merchandise. The inevitable self-righteous attitude of these people only compounds the problem.
If this seems like overreaction to you, try placing it in a real-world context:
You put in thousands of hours of work designing something. However, you are forbidden from explicitly selling it or anything related to it. Yet due to legal quirks, you are forced to watch as someone else does sell it and are powerless to stop it unless you put in protections which some will use to vilify you for years to come.
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What whole big thing about 'you're making money off our work etc' is there in relation to server donations? This is the first I've heard of it.
There has been some servers that have gated off mods saying things like "To use this mod, you must donate X amount of money to us"
I understand absolutely, as a writer, where you are coming from... but as a guy who went to business school, I'm afraid it's just a part of doing business. No creative endeavour will ever be free of at least some people taking advantage.
I think that one of the most important lessons I've learned in my life is how to let it go, because it's so very easy to burn oneself out getting infuriated over things beyond our power to change, human nature being the first and foremost.
I do feel your pain though.
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I understand that people will try, yes, but in the "real world", you have the law on your side, where if someone is doing that, you have all sorts of options, including many through the legal system. Additionally, there is not the blanket ban on you selling your content, so it is not a "the creator is the only one not getting anything out of it" situation.
Also, in most cases, if you try to protect your copyrights or take actions against theives in the real world, it is not held against you. Do the same in MC modding...and you have probably already seen the results.
/devilsadvocate on
On the other side of the coin, I think some mods should be gated. ComputerCraft, for example. On an open server that takes donations it is just asking for problems to give access to CC to unknown, untrusted, untried people. Asking for a donation for something as powerful and demanding to a server as CC is not too far fetched, imo. Basically, If the mod in the pack you are wanting to use would make your "footprint" on the server larger, what is wrong with asking for a donation? This is not to say that some SA's are unethical. I have seen some really shady donation tiers. I remember a server where you had to pay $25 in order to use a bucket of shit from MFR.
Modders put in a lot of work coding, no argument there, but the SA pays for hardware, bandwidth, and time to make his server runs properly, so I wouldn't necessarily say that ethical donation servers are "making money" off of modders. If server owners were not allowed to use popular mods/items as incentive to donate, do you think people (kids mostly) would donate enough out of the kindness of their heart to keep the server running? or would they just ride it til the wheels fall off? I understand the concept of setting your product apart to make people want to buy it, but I've played on very well run, nice looking servers with very lax donation restrictions, and they don't last very long.
but if people would learn to recognize a scam server when they see one, this wouldn't even be an issue.
On the other side of the coin, I think some mods should be gated. ComputerCraft, for example. On an open server that takes donations it is just asking for problems to give access to CC to unknown, untrusted, untried people. Asking for a donation for something as powerful and demanding to a server as CC is not too far fetched, imo. Basically, If the mod in the pack you are wanting to use would make your "footprint" on the server larger, what is wrong with asking for a donation? This is not to say that some SA's are unethical. I have seen some really shady donation tiers. I remember a server where you had to pay $25 in order to use a bucket of shit from MFR.
Modders put in a lot of work coding, no argument there, but the SA pays for hardware, bandwidth, and time to make his server runs properly, so I wouldn't necessarily say that ethical donation servers are "making money" off of modders. If server owners were not allowed to use popular mods/items as incentive to donate, do you think people (kids mostly) would donate enough out of the kindness of their heart to keep the server running? or would they just ride it til the wheels fall off? I understand the concept of setting your product apart to make people want to buy it, but I've played on very well run, nice looking servers with very lax donation restrictions, and they don't last very long.
but if people would learn to recognize a scam server when they see one, this wouldn't even be an issue.
To expand on this a little bit
All of this could be easily avoided by users simply moving to other, better servers...
As midi_sec said servers DO need to be able to pay for themselves and often times people don't donate unless it grants them benefits. I know I was putting off donating to Aidan c Brady until he made his Jenkins donator only.
Not always. A lot of the time, these gates are implemented midlife to a server, forcing players to either "suck it up" or abandon whatever time and work they put into a server, not to mention any friends there. Combine that with how most donation-gates are kept secret to all except those already on the server, and you have a recipe for suffering.
I wonder what kind of server you'd need in order to just give CC access to randoms...
What servers do you play on?
Most that I've played on had donation gates posted on the main site for the server. Donations are usually set when that particular modpack's server goes "live." If not, shortly after. any deviation is indication that you're playing on a scam server that I referenced above.
I only play singleplayer, partly for the reason that nearly every server I have played on - and was not the admin of - ultimately banned me or the methods I was using (including things like redstone) for "being OP".I wonder what kind of server you'd need in order to just give CC access to randoms...
What servers do you play on?
I have never played modded servers, and do not plan to, especially considering every server admin that sees my SSP world says "if you built that on the server, I would delete it all for being laggy".
All this talk of servers and such is fascinating, especially because people have kept it respectful and for the most bit provide credible information without to much finger pointing *nudge nudge wink wink* for the majority of this discussion.
But seriously, for many things there are two sides. I really like how much people have responded to the patreon movement for modders so that they don't feel like they are ripped off by everyone. I also know that some server owners have their servers as their main source of income and therefor it really is just business and we all know how unfair business can be for the consumers.
But seriously, for many things there are two sides. I really like how much people have responded to the patreon movement for modders so that they don't feel like they are ripped off by everyone. I also know that some server owners have their servers as their main source of income and therefor it really is just business and we all know how unfair business can be for the consumers.