Recent Events Discussion (RED) Thread

[Reika]

I mean, I see your perspective, but i also understand why mojang would have clauses such as these in their ToS. If they didn't, people being as clever as they are would find ways to make money off of mojang's IP.

Heck, i just looked up the wording of that section of their EULA, and I'm surprised they even allow you guys get donations.

As for copyrighting code, in their eyes there is no need to because of this passage

This doesn't give you any legal recourse like a copyright would, but at least you can get offending content removed.

and to let modders copyright could cause problems with this clause

So to me it's understandable why copyrighting, closed source and such are frowned upon by mojang. If people could do things like that, they may not be able to assimilate content that originally was a mod. Mojang would have to negotiate deals with individual modders in order to use their IP, which would be silly from a business standpoint; it is their game.

The last sentence is what I assume gives most people pause, but I don't think it should. This, combined with the above quotation basically translates to "You can copy, modify, or adapt a mod released by somebody else but may not release it"

One, it is not Mojang I am talking about; it is the MC community. There is a legion of 20+ developers - and thousands of adoring fans - who will crucify you for not following their ideology.
Two, code and content are not the same thing. Code can be copyrighted irrespective of the rules on content, regardless of what Mojang or anyone else (except the government) says. This is also one of the main reasons when vanilla MC absorbs a mod, it is totally rewritten.

 

[YX33A]

I mean, I see your perspective, but i also understand why mojang would have clauses such as these in their ToS. If they didn't, people being as clever as they are would find ways to make money off of mojang's IP.

Heck, i just looked up the wording of that section of their EULA, and I'm surprised they even allow you guys get donations.

As for copyrighting code, in their eyes there is no need to because of this passage

This doesn't give you any legal recourse like a copyright would, but at least you can get offending content removed.

and to let modders copyright could cause problems with this clause

So to me it's understandable why copyrighting, closed source and such are frowned upon by mojang. If people could do things like that, they may not be able to assimilate content that originally was a mod. Mojang would have to negotiate deals with individual modders in order to use their IP, which would be silly from a business standpoint; it is their game.

The last sentence is what I assume gives most people pause, but I don't think it should. This, combined with the above quotation basically translates to "You can copy, modify, or adapt a mod released by somebody else but may not release it"

All true. I still find it weird that they don't allow for you to copyright your mod due to the EULA, but when they made the whole deal about "add a copyright to your mods, even if it's just a creative commons variant", I find it even odder they didn't update the EULA to represent this change.

 

[Dorque]

Of course, in the end, all of that legalese barely does Mojang a lick of good, as the modding community basically controls their game now.

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[midi_sec]

One, it is not Mojang I am talking about; it is the MC community. There is a legion of 20+ developers - and thousands of adoring fans - who will crucify you for not following their ideology.
Two, code and content are not the same thing. Code can be copyrighted irrespective of the rules on content, regardless of what Mojang or anyone else (except the government) says. This is also one of the main reasons when vanilla MC absorbs a mod, it is totally rewritten.

Know what I think about the 20+ developers, fans, etc? they can go to hell. This is the only modding community that I see this kind of behavior in. Nexus doesn't tolerate any of the crap the people you're referencing are pulling. Point taken about code vs. content, but still...

All true. I still find it weird that they don't allow for you to copyright your mod due to the EULA, but when they made the whole deal about "add a copyright to your mods, even if it's just a creative commons variant", I find it even odder they didn't update the EULA to represent this change.

Yeah, their EULA is fubar and they talk out of both sides of their mouths. they can't copyright their own mods, and at the same time they drop things like this in there...

If you post content on our Game, and we get challenged, threatened or sued by someone because the content infringes that persons rights, we may hold you responsible and that means you may have to pay us back for any damage we suffer as a result

 

[Dorque]

All true. I still find it weird that they don't allow for you to copyright your mod due to the EULA, but when they made the whole deal about "add a copyright to your mods, even if it's just a creative commons variant", I find it even odder they didn't update the EULA to represent this change.

That first is because, particularly under US law, holding a copyright doesn't just confer rights; it also bestows certain responsibilities. Particularly the one that says you must act to defend your copyright.

Mojang disallows copyrighting mod content because it protects them from lawsuits.

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[YX33A]

Of course, in the end, all of that legalese barely does Mojang a lick of good, as the modding community basically controls their game now.

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Well... Not really. We control the reason to PLAY the game, not the game itself. It's also why my favorite company with a strong company backed modding community(Bethesda) has such a strong ideolgy behind their modding. The EULA for modding is not the EULA for the game itself, and the EULA for modding forces every mod to be open source and have no copyright attachment as one can't do that because the code is all open to anyone who wishes to look at it. The community is strong because they stand behind their modders, and they aren't placed on a pedestal either. Countless tutortals exist for all aspects of their modding community. Making meshes, textures, scripts, worldspaces, buildings, houses, objects, weapons.... All at the fingertips of anyone who wants to learn. And it's not hard to script either, and the programs used to make the mods themselves are written by the devs, with support of the community, and then improved after the fact BY the community.
And @midi_sec the only issue with the Nexus, which is a damn fine site, is corrupt admins. That's it. The bane of the site is something one can't avoid anyway. The issue is that the Nexus is all but the only source for mods, and they are very slowly backing away from the 1 strike and perma-banned issue. Too slowly, in fact, but the general way to not get banned is stay out of the chat like the black death is in there, and don't be critical of anything anywhere. Also, the basic rules of "how to avoid getting banned". Basically say nothing, download your mods and GTFO.

 

[midi_sec]

Basically say nothing, download your mods and GTFO.

as it should be, i wish minecraft had such a venue. but really, this notion that reika has about fans, other devs, etc shouldn't even be an issue. I've seen a couple things he's talking about, so it's not unfounded.

I think a nice "sit down and shut up" to the MC community would go a long way.

 

[Dorque]

Well... Not really. We control the reason to PLAY the game, not the game itself. It's also why my favorite company with a strong company backed modding community(Bethesda) has such a strong ideolgy behind their modding. The EULA for modding is not the EULA for the game itself, and the EULA for modding forces every mod to be open source and have no copyright attachment as one can't do that because the code is all open to anyone who wishes to look at it. The community is strong because they stand behind their modders, and they aren't placed on a pedestal either. Countless tutortals exist for all aspects of their modding community. Making meshes, textures, scripts, worldspaces, buildings, houses, objects, weapons.... All at the fingertips of anyone who wants to learn. And it's not hard to script either, and the programs used to make the mods themselves are written by the devs, with support of the community, and then improved after the fact BY the community.

While you are not wrong, I think you have entirely missed my point =P

So I will simply say this. Imagine, if you will, Minecraft six months from now if all the modders suddenly quit modding tomorrow and no new ones took their place.

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[YX33A]

While you are not wrong, I think you have entirely missed my point =P

So I will simply say this. Imagine, if you will, Minecraft six months from now if all the modders suddenly quit modding tomorrow and no new ones took their place.

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I know. The game would die before those 6 months are done. But we don't own the IP, we just are the reason the IP still exists.

 

[Dorque]

as it should be, i wish minecraft had such a venue. but really, this notion that reika has about fans, other devs, etc shouldn't even be an issue. I've seen a couple things he's talking about, so it's not unfounded.

I think a nice "sit down and shut up" to the MC community would go a long way.

I think that may be an overly optimistic and idealistic vision you have there. I also think that just as much good comes from having an active and vocal community as bad.

I sure don't see a bunch of volunteers getting together and creating mod packs at an incredible expense of their personal time in any other game. Just as one example.

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[Dorque]

I know. The game would die before those 6 months are done. But we don't own the IP, we just are the reason the IP still exists.

This being why I used the word "control" in that case; I actually did have "own" in there at first and switched it.

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[midi_sec]

I sure don't see a bunch of volunteers getting together and creating mod packs at an incredible expense of their personal time in any other game. Just as one example.

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Nexus.

Fallout and Elder Scrolls series have packs of mods that people have put together.

 

[YX33A]

as it should be, i wish minecraft had such a venue. but really, this notion that reika has about fans, other devs, etc shouldn't even be an issue. I've seen a couple things he's talking about, so it's not unfounded.

I think a nice "sit down and shut up" to the MC community would go a long way.

Actually, the Nexus is the real issue with the Bethseda games. The site is filled with admins who will ban you at the drop of a hat, and once banned, it's basically impossible to get unbanned. And since one can really only get mods there, and you have to have a account to download things, and if banned, you don't have a account... You see why it's the main thing holding the community back, right?

 

[midi_sec]

Actually, the Nexus is the real issue with the Bethseda games. The site is filled with admins who will ban you at the drop of a hat, and once banned, it's basically impossible to get unbanned. And since one can really only get mods there, and you have to have a account to download things, and if banned, you don't have a account... You see why it's the main thing holding the community back, right?

I meant that I wish we had a venue in that people could download their mods and not feel that they have a "voice" I guess is what I mean.

 

[YX33A]

I meant that I wish we had a venue in that people could download their mods and not feel that they have a "voice" I guess is what I mean.

Ah, then agreed. The nexus... You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

 

[Dorque]

I meant that I wish we had a venue in that people could download their mods and not feel that they have a "voice" I guess is what I mean.

What's wrong with having a voice? Sure, you get some voices you'd rather not hear. But if you silence them all then you miss out on all the ones you do.

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[midi_sec]

What's wrong with having a voice? Sure, you get some voices you'd rather not hear. But if you silence them all then you miss out on all the ones you do.

It's all noise if none of it makes a bit of difference, good or bad.

 

[Dorque]

It's all noise if none of it makes a bit of difference, good or bad.

Well, I won't keep arguing, but I have to strongly disagree.

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[midi_sec]

We've all kept this discussion regarding servers, copyright, and the state of the community pretty civil. Disagreeing is something that happens during conversations like these. I didn't think it was an argument, but I understand. bowing out myself.

 

[Flipz]

See, folks, this is how a disagreement is supposed to end.
Thanks for not making me have to step in. ​