Thank you for pointing out what was so blatantly obvious. You don't need to jump through hoops to use something if it is freely distributed.
Private Packs: How Do I Make One?
- Thread starter BeastCrafter
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Honestly, it's because of Mojang's loose licencing, (and Curse and MCForums' "pick names out of a hat" moderation policy) that all of this happens. If I were to put together a pack of all the best mods for Half-Life 2, or Knights of the Old Republic, and host it, people wouldn't care. (Well, they might care enough to play it, lol). Heck, some would be grateful for the mirror. MC is different, it's acidic.
I can really understand the mod devs in some way, they put hard effort in it and dont ask for money.
There is high pressure on them when mojang decides to update that frequent.
(Half-Life updates that frequent as well huh?)
In Addition to that Player want things like compatibilty with every mod, new stuff added to the mods, performant versions of the mods, and so on.
They have a lot to do and a lot to pay attention to, i really respect that they still trying their best.
There is high pressure on them when mojang decides to update that frequent.
(Half-Life updates that frequent as well huh?)
In Addition to that Player want things like compatibilty with every mod, new stuff added to the mods, performant versions of the mods, and so on.
They have a lot to do and a lot to pay attention to, i really respect that they still trying their best.
I agree with this. As an avid Skyrim (PC) player I tend to spend hours watching mod videos on youtube or scouring the TES Nexus for mods. Mod authors there freely upload their work to a website and don't make a dime. Most if not all of them indicate that all they want is a mention and/or link back to the original mod if you use their mod or part of it as part of your own mod. They do it for the love of Skyrim, the community and for their own love of creating mods.
To them having everyone talk about their mod and seeing it on the various 'Top Files' list seems to be more than enough for them.
I really do think that the way the mod authors for MC cling to their permissions with such fervor is hurting the community more than helping it.
The authors gave permission to FTB. That should be enough and cover all 'official' FTB modpacks and any private ones distributed by the launcher. The private packs don't appear on the launcher unless you have the special code, so I don't see what the big deal is.
If we've learned anything from piracy online, it's that people will do what they want. They'll resent you and do it even more if you try to tie their hands. All the mod authors are doing is pushing people to use MultiMC/dropbox instead of the easy and simple solution that FTB launcher was promised to be. There's nothing simple or easy about every person wanting to make a server for themselves and 2 friends having to jump through 6 rings of fire, swim across a lake infested with creepers with freakin' laser beams on their head to ask permission from 10-15 different people, and then have to wait for a response from those peolpe before they can even play on their server. Either they'll go the MultiMC/Dropbox way in which case the authors are the losers, or they just won't use mod and everyone's the loser.
I'll just put in my opinion on mod packs here.
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/regarding-private-modpacks.5883/#post-82184
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/regarding-private-modpacks.5883/#post-82184
I will now provide an example of why this is all (from my understanding) very, very silly.
ServerAdmin (SA) has mods on his server. He is using the FTBExamplePack (FTBEP) with some minor tweaks and a couple extra mods he has permission for.
From what i understand here so far, SA either has to direct his users to each mod in the FTBEP pack individually to install, or tell them to use the FTBEP pack and copy his smaller patch of mods into their FTBEP folder. Unless he goes and gets permissions from the authors of every single mod in FTBEP, so that he can distribute through the private system of the launcher. At which point it is no more complicated for users to just download the pack from SA then it is to use the launcher, rendering the whole system useless (and no, that is not an opinion, that is a fact).
This is completely asinine. To the authors, what is the difference between a user installing the FTBEP pack and adding a patch from SA manually, to a user just installing a private pack containing the same mods?
Absolutely none. You have just succeeded in adding more complication to a user/SA setting up, while giving, and taking, absolutely nothing to/from the mod authors.
If mods that are already being used in public packs still need individual permissions to be used in private packs just stop development now. Save yourselves the trouble of making a pointless feature no one will use.
ServerAdmin (SA) has mods on his server. He is using the FTBExamplePack (FTBEP) with some minor tweaks and a couple extra mods he has permission for.
From what i understand here so far, SA either has to direct his users to each mod in the FTBEP pack individually to install, or tell them to use the FTBEP pack and copy his smaller patch of mods into their FTBEP folder. Unless he goes and gets permissions from the authors of every single mod in FTBEP, so that he can distribute through the private system of the launcher. At which point it is no more complicated for users to just download the pack from SA then it is to use the launcher, rendering the whole system useless (and no, that is not an opinion, that is a fact).
This is completely asinine. To the authors, what is the difference between a user installing the FTBEP pack and adding a patch from SA manually, to a user just installing a private pack containing the same mods?
Absolutely none. You have just succeeded in adding more complication to a user/SA setting up, while giving, and taking, absolutely nothing to/from the mod authors.
If mods that are already being used in public packs still need individual permissions to be used in private packs just stop development now. Save yourselves the trouble of making a pointless feature no one will use.
I think I lost you at download the pack from SA. Download how? With the launcher it is literally one click install.(assuming nothing goes wrong)
I agree, and in most cases the mod authors would probably be unaware if we let someone put an unauthorized pack in the launcher.
The difference is trust. The mod authors are trusting us to follow their rules. So we do.
Quite to the contrary, I get several pm's a day with questions about private packs, and I have gotten several with fully authorized private packs we are working to add to the launcher. I even have one I made myself.
He means download the pack from SA via something like mediafire or dropbox. Yes the launcher is one click install, but only IF you use the available packs and only the available packs. As soon as a server admin decides to add (or remove) a few mods, the FTB launcher stops being useful.
If the mod author decides to add a few mods to an existing pack and/or remove some he has these choices:
1. Supply their users with long detailed instructions on where to get the added mods, which version (that might not even be available anymore), and how/which tab to install them in. They also has to supply instructions on which mods (if any) to disable. This does nothing but create hassle for the server admin and user alike. Users are much more likely to be put off by the laundry list they have to go through before being able to play and just go somewhere else. This is bad for a server, so an admin is much more likely to use one of the other options instead.
2. Use the FTB launcher to set up their server with the mods in question. Adding and removing just like in the first choice, but then importing his instance into MultiMC and supplying the users the whole bundle via Dropbox or mediafire. This solution is a little hassle to server admins, but easy for the user.
3. Just not use the mods. This is the simplest solution for everyone, but goes against everything FTB launcher was supposed to provide.
FTB launcher was/is promised to provide a simple way for people to play modded Minecraft. There's nothing easy about essentially having to deal with a modder's ego before being able to set up a server. Look at the modding community for games like The Elder Scrolls (or pretty much any Bethdesda game) or half life. Just look at http://nexusmods.com/. Tons of games modded and none of those authors clinging to permissions or their crazy demands. People download their creation and liked it enough to tell people about it and/or come back and leave a comment/endorsement, and that's enough for them. The author did it because it's what they like doing and sometimes for practice for school/work, and wanted to share it with others. That's what modding is supposed to be, and that's what it usually is.
Only in the Minecraft community is modding more about power, control, and sometimes money. What's the point in having people line up to ask if they can use your mod in a pack for their server? There is none other than being able to say no whenever they choose, which is pretty sad imo. Sad and naive to think people will not use a mod just because they weren't able to get permissions for it or even wait to set up their server until the author gets around to checking/replying to their messages. No one on this planet is going to wait 2-3 days or weeks for permission from some author who might not frequent forums unless they have some update to post or because they're too busy doing other things. Hell some players might not even speak enough English to ask for permission in what is considered a "respectable' way without sounding demanding. What about mod authors that don't speak English? From what I understand, the author of Rei's minimap is Japanese and doesn't talk much English. It's in all the packs though. Did he forfeit his 'right' to permissions because he doesn't speak English?
EDIT: Just checked he gave permission to include it wherever. Why is it that he doesn't care about people asking him for permission while others are on some ego trip?
Speaking of permissions though, where's the list of permissions for the Direwolf or Mindcrack pack? Do they get a free pass on the whole permission thing because they know some people? If not, where's their list of permissions?
What's next? Having to ask permission to disable a mod too? Or maybe permissions based off the number of people on the server. Author gives permission for 10 people. As soon as you hit 11 you lose it. Authors filing DCMA's on servers that didn't 'ask for permission?
And what about texture packs? People put a lot of work into those. Sometimes even more so than some mods, but none of them are asking people to ask for permissions before including the textures on a server.
This whole thing is pointless and ridiculous. The authors gave permission to FTB to include the mods in "official" packs. That is and should be good enough for people using FTB to supply users on their server a custom pack whether it was put together with a mix of mods found in various "official" packs or it's an official pack with a few mods thrown in. No one's going to go around asking 50+ authors for permission just because they want to add "Up-side-down Purple Nuclear Creepers(With unicorns) mod" to the Direwolf20 mod pack for their server. They're going to use MultiMC or Technic Launcher or some other solution where they don't have to deal with that crap. FTB will become a tool for single player and maybe updating certain mods.
I'm going to try to answer your questions without this devolving into an argument.
I think the private pack feature is very useful, you don't. Arguing about it won't change either of our minds.
Any mod pack that is officially made by the mod pack team falls under the permissions granted for FTB. This includes the direwolf and mindcrack packs.
As for what's next, that's kind of going off the wall. The only issue has been redistributing mods. Nothing to do with disabling mods, or how many people use them after they get them. The main issue hasn't changed.
Texture packs being downloaded from a server is completely mojang. Nothing we have to do with it. If someone had a problem about it, they would take it up with mojang.
The core of the thing is. I know for a fact that sirsengir said that his permission for FTB did not include any other packs aside from official FTB ones. So we can't just go against his wishes. And we can't assume that every other mod author giving permission to FTB includes all 3rd party packs distributed through FTB.
I hope that answers some of your questions.
I think the private pack feature is very useful, you don't. Arguing about it won't change either of our minds.
Any mod pack that is officially made by the mod pack team falls under the permissions granted for FTB. This includes the direwolf and mindcrack packs.
As for what's next, that's kind of going off the wall. The only issue has been redistributing mods. Nothing to do with disabling mods, or how many people use them after they get them. The main issue hasn't changed.
Texture packs being downloaded from a server is completely mojang. Nothing we have to do with it. If someone had a problem about it, they would take it up with mojang.
The core of the thing is. I know for a fact that sirsengir said that his permission for FTB did not include any other packs aside from official FTB ones. So we can't just go against his wishes. And we can't assume that every other mod author giving permission to FTB includes all 3rd party packs distributed through FTB.
I hope that answers some of your questions.
yeah and because of that, personally, I'd remove his mods from the modpacks and let his ego deflate a little bit. I assume he's a grown man. It'd be great if he acted like one.
What other modding community has authors that behave like this? I've never seen this kind of thing before even in much larger modding communities (like the TES community I keep using as a shining example of how modders SHOULD be). To be honest, it's kinda repugnant. I have much respect for the authors that have added their names to this thread (Edit: http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/ftb-central-mod-permissions.3801/). These authors are much more likely to have me suggest their mods to others and even earn my support through donations in the future.
The 'official' mod packs are covered, but as soon as a server admin adds say Treecapitator to the Direwolf20 modpack it's not the official modpack anymore. Any server admin wanting to create this Direwolf + Treecapitator modpack for players on their server will have to get permission from the treecapitator author AND all the authors of the 50+ mods found in the direwolf pack. This is ridiculous. It really is.
Sure I get having to get permission from mods that aren't already included in one FTB pack or another, but having to get ALL the permissions again just because you want to add a mod or two to an official pack is stupid. It really is. It's ego driven stupidity.
EDIT #2: Oh and speaking of which. According to the rules as soon as you add a mod to a pack you lose the permission to have it include Forestry since Sengir stated he only gives permission for it to be included in his friend's modpacks. Direwolf + Treecapitator isn't the official modpack anymore. Not only does the server admin have to go and get the 50+ permissions from the Direwolf mods + Treecapitator, but they lose permission for Forestry in the process. How any one can think this is ok or right is beyond me.
You could also learn to read my license for private server packs. But I see you'd rather bitch and moan about a non-issue. Carry on then.
Dex, then don't use the mods that all you have to do is waste a few minutes sending out pms/emails for and get lost. I'm sorry to be an ass about it, but respect is given when earned. Looking through the list *I* made, the only two I am unsure of is IC2 advanced machines (Open source but nothing stated explicitly in his thread), and XyCraft (WIP and no statement as well.) All others you have to ask or are granted permission to use, and to be honest I don't see anyone really saying no, more likely they will say 'Go forth and have fun.' If you haven't tried, or looked into it (Which is plainly obvious) you can't really talk can you?
Yup, after getting trough the forest, I think it's more and more doable. So I will give it a shot and will see how far I'll get
Has the mod pack team stated that the FTB launcher complies with this? It appears that the launcher will need to know who's active on the server in order for Forestry to be supported in packs. Presumably this bit is in your licence so that people don't pass around mod pack codes?
I consider a FTB private pack compatible with the license as long as the code is only handed out to players on the server.
For Permissions of Redpower 2: Slowpoke has read over Eloraams stuff and made a decision which you can find here.
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/regarding-private-modpacks.5883/page-4#post-90636
http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/regarding-private-modpacks.5883/page-4#post-90636
Without getting into this whole argument again for the millionth time, their rational is that one is for a private server, while the other is for Public distribution. Whomever is right or wrong, it really isn't needed in this discussion, nor is the topic of Technic really. It will cause arguments, and threads to get locked. Which would really suck.
Moving on, it seems that packs just got 10x easier with my above post, so yeah everyone!
Second that. Discussions are fine, statements saying anything about hating tekkit are not.
The only mod I haven't gotten in my private pack is XYCraft. And he does plan on opening up permissions somewhat for that when it is more complete.
Geez.... I just gave up.... spent about 4 hours trying to get permissions for everything I want to use. There are 3 that I can't get permission for so the whole process I went through was a waste of time. It looks like I'll just have to distribute the pack myself instead of through the FTB Launcher
. Although if the Ultimate Pack would come out sometime in the next century, I probably would just use that and give a big middle finger to the mods not included and just live without them.- Status