ReactorCraft - clever reactor setups?

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ChemE

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Jul 29, 2019
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Okay, I've read through Reika's change logs and can't find anything on this so I'll ask here. I have an LP turbine setup and I'm running ammonia through it in an absolutely closed loop. I made two drums of ammonia and I run a drum of hot CO2 gas at a time since my production of that doesn't keep pace (nor does it need to). So I run in cycles. After running perhaps 10 cycles each using a drum of hot CO2 gas, I have lost almost all my 512 buckets of ammonia. There are some blocks of steam stuck to each side of the turbine shaft itself but that should only be 10 blocks at most. Is this an intended behavior that there is some ammonia loss, have I found a bug, or am I being dense and I am losing ammonia somewhere somehow? Gathering ammonium chloride ore from the nether is a hassle and I don't like the idea of finding a few stacks of it every few days!
 
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Reika

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Okay, I've read through Reika's change logs and can't find anything on this so I'll ask here. I have an LP turbine setup and I'm running ammonia through it in an absolutely closed loop. I made two drums of ammonia and I run a drum of hot CO2 gas at a time since my production of that doesn't keep pace (nor does it need to). So I run in cycles. After running perhaps 10 cycles each using a drum of hot CO2 gas, I have lost almost all my 512 buckets of ammonia. There are some blocks of steam stuck to each side of the turbine shaft itself but that should only be 10 blocks at most. Is this an intended behavior that there is some ammonia loss, have I found a bug, or am I being dense and I am losing ammonia somewhere somehow? Gathering ammonium chloride ore from the nether is a hassle and I don't like the idea of finding a few stacks of it every few days!
Steam has to be getting lost; the conversion is 1:1.
 

ChemE

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Jul 29, 2019
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Steam has to be getting lost; the conversion is 1:1.

Okay, I'm glad that it isn't happening because of a design decision on your part. Rather than a loop I'm going to run one cycle with a barrel of ammonia to feed the boiler and a second barrel to catch the ammonia leaving the pressurizer and see if all 256 buckets show up. I need to play more of your mods I'm really loving RoC/ReC and Electricraft!
 

EyeDeck

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2013
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Okay, I've read through Reika's change logs and can't find anything on this so I'll ask here. I have an LP turbine setup and I'm running ammonia through it in an absolutely closed loop. I made two drums of ammonia and I run a drum of hot CO2 gas at a time since my production of that doesn't keep pace (nor does it need to). So I run in cycles. After running perhaps 10 cycles each using a drum of hot CO2 gas, I have lost almost all my 512 buckets of ammonia. There are some blocks of steam stuck to each side of the turbine shaft itself but that should only be 10 blocks at most. Is this an intended behavior that there is some ammonia loss, have I found a bug, or am I being dense and I am losing ammonia somewhere somehow? Gathering ammonium chloride ore from the nether is a hassle and I don't like the idea of finding a few stacks of it every few days!
Have you checked your steam lines with an angular transducer? By design they never empty out completely, so there could be quite a few buckets trapped up in them.
 

ChemE

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Jul 29, 2019
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Have you checked your steam lines with an angular transducer? By design they never empty out completely, so there could be quite a few buckets trapped up in them.

The rabbit hole deepens. I have been checking my steam lines and they do build up around 100 cubic meters of steam while the boiler is generating at full tilt. I did the simple controlled experiment I described above: 256 buckets in a drum feeding the boiler, empty drum downstream of the pressurizer to catch the ammonia after a single pass through. I wound up with 255,500 mB so I figure the rest is probably in the lp ammonia line coming from the condensers scattered about my turbine structure (I have 6 to ensure they are caught as rapidly as possible). Great right?! So I plug in my second drum of ammonia, 512 buckets is quickly converted to steam, and I make the loop connect back so it just runs. Then when the hot CO2 ran out, I disabled the feed and connection so that all the ammonia would get caught in the outlet drums again and not cycle back to the feed. (I broke one fluid pipe with 0.01 cubic meters of ammonia in it at 100 kPa so some was lost then). Imagine my dismay to only collect 230 buckets of ammonia after the steam lines emptied through the turbine/condenser/pressurizer system. 270 buckets have vanished from a system that has already been tested as closed to within a few hundred millibuckets.

This is all in a single chunk (I always build big machines this way; I fear chunk boundaries) which is not chunk loaded and I do routinely pop into the nether and my aroma core mining dimension. Is it possible that the steam being released by the grate in an unloaded chunk is voiding or that the ammonia vapor in the steam lines zeros out upon chunk unload/load? The reason I ask is my ammonia synthesizer in the same chunk resets to 35C when I pop back from the nether even though it lives at 702C since it is in the desert at bedrock over lava.
 

Braidedheadman

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Jul 29, 2019
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The pipe pump connects to steam lines? Does that mean, for example, if I want to reroute some errant sections of steam line, I can pump out the excess steam into another section of pipe and thus preserve that steam rather than losing the portions we'd normally "delete" by breaking them?
 

Pyure

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Aug 14, 2013
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The pipe pump connects to steam lines? Does that mean, for example, if I want to reroute some errant sections of steam line, I can pump out the excess steam into another section of pipe and thus preserve that steam rather than losing the portions we'd normally "delete" by breaking them?
Yep. Worth noting it doesn't necessary get all of the steam in your whole network in a reasonable timeframe, but you can probably count on getting 99% of it.
 

Braidedheadman

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Jul 29, 2019
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Nice! I hadn't connected the dots in that manner before, thinking that "pipes" don't normally connect to the steam lines.

But another question, if you please: I'm trying to boost my HSLA production to meet the demands of my survival build projects, particularly where it comes to ReC. But I'm struggling with tuning the pulse jet furnace (PJF) to operate in the 900 < T < 1000 range required to process iron into HSLA steel.

Here are the facts:

  • Supplying it with more than the required power (currently 524KW, raw speed) does not increase the temperature.
  • The change logs suggest that adding oxygen gas should (safely) boost the PJF to 900+ degrees; however, the PJF on my test bench (installed in a "Plains" biome where the ambient T=30C) refuses to climb above 873C.
  • I've tried removing the water supply and adding two 131KW fan-cooled cooling fins to the PJF but all that gets me is a rather large crater. I thought this would be overkill, but it comes nowhere close to stabilizing the temperature before it reaches T>1000C and blows.
  • Have even tried insulating the PJF's exposed sides, thinking to retain heat somehow to no effect (it was a long shot, but hey).

Am I on the right track? Surely it's not liquid nitrogen, right? Is that even possible? If water cools the PJF too much, I can't imagine nitrogen would be anything other than a step in the wrong direction.
 
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Someone Else 37

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Feb 10, 2013
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Nice! I hadn't connected the dots in that manner before, thinking that "pipes" don't normally connect to the steam lines.

But another question, if you please: I'm trying to boost my HSLA production to meet the demands of my survival build projects, particularly where it comes to ReC. But I'm struggling with tuning the pulse jet furnace (PJF) to operate in the 900 < T < 1000 range required to process iron into HSLA steel.

Here are the facts:

  • Supplying it with more than the required power (currently 524KW, raw speed) does not increase the temperature.
  • The change logs suggest that adding oxygen gas should (safely) boost the PJF to 900+ degrees; however, the PJF on my test bench (installed in a "Plains" biome where the ambient T=30C) refuses to climb above 873C.
  • I've tried removing the water supply and adding two 131KW fan-cooled cooling fins to the PJF but all that gets me is a rather large crater. I thought this would be overkill, but it comes nowhere close to stabilizing the temperature before it reaches T>1000C and blows.
  • Have even tried insulating the PJF's exposed sides, thinking to retain heat somehow to no effect (it was a long shot, but hey).

Am I on the right track? Surely it's not liquid nitrogen, right? Is that even possible? If water cools the PJF too much, I can't imagine nitrogen would be anything other than a step in the wrong direction.
Did you try using an external heat source? If placing fire or lava next to it doesn't help, you could try the heater blocks- either the one that burns fuel, or the friction-powered one.

Disclaimer: I have not messed with the pulse jet furnace, and do not know what would be required to get it to work.
 

ChemE

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Jul 29, 2019
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Speaking of the pulse jet furnace how does one even make oxygen? I have not yet figured out how to get water into the electrolyzer. I read that the electrolyzer needs to be powered by a van de graff generator but no matter which pipe/side I try, cannot get a single mB of water into the electrolyzer's tank to begin processing.
 

Braidedheadman

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Jul 29, 2019
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Speaking of the pulse jet furnace how does one even make oxygen? I have not yet figured out how to get water into the electrolyzer. I read that the electrolyzer needs to be powered by a van de graff generator but no matter which pipe/side I try, cannot get a single mB of water into the electrolyzer's tank to begin processing.
You need to first separate heavy water from normal water using the heavy water extractor. You can then pass the heavy water in to the electrolyzer and produce two units of deuterium and one unit of oxygen. It's a very slow process. Note that heavy water is not the same thing as regular water.

Did you try using an external heat source? If placing fire or lava next to it doesn't help, you could try the heater blocks- either the one that burns fuel, or the friction-powered one.

Disclaimer: I have not messed with the pulse jet furnace, and do not know what would be required to get it to work.
I don't believe that would work. We know Reika has gone to great lengths to simulate realistic engineering principles in this mod.

Let's look at the first law of thermal dynamics, "The increase in internal energy of a closed system is equal to the heat supplied to the system minus work done by it."

This tells us that temperature does not increase on a linear scale; two bodies in space of a given temperature do no combine their temperature (their energy state) to increase their temperature equivalent to the sum of their previous energy state. If anything, without another source of heat to supply energy to the system, their combined heat will see a net reduction in the energy state of the body with the higher temperature, cooling it off, like dousing red hot iron bars in a pool of water; entropy.

That is to say, if lava has, for example, a constant temperature of 600C, it will heat a blast furnace until the two are in a state of thermal equilibrium, which in RoC terms (an idealized closed system) means that they will be the same temperature after enough time has passed.

If you place a friction heater on the same furnace and give it enough power to heat the furnace to, say, 1000C, you won't get 1000C+600C=1600C because adding heat (energy) is not the union of two quantities, like, for example, adding two glasses of water would be. What we've done is supplied more heat (ie: we've increased the energy potential of the furnace) which causes the temperature to increase in proportion to the energy being supplied.

You'll get exactly and precisely 1000C because the input energy from the friction heater supersedes that of the lava. Effectively, if they two were connected and not insulated from each other (which we can infer that they are not since we use lava as an early, abundant heat source), then realistically, along with the furnace, we would also heat the lava up to or approaching 1000C as it absorbs heat energy from the furnace next to, which in turn is being heated by a source that is hotter than both of them, until all three objects reach a state of thermal equilibrium (equal to the heat energy of the friction heater, the source).

This isn't modeled in RoC, however, so don't go looking for evidence of this. I'm just saying that, realistically, this is what would happen in an idealized closed system (up to the boiling point of lave, at any rate - and we haven't even begun to consider entropy beyond mentioning it briefly).

tl;dr I doubt very much that @Reika intends me to pre-heat the pulse jet furnace with a lesser heat source than the one it's being supplied with in order two squeeze out that last 28C that I need to make this work.
 

ChemE

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Jul 29, 2019
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You need to first separate heavy water from normal water using the heavy water extractor. You can then pass the heavy water in to the electrolyzer and produce two units of deuterium and one unit of oxygen. It's a very slow process. Note that heavy water is not the same thing as regular water...

Thanks, I've edited the previously unclear wiki page for the electrolyzer to reflect this. The description in the ReC book is what was throwing me off since it specifically mentions water as an input rather than heavy water.
 

Someone Else 37

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Feb 10, 2013
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You need to first separate heavy water from normal water using the heavy water extractor. You can then pass the heavy water in to the electrolyzer and produce two units of deuterium and one unit of oxygen. It's a very slow process. Note that heavy water is not the same thing as regular water.


I don't believe that would work. We know Reika has gone to great lengths to simulate realistic engineering principles in this mod.

Let's look at the first law of thermal dynamics, "The increase in internal energy of a closed system is equal to the heat supplied to the system minus work done by it."

This tells us that temperature does not increase on a linear scale; two bodies in space of a given temperature do no combine their temperature (their energy state) to increase their temperature equivalent to the sum of their previous energy state. If anything, without another source of heat to supply energy to the system, their combined heat will see a net reduction in the energy state of the body with the higher temperature, cooling it off, like dousing red hot iron bars in a pool of water; entropy.

That is to say, if lava has, for example, a constant temperature of 600C, it will heat a blast furnace until the two are in a state of thermal equilibrium, which in RoC terms (an idealized closed system) means that they will be the same temperature after enough time has passed.

If you place a friction heater on the same furnace and give it enough power to heat the furnace to, say, 1000C, you won't get 1000C+600C=1600C because adding heat (energy) is not the union of two quantities, like, for example, adding two glasses of water would be. What we've done is supplied more heat (ie: we've increased the energy potential of the furnace) which causes the temperature to increase in proportion to the energy being supplied.

You'll get exactly and precisely 1000C because the input energy from the friction heater supersedes that of the lava. Effectively, if they two were connected and not insulated from each other (which we can infer that they are not since we use lava as an early, abundant heat source), then realistically, along with the furnace, we would also heat the lava up to or approaching 1000C as it absorbs heat energy from the furnace next to, which in turn is being heated by a source that is hotter than both of them, until all three objects reach a state of thermal equilibrium (equal to the heat energy of the friction heater, the source).

This isn't modeled in RoC, however, so don't go looking for evidence of this. I'm just saying that, realistically, this is what would happen in an idealized closed system (up to the boiling point of lave, at any rate - and we haven't even begun to consider entropy beyond mentioning it briefly).

tl;dr I doubt very much that @Reika intends me to pre-heat the pulse jet furnace with a lesser heat source than the one it's being supplied with in order two squeeze out that last 28C that I need to make this work.
I did not remember the temperature of lava off the top of my head; but if it is indeed 600C (which sounds about right to me), then I agree that it most likely won't help heat the pulse jet furnace to 900C on its own. In which case, I'd recommend the friction heater or, if that can't heat the PJF enough, the heat ray. Or just aim a gas turbine at it; that might work too (or just overheat it and blow it up; I don't remember the temperature of the exhaust of those things off the top of my head).

However, there is one point that you may have neglected, and that is that the rate at which heat transfers between two objects increases with the difference between their temperatures. So, if you've got an oxygen-and-jet-fuel-fed, water-cooled PJF surrounded by 30C air, it's entirely possible that it stabilizes at 873C because it's losing heat to the atmosphere faster than it would be able to maintain a 900C temperature. If you were to replace the air with an insulator, I'd assume that it would reduce the rate at which the heat escapes. However, you said that didn't work, so maybe RoC still thinks that the insulator is at ambient temperature.

Anyhow, if you were to increase the ambient temperature somehow, the PJF would be able to retain more of the heat that it produces, as less of it would bleed off into the environment. The canonical way to do this is probably with the friction heater, but I see no reason why a passively hot block, such as lava, should be able to accomplish the same thing (although perhaps not to a useful extent). If you place some lava next to your PJF, I would fully expect its temperature to increase at least a little bit. Would it increase by 27 degrees? I don't know, but I think it's worth a shot.
 

Reika

RotaryCraft Dev
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Sep 3, 2013
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Toronto, Canada
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I did not remember the temperature of lava off the top of my head; but if it is indeed 600C (which sounds about right to me), then I agree that it most likely won't help heat the pulse jet furnace to 900C on its own. In which case, I'd recommend the friction heater or, if that can't heat the PJF enough, the heat ray. Or just aim a gas turbine at it; that might work too (or just overheat it and blow it up; I don't remember the temperature of the exhaust of those things off the top of my head).

However, there is one point that you may have neglected, and that is that the rate at which heat transfers between two objects increases with the difference between their temperatures. So, if you've got an oxygen-and-jet-fuel-fed, water-cooled PJF surrounded by 30C air, it's entirely possible that it stabilizes at 873C because it's losing heat to the atmosphere faster than it would be able to maintain a 900C temperature. If you were to replace the air with an insulator, I'd assume that it would reduce the rate at which the heat escapes. However, you said that didn't work, so maybe RoC still thinks that the insulator is at ambient temperature.

Anyhow, if you were to increase the ambient temperature somehow, the PJF would be able to retain more of the heat that it produces, as less of it would bleed off into the environment. The canonical way to do this is probably with the friction heater, but I see no reason why a passively hot block, such as lava, should be able to accomplish the same thing (although perhaps not to a useful extent). If you place some lava next to your PJF, I would fully expect its temperature to increase at least a little bit. Would it increase by 27 degrees? I don't know, but I think it's worth a shot.
The Pulse Jet heats on its own.
 

Someone Else 37

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The Pulse Jet heats on its own.
Yes, but Braidedheadman is saying that it doesn't quite heat itself enough to melt iron into HSLA steel. I'm offering suggestions based in guesswork and theory for how to give it that last little bit.
 

Braidedheadman

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Jul 29, 2019
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The pulse jet furnace is supplied with oxygen and 524KW power (1nm*rad/s). The temperature is not climbing above 873C in a plains biome (30C ambient) and I'm stumped. :p
Here are the facts:

  • Supplying it with more than the required power (currently 524KW, raw speed) does not increase the temperature.
  • The change logs suggest that adding oxygen gas should (safely) boost the PJF to 900+ degrees; however, the PJF on my test bench (installed in a "Plains" biome where the ambient T=30C) refuses to climb above 873C.
  • I've tried removing the water supply and adding two 131KW fan-cooled cooling fins to the PJF but all that gets me is a rather large crater. I thought this would be overkill, but it comes nowhere close to stabilizing the temperature before it reaches T>1000C and blows.
  • Have even tried insulating the PJF's exposed sides, thinking to retain heat somehow to no effect (it was a long shot, but hey).
 

Braidedheadman

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Jul 29, 2019
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Here is my set up:

2v0iu6r.png


Any thoughts what I might be doing wrong?

Radiation-poisoned terrain, HP Turbine block spam, and assorted craters are from when my first and subsequent PJFs went kablooey - the first one took out my breeder reactor and the next ones spread radiation, because explosions! :p

T=873C is the final temperature with and without oxygen.

[Edit] I just noticed in the screenshot: I appear to have a tainted land biome problem... Wat? o_O
 
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