No. Occasionally wanting them to be equal is a valid requirement in a pack. The implicit balance concerns in other packs is irrelevant.
RC/ReC/ElC/CC Policy Changes
- Thread starter Reika
- Start date
Shrug. At any rate, this all rather pointless. FTB is going away, sooner or later, in favor of Curse. And with Curse you either allow open permissions...or you can't be included in any modpack. You can revoke permissions on a per modpack basis if need be, though.
Quite frankly, I won't miss this kind of thing. I know the problems that led to this sorry state of affairs, but that doesn't change that mod pack permissions are a freakin' headache that achieves nothing much more than giving pack devs headaches.
Quite frankly, I won't miss this kind of thing. I know the problems that led to this sorry state of affairs, but that doesn't change that mod pack permissions are a freakin' headache that achieves nothing much more than giving pack devs headaches.
You are missing the point. His entire rationale for changing the recipe was that "bedrock looks too cheap, I'm using compressed cobble instead". He got the exact opposite of the result he wanted because of his own ignorance. Also, do you really think a user like that is going to do anything but blame the author when it blows up in his face?
Only if you want to MODIFY the mod in question.
Do you intend to change thaumcraft, botania, cofh, tinkers construct, chickenchunks, ae2, and all the rest as well?
If you don't intend to make changes, then all you need is the written permission listed in the current terms, nothing more, nothing less.
So, if you are making no changes, you can skip....
1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, and 10.
Well, possibly not #1, but how long is "I don't want to change anything"? Going to take to get a reply?
Does anybody who's ever played RC think that bedrockium and Bedrock Ingots are anywhere near the same in time/energy/emc/value?
You know what I would sort of like?
A sort of walkthrough, with the tiers listed. How much effort is expected to get to that point. Then people would have an easier time seeing that item X from RC is not the same as item Y from something else.
Does anybody who played through mariculture think that it's tiatnium is the same difficulty to make as titanium from any other mod?
As a possible point, I posit that as the only thing most people know about Reika is his mods, then the content of the mods is the only thing most people know of his character. Any signifigent change for the worst of his mods is a defemation of character. Any major harm done to the quality of his work would reflect badly on him and harm his character. I would say the same about RedPower, Thaumcraft, Gregtech, or any other mod where more is known about the mod then the author. (sorry KingLeming, but you are known too much for being you for me to judge you as being protected this way)
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On the contrary, I think his rationale was that he wanted to use the ingots he wanted to use, and who cares? If he realized later that one was cheaper or more expensive, he'd likely go and change it again.
And what do you mean by it blowing up in his face? If you mean his changes actually functionally breaking the mod (errors), I've always supported the notion that there's no onus on a modder to support a modified mod.
Yes. I've played a pack where bedrockium ingots required top tier GT machines to make, uu matter, and billions of RF(equivalent) per ingot.
It happens. Sometimes the designer needs that crazy scenario to happen to make their vision work. It just happens, and trying to assume that there's only one balance perspective in a modding community is rank insanity.
Versus my current process with the mods I use, a PM that says "I'm making xyz pack and I'll be using your mod. Thanks for being a great dev" and done with it, on to the more interesting and relevant parts of pack development. Mind, if a mod dev then objects (which has happened, once or twice) I do listen. But still, all this? It really isn't necessary. Modern launchers even go as far as including credit and, usually, a direct link to the mod itself right there.
I respect Reika's decision here, but that doesn't stop me from finding this whole thing more than a little silly.
Ever notice that audio books are for sale and not based on someone else's work?
Modding Minecraft (a consumer intellectual property that blessedly allows us to rampage all over it) cannot be compared like this. If you don't want to get into modding, don't.
Because such a thing is incredibly destructive to a server balance, and he is going to get the same result as the guy who sold endgame content and tried to sue me when his server was obliterated with it.
Yes, but presumably said author knows this and can tell me, whereupon it will actually be given more consideration.
But the fact is, most people, a vast majority, including most pack devs, assume they are identical purely because the names are similar.
In both cases the point remains the same:
For every legitimate case you can imagine for modifications like the ones above, there are a hundred more that are based on poor or no understanding that I need to be able to filter out.
While I don't necessarily agree that "most" of the community is trying to sell mod content, you have to admit that monetization in general is a big part of the community now, for everyone from modpack makers, modders, streamers, and server owners alike. FTB itself is a for-profit company and has been for quite some time now. If you make mods in an FTB pack, other people are indirectly making money from your work. Either you put restrictive permissions on it to deny them, or you shrug your shoulders and just let people play the mods.
And criticizing monetizing other people's content is getting increasingly polarizing.
Also, someone said something to me that makes me realize something:
For those criticizing the idea of having to come to me:
You would have to come to me to get pack permissions anyways, to agree to the other four rules (not to monetize the content, claim credit for the mods, or redistribute the mods outside the pack)...so what exactly do you lose by also having to specify what changes you plan to make?
For those criticizing the idea of having to come to me:
You would have to come to me to get pack permissions anyways, to agree to the other four rules (not to monetize the content, claim credit for the mods, or redistribute the mods outside the pack)...so what exactly do you lose by also having to specify what changes you plan to make?
Can you imagine the horrors of the end user trying to understand a modpack when it does not document the changes that it makes?
* As a user, I love this! I hate -- *HATE* -- getting kicked in the bleep by a modpack that doesn't even explain what it has done different.
That isn't what is wrong with all of this Reika, the problem is you wanting to "approve" everything. If someone has a vision with their mod pack, why should they bend to your will? I honestly don't know why you worry yourself to death over someone misusing your mod, this is a game built for a young demographic, the last thing you need to worry about is someone breaking your balance. Have you ever played a kitchen sink pack in your life? Every mod breaks another but that is okay because it is fun. And that is what matters. You treat your mod usage like a business policy when you actually designed it because you enjoyed making it and I *think* you enjoy people playing something you made, but you are ruining it for yourself.
I understand that your mods are your children and mean a lot to you, but there is no purpose in making your mods public if no one can use them.
I have legitimate questions for all mod makers out there that I have seriously been pondering for the longest time.
- Why are some of you so protective over your code to the point of hostility and paranoia when it is an add-on to a base game that you had no say in creating?
- You can't monetize your mod directly, why is close source beneficial? Or how is open source bad? Fastcraft comes to mind the most, no one knows how this mod works at all. Player obviously doesn't make money from it, why can no one know how it works so the two mods don't break each other? IE COFH Tweaks.
- Past notifications, why do you not want your mods in a mod pack? I can understand a few bug reports, but that is all I understand about this.
Why can't you just give the community a second chance? Let your mods be open policy for a few public packs and see how it goes. I want to use Chromaticraft so badly, but I am not going to bother getting your permission any time I make a recipe change. And you know why? First of all it is annoying as hell. Secondly, mod packs can change rapidly through versions, especially early versions when you have to outsource your testers from the community. I want to make changes during that same day, I don't want to wait around for your approval when you could be MIA for several days. Third and probably most important is that mod pack making comes from inspiration and molding mods to a story line or theme. Mods are not balanced around each other so you can't use it as-is, an exciting mod pack has torn apart configs and recipes to make something new that the base mods thrown together simply don't offer. It is about creating a new player experience, and you are restricting that.
So unless you change that, the tl;dr of this policy is that it will most likely never reach a popular pack. And if you want that, then this policy has the exact same effect as your former anti-pack policy.
People WANT to play your mods, but they want to play them their way. Who cares if they automatically hit end game because a silly mod author ore dictionaried your bedrockiumwhatever. Isn't enjoying the mod what matters? No need to be the fun police.
I have never seen you before today, so I will assume you have never seen my past explanations about why I am so tense about people modifying the mod.
The full explanation is here - and yes, I expect you to spend 5 to 10 minutes reading it - but long story short it is because during the glory days of FTB Monster, from about November 2013 to May 2014, it went very, very badly. For six months straight, I had more people modifying and breaking my mods than people running functional versions, and the vast, overwhelming majority had the audacity to blame me for the resultant effects. People did things like removing machines they had no idea were crucial, and then whined about how the mod was broken. They unified materials or power and then whined and moaned about how RotaryCraft was overpowered. Others upset more nuanced systems - like the balancing designed to discourage machine spam, then complained when the wall of machines hurt their performance. Some had servers wiped out by the fact that the extremely powerful endgame became too easily accessible.
And a huge number posted all over the internet and went to everyone who would listen about how my mods were broken. Buggy. Garbage. Over that six months, my userbase plummeted, because the entire community, save for small alcoves of it, turned into a giant echo chamber about how my mods were the worst in years and the first piece of advice given to every server and pack dev I could find was "remove RotaryCraft". Even on these very forums, just about every thread mentioning a bug, lag, or other undesirable behavior had at least one person, often more, blaming me for the result because of the rumors that drowned out anything I could do to fight them. Many of these rumors still exist over a year later.
Most also came to me, harassing me over the problems they brought upon themselves. I got entire essays of vitriol about how the mods were barely worth their disk space, about how I was the most incompetent developer since EA, or how the world would be a better place if I were to step into traffic. On average, five people a day dropped walls of text on me, and countless more left random hate mail, sucking up not only about 30 to 120 minutes of my time trying to refute their points - a necessary task because to these people and most readers, non-addressal is implicit admission of truth - and making me incredibly exasperated. Ever wonder why there are instances of me ridiculing someone for something like not understanding how to download files or ignoring a flashing notification? Often times, they had the bad luck of getting read after a five-page diatribe over why everyone in the community should shun me. Most even went further, spewing personal attacks, threats, some involving real-world actions, and even harassing people that associate with me. One person tried to sue me over their server's demise at the hand of griefers armed with RC items.
Now, it is even worse. Not only would full open permissions bring back all of the problems above, but now that something like 30% of the community hates me and wishes for my head on a stick, they are going to love the opportunity to use my own mod against me, deliberately breaking it and giving apparent credence to all those rumors - most of which were started by other mod devs fully aware of their own dishonesty, by the way - generating endless streams of bug reports, making it look like a laggy or unbalanced mess, and a particularly nasty few may even try nastier things I cannot predict.
Now to answer your questions:
Because something like 50% of the community is like "f you, we own it as much as or more than you do", and acts like every whim they give - often in an aggressive and demeaning tone at that - must be immediately satisfied and that anything else makes you a selfish tyrant. Just look at the "me vs RF" debates as a good example of that. Spend 2 years making, perfecting, and maintaining a mod with an intricate system all built around its shaft-based power system? As these people would have it, all that has to go out the window because "player choice is king" and if you refuse, "I'll just make my own version and then noone will use your s***y crap".
I cannot speak for other developers, but I use visible source. This allows the benefits of having the source publicly readable - such as additional 'eyes' to catch typos or aiding people in writing wikis - without the things inherent in true open source licenses I do not want, things like "I basically relinquish any ownership of the project. If you want to copy it, change one variable name, and re-release it, go ahead!". Given my treatment by the community, this is an especially serious concern.
...Who told you I was opposed to having my mods in packs? I am opposed to having broken versions in packs, especially if that version is taken as the "real" RC or people's first impressions are getting ruined by things like pack-created exploits (or worse, fundamentally gutted mods).
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I'd just like to point out three things:
1. There aren't very many mods that can be broken to the point that a griefer could obtain endgame material and rip a server apart within hours of it starting up. Rotarycraft, however, is in the minority here.
Ordinarily, it takes many hours of mining and crafting engines and machines to craft other engines and machines to create bedrock tools, but certain interactions (the XU bedrockium thing particular) can shorten the time and effort needed dramatically- to a couple thousand cobblestone and some diamonds. This has happened in the past, and is part of the reason for Reika's policies.
Have you ever tried using a bedrock axe in a forest? It chops down the whole forest. You may think that's fun, but your server admin and anyone else on the server most likely don't. Especially if someone does it two hours after the server goes online.
2. Reika's sourcecode is visible here.
3. The policy outlined in the OP here is much, much looser than the previous generation of Reika's policies.
[Edit: Wow, the ninja.]
There is no way you can possibly know or claim that, the people running your mods as intended wouldn't have had any interaction with you.... I ran as intended and only ask a few questions about reactors.
But ppl give up, he's not going to change his mind... A big step has been made in the right direction so at least is possible(however much of a pain) to balance the mods into your pack. I wouldn't hold my breath for any more.
Reika, I have heard the stories and I am not going to say I can imagine what a nightmare it was, because I have never been in that situation nor would I hope to. But don't let some kid(s) on the internet bother you until the day you die or until minecraft gets bought out by Yahoo.
The average modded minecraft player doesn't read these forums, the FTB subreddit or even the minecraft forums. To say Rotary Craft as a mod was labelled "bad" by the majority of the community is a massive overstatement. Not to mention this was ages ago in game time, the simple fact of the matter is that people are fickle. One day they are threatening to sue you, the next day they are loading up their copy of FTB Monster 2 to build that sweet bedrock reactor thing.
All jokes aside, this holds true. Many mods have had their downfall or name tarnished due to reasons of their cause or of someone else, but don't give up over it. Who cares if everyone thinks Rotary Craft is the CPU Melter 2000. You love to prove people wrong, why is this an exception? Creating a wall of text every time someone says that your mod causes lag or crashes does you no good, they don't care. If you want to prove them wrong, then they have to give your mods a second try. Of course, these people obviously aren't worth your time, but you let them ruin your own mod for the rest of us who would love nothing more than to make rainbow brick rotary machines.
I hope that you will eventually join the rest of the modded community, we need more unique mods and mod authors. You aren't an outcast, you just feel like one when you shouldn't. I would love to make packs around your mods, and if you ever change your mind, please let me know. Ironically, someone so bent on changing the minds of people seems to be the most resilient to suggestions, and I hope you can prove me wrong in the future.
I am not going to post here further, but I wish you the best of luck and hope to see you soon
The average modded minecraft player doesn't read these forums, the FTB subreddit or even the minecraft forums. To say Rotary Craft as a mod was labelled "bad" by the majority of the community is a massive overstatement. Not to mention this was ages ago in game time, the simple fact of the matter is that people are fickle. One day they are threatening to sue you, the next day they are loading up their copy of FTB Monster 2 to build that sweet bedrock reactor thing.
All jokes aside, this holds true. Many mods have had their downfall or name tarnished due to reasons of their cause or of someone else, but don't give up over it. Who cares if everyone thinks Rotary Craft is the CPU Melter 2000. You love to prove people wrong, why is this an exception? Creating a wall of text every time someone says that your mod causes lag or crashes does you no good, they don't care. If you want to prove them wrong, then they have to give your mods a second try. Of course, these people obviously aren't worth your time, but you let them ruin your own mod for the rest of us who would love nothing more than to make rainbow brick rotary machines.
I hope that you will eventually join the rest of the modded community, we need more unique mods and mod authors. You aren't an outcast, you just feel like one when you shouldn't. I would love to make packs around your mods, and if you ever change your mind, please let me know. Ironically, someone so bent on changing the minds of people seems to be the most resilient to suggestions, and I hope you can prove me wrong in the future.
I am not going to post here further, but I wish you the best of luck and hope to see you soon
I am not talking about random end users. I am talking about people with standing in the community, including at least three mod developers, eleven pack devs (and two former pack devs), two streamers, many, many people whose opinions are held in high regard on these forums, that sort of thing. There is currently an IRC discussion going on, this very moment where two people, both significant in the FTB team, appear to be trying to scare off people expressing contentment at these new freedoms, telling them, among other things, that all the installation integrity checking I do (things like .jar.zip, ID conflicts, et cetera) are "because a) Reika thinks he's better than everyone else, and is the minecraft police" and "reika has a gigantic persecution complex".
And if this is the kind of behavior I can expect from adults who are in positions of power, who are supposed to be honest and reasonable, then I want nothing to do with it.