I don't write Minecraft mods, but I have users too. Most of them have PhDs. Need I say more?It's totally ok to be an user, but users could at least LOOK at the crash report!
I don't write Minecraft mods, but I have users too. Most of them have PhDs. Need I say more?It's totally ok to be an user, but users could at least LOOK at the crash report!
Maybe I should open a GUI instead?We are designing for users, and users don't look. There's nothing we can do about that besides educating people about it and making our logs easier to read. So we design for users that don't look at logs
That would probably work better actually....whichever mod threw the error message could have it displayedMaybe I should open a GUI instead?
There you go:
It hides pretty easily though. Should probably implement it better...That would probably work better actually....whichever mod threw the error message could have it displayed
It wouldn't be that hard....I actually feel like implementing this now!
Why not? We should actually do it!We should implement it Forge side, then everyone could do it
And through innovation we get the ability to chastise those who switch to peaceful whenever they get attackedAnd through talking about stupid people we get true innovation
Peaceful is probably the dumbest thing I've seen. It's called SURVIVAL so what are you SURVIVING from exactly?And through innovation we get the ability to chastise those who switch to peaceful whenever they get attacked
FallingPeaceful is probably the dumbest thing I've seen. It's called SURVIVAL so what are you SURVIVING from exactly?
Non-technical is not synonymous with lazy and/or brainless. You do not need a degree in computing or even an understanding of code to comprehend a log that starts with "THIS IS NOT A MOD BUG. DO NOT POST IT TO THE WEBSITE" or "This is what went wrong, fix it like this, do not report this". If someone is too lazy or too stupid to read that, then I do not care about their opinions or their well-being.Not sure you developer types are familiar with them, but there are people out there who like to just use computers, not program them, and to them a crashlog is daunting and not at all clear even if they are able to read.
I think they are called *users*. Try to think like one every now and then.
Most crash logs don't start with that. They start with the rest of the fluff. Thus why a lot of users don't read them. And truly Reika you're right, no one in their right minds have the time for it...or to design for it....Non-technical is not synonymous with lazy and/or brainless. You do not need a degree in computing or even an understanding of code to comprehend a log that starts with "THIS IS NOT A MOD BUG. DO NOT POST IT TO THE WEBSITE" or "This is what went wrong, fix it like this, do not report this". If someone is too lazy or too stupid to read that, then I do not care about their opinions or their well-being.
To say that "users" necessarily are incapable of even the most basic tasks is not only insulting to a large fraction - if not the majority of them - it is basically the same as saying "what's the point of all those indicators on a car dashboard? Not everyone is an engineer!".
Additionally, neither I nor the other developers have time to deal with people who are making that basic of mistakes, especially ones too lazy to try and solve it themselves, as they will often say something to the effect of "this is too hard, you fix it for me" or require ten different explanations of how an ID conflict works.
I am not talking about general logs like "NPE at class at class at class at class", and noone complains when users post that. The discussion was entirely about the fact some players even refuse to read logs like mine, and mcalpha was defending that as reasonable.Most crash logs don't start with that. They start with the rest of the fluff. Thus why a lot of users don't read them. And truly Reika you're right, no one in their right minds have the time for it...or to design for it....
I meant the first part of the file goes something like thisI am not talking about general logs like "NPE at class at class at class at class", and noone complains when users post that. The discussion was entirely about the fact some players even refuse to read logs like mine, and mcalpha was defending that as reasonable.
//Did I do that?
Minecraft crashed
I go for a blend of #1 and #2, but the problem with #1 is that it cannot solve the problem alone, and the problem with #2 is that many many people resist being educated ("I wouldn't have to understand a crash log if you just did your job and programmed right!/I don't have time to do this, this is your job/Not everyone has a degree, you know") or are incapable of understanding ("you said it crashed because both IDs were 45, but I made them both 46 and it crashed the same way!/"I made one of the IDs 348954894589, why does it still crash?").I meant the first part of the file goes something like this
Some users see that, freak out, run away to the issues and post the log. They have built up an understanding based on previous crashes of their game or others games that after that there is going to be something they can't decipher. This may be stupid, but unfortunately it is the truth. We have 3 optionsCode://Did I do that? Minecraft crashed
As mod mc devs we generally choose option #3. I feel as if this is inherently wrong and we should focus more on doing #1 by making our logs easier to read (difficulty of log ratings at the beginning maybe?) and #2 through forums like that
- Design for this inevitability that people are scared of what's in the crash log
- Educate people that it isn't all hard to understand
- Ignore the problem