Really stupid things that people have said about Modded MC(Off topicness makes moderators tired)

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Is this a good idea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 66 18.2%
  • No

    Votes: 18 5.0%
  • if people don't get out of control

    Votes: 68 18.8%
  • POTATOES

    Votes: 210 58.0%

  • Total voters
    362
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Padfoote

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Why does it fall apart? What I'm doing isn't complex, just large

It falls apart in that the program cannot do any special cases on anything. All of that must be done by someone in an IDE using Java or another language that they've managed to get to work in MC (happy @Strikingwolf? I covered that base :p).
1. So what you mean by "self-taught" is "taught by everyone else"
2. And why not? Because HURR DURR MCREATOR BAD, as I stated in my last post.
3. I have seen very, VERY many self-coded mods that add fewer things than mine will.
4. It helps you MAKE A FREAKING MOD WITHOUT CODING AT ALL. No matter what you add, that's a huge thing. And like I said, mine isn't very complex, just large.
5. Not very complex, just large.

1) No, what he means is you literally teach yourself what you need to know rather than sit in a class. I've learned through documentation and playing around with functions to see what I can do.

2) My above reasoning.

3) And? Small mods != lacking is creativity or special cases that a program cannot write.

4) At this point in the world knowing a programming language is pretty much vital if you're in a STEM major. So knowing Java for making a MC mod goes far beyond MC.

Edit: And Striking the ninja strikes again.
 

SadGhoster87

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Jul 29, 2019
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I'm saying that what you're doing won't be very interesting because it isn't complex

  1. That is not what being taught through use of online resources is. If I read a book on programming I am teaching myself through use of that book
  2. Because complex things appeal to people who play mods
  3. Do they ever become popular? Excluding the utility ones? And by less things do you mean less mechanics or less tangible things. Because more mechanics is much more important than more things
  4. While that is huge, it doesn't mean it is a good thing to make mods
  5. So not interesting?
1. In that case, I originally self-taught myself as well
2. It's a large progression system. Not complex innately, but about as complex as Metallurgy tiering minus machines.
3. Many of them become at least a little bit popular. And I mean less things as in both.
4. And why not? It works fine for me. All you're saying is "MCreator can't make complex mods, people like complex mods, so MCreator isn't good". It's a work in progress, and it will be much better when finished. It doesn't matter to me how large, complex, or famous mods are as long as they add good things.
5. Well, that kind of hurt. "It's not very complex, so it's not interesting". Without even knowing the scope of the mod itself or the ideas I've come up with.
 

Strikingwolf

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1. In that case, I originally self-taught myself as well
2. It's a large progression system. Not complex innately, but about as complex as Metallurgy tiering minus machines.
3. Many of them become at least a little bit popular. And I mean less things as in both.
4. And why not? It works fine for me. All you're saying is "MCreator can't make complex mods, people like complex mods, so MCreator isn't good". It's a work in progress, and it will be much better when finished. It doesn't matter to me how large, complex, or famous mods are as long as they add good things.
5. Well, that kind of hurt. "It's not very complex, so it's not interesting". Without even knowing the scope of the mod itself or the ideas I've come up with.
  1. I never said that you didn't o_O, I just said that I did and it gets easier as you go
  2. Metallurgy has a good amount of mechanics that aren't in MC...
  3. Are most of them utility mods?
  4. It isn't a good thing to use to make mods because you learn nothing from it and you aren't able to continuously add new things to it that are better than the original beyond more items (which is a design smell, because feature creep)
  5. Mods are made to do things that the base game cannot do. MCreator doesn't allow you to do things that MC doesn't do. Therefore the mod will not achieve the purpose of a mod, and thus it will not be very interesting as a mod. Also, please list some of the ideas, and I'll see if they will be both interesting and implementable with MCreator.
Also, do note that the first time I wanted to make a mod I tried MCreator. You know what I always hated? That I couldn't make anything interesting. Once I picked up Forge + Java I loathed MCreator for the time it took learning it that I could have spent on Forge or Java
 
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WitherBlaster

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XKCD reference combined with inside joke from Skype a week or so ago.
Referencing a conversation we had on Skype. The singularity is the point at which we create an AI that is smarter than humans. Which if you have an AI that can code anything...well you get the gist. The box was a reference to an xkcd comic
Ok, that makes sense.
 
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SadGhoster87

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Jul 29, 2019
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  1. I never said that you didn't o_O, I just said that I did and it gets easier as you go
  2. Metallurgy has a good amount of mechanics that aren't in MC...
  3. Are most of them utility mods?
  4. It isn't a good thing to use to make mods because you learn nothing from it and you aren't able to continuously add new things to it that are better than the original beyond more items (which is a design smell, because feature creep)
  5. Mods are made to do things that the base game cannot do. MCreator doesn't allow you to do things that MC doesn't do. Therefore the mod will not achieve the purpose of a mod, and thus it will not be very interesting as a mod. Also, please list some of the ideas, and I'll see if they will be both interesting and implementable with MCreator.
Also, do note that the first time I wanted to make a mod I tried MCreator. You know what I always hated? That I couldn't make anything interesting. Once I picked up Forge + Java I loathed MCreator for the time it took learning it that I could have spent on Forge or Java
1. I never meant to imply that you said that I didn't. #I'mSoMeta
2. I did not realize that, other than the machines.
3. What does "utility mod" mean in your case?
4. And what if I don't want to add anything other than items? Also, design smell and feature creep? WTF?
5. Mods are made to modify the game. You're literally saying "These types of mods don't count as mods".
 

Padfoote

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Also, design smell and feature creep? WTF?

Feature creep is adding more and more things that just get stronger than the last variant. It's horrible design and should be avoided unless there is a good way to balance it.

There typically isn't.

Edit: This is power creep, as pointed out by Striking below. Got them confused.
 
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Strikingwolf

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3. What does "utility mod" mean in your case?
4. And what if I don't want to add anything other than items? Also, design smell and feature creep? WTF?
5. Mods are made to modify the game. You're literally saying "These types of mods don't count as mods".
  1. Minimaps and the like
  2. Then I doubt it will be interesting, because it has no mechanics. Design smell is when something smells fishy in design. Feature creep is this
  3. That's what mods are made for, but everything that the community sees mods as is adding something to the game which would be impossible.
 
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Strikingwolf

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Feature creep is adding more and more things that just get stronger than the last variant. It's horrible design and should be avoided unless there is a good way to balance it.

There typically isn't.
That's power creep, but they are similar concepts. And power creep also applies to large progressive item systems where each item doesn't do something unique/special so good definition either way :p
 

Padfoote

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That's power creep, but they are similar concepts. And power creep also applies to large progressive item systems where each item doesn't do something unique/special so good definition either way :p

Yeah, my bad. I always get the two confused.
 

trajing

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Jul 29, 2019
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MCreator is, by nature, not as powerful as coding.
Consider, if you will, a HTML designer. This has a intuitive interface and allows you to make a nice, good-looking website and stylesheet to go with that. Now, this HTML designer is a work-in-progress. It adds a simplistic way to write some more Javascript, in a GUI format.
That's coding.
There is such a thing as a GUI-based language, and they typically look a bit like flowcharts. In any case, to keep it simple, it would be missing quite a few features. No classes, for example, and ways to interact with pure-JS libraries that aren't included in the core would have to be added by plugins.
Should there not be a plugin that does what you want, you have to learn JS, Coffeescript, Dart, Typescript, Opal, or something. You have to switch back to a text-based language because GUI, by nature, is not as powerful as text-based because when you want a flowchart that preforms actions, you sacrifice power for simplicity.
 

SadGhoster87

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Jul 29, 2019
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  1. Minimaps and the like
  2. Then I doubt it will be interesting, because it has no mechanics. Design smell is when something smells fishy in design. Feature creep is this
  3. That's what mods are made for, but everything that the community sees mods as is adding something to the game which would be impossible.
1. Some are, many are just simple addons like super-diamond or Advanced Workbench.
2. I don't understand how mine feels fishy, I feel like it will be just fine, as it adds around 10 new toolmaterials and a new dimension. Feature creep probably won't happen in my case
3. What? No. I see mods as modifying the game.
 

Strikingwolf

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1. Some are, many are just simple addons like super-diamond or Advanced Workbench.
2. I don't understand how mine feels fishy, I feel like it will be just fine, as it adds around 10 new toolmaterials and a new dimension. Feature creep probably won't happen in my case
3. What? No. I see mods as modifying the game.
  1. super-diamond isn't really that popular, and not really that good IMO. Also, Advanced workbench would require coding as it adds new mechanics
  2. 10 materials compared to 4 in the base game will probably result in feature/power creep.
  3. Look at the top mods in the community. Most of them add new functionality/mechanics to the game
 

SadGhoster87

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  1. super-diamond isn't really that popular, and not really that good IMO. Also, Advanced workbench would require coding as it adds new mechanics
  2. 10 materials compared to 4 in the base game will probably result in feature/power creep.
  3. Look at the top mods in the community. Most of them add new functionality/mechanics to the game
1. You have no idea how many people use it then.
2. Not if I don't add more...
3. So my mod won't be the most popular. That's not to say it's all innately autobad.
 

Strikingwolf

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1. You have no idea how many people use it then.
2. Not if I don't add more...
3. So my mod won't be the most popular. That's not to say it's all innately autobad.
  1. I made an estimate based on the amount of replies to the thread, I have no way of getting solid numbers
  2. If you don't add more it won't happen. But because tools are the main part of your mod the only way of updating would be to...add more
  3. What is popular is generally a good measure of what is good in the mods community. However, there are many other reasons that this mod would be bad. Like #2 feature/power creep
 

RavynousHunter

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SadGhoster, I believe the main crux of Striking's argument is that MCreator teaches you to make things using MCreator. While that's all well and good, learning to make the mods using an IDE will teach you skills that can apply to other fields, like STEM majors in college, also known as "the only degrees worth getting." You are technically right in that a mod is anything that modifies the game in a way that isn't found in the base game, so even adding compressed cobble to vanilla Minecraft (and nothing more) would be considered, technically, a mod. You're talking about adding new, tiered ores and whatnot beyond diamond, and that's all well and good, but the big question you gotta ask yourself is: how is my mod going to be different from the dozens of other mods that add diamond+ tools? MCreator is limited in its functionality. If memory serves, you couldn't, for example, make a sword that inflicts poison when it hits something like the vyroxeres sword in Metallurgy. To do that, you need to crack open an IDE and actually work with the code itself. That is why Striking doesn't like it: you can't add much complexity.

That said, MCreator is a fair first step. For games like Minecraft, ones that don't have dedicated content creation tools, such things inevitably have...rather lacklustre first steps; it can be helped no more than one can help that the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. Hopefully, MCreator becomes a better, more refined tool for content creation; something that adds things even a neophyte can use, but that still has functionality that a seasoned veteran can find useful. Another criticism I've heard of MCreator is that the code it produces isn't particularly good quality, and bad code creates a lot more problems than good code. Still, its better than it not being available at all.
 

Strikingwolf

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SadGhoster, I believe the main crux of Striking's argument is that MCreator teaches you to make things using MCreator. While that's all well and good, learning to make the mods using an IDE will teach you skills that can apply to other fields, like STEM majors in college, also known as "the only degrees worth getting." You are technically right in that a mod is anything that modifies the game in a way that isn't found in the base game, so even adding compressed cobble to vanilla Minecraft (and nothing more) would be considered, technically, a mod. You're talking about adding new, tiered ores and whatnot beyond diamond, and that's all well and good, but the big question you gotta ask yourself is: how is my mod going to be different from the dozens of other mods that add diamond+ tools? MCreator is limited in its functionality. If memory serves, you couldn't, for example, make a sword that inflicts poison when it hits something like the vyroxeres sword in Metallurgy. To do that, you need to crack open an IDE and actually work with the code itself. That is why Striking doesn't like it: you can't add much complexity.
Very good explanation
That said, MCreator is a fair first step. For games like Minecraft, ones that don't have dedicated content creation tools, such things inevitably have...rather lacklustre first steps; it can be helped no more than one can help that the sun rises in the East and sets in the West. Hopefully, MCreator becomes a better, more refined tool for content creation; something that adds things even a neophyte can use, but that still has functionality that a seasoned veteran can find useful. Another criticism I've heard of MCreator is that the code it produces isn't particularly good quality, and bad code creates a lot more problems than good code. Still, its better than it not being available at all.
It is a fair first step, but a better one is making a smaller mod than what you would make in MCreator in Java. Because all the above ;)
 
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