Official FTB Pack Suggestions Thread

[APEX_gaming]

So I think we need to remind ourselves about WHY mekanism is so OP.
It's not like every single thing in the mod is godlike compared to the competition, it, the digital miner's fast, but has a small mining radius, only up to 32/32, while the builder quarry goes up to 512/512, the void ore miner vet's ores slowly, but out of thin air, and the quantum quarry has it's own dimension.
The 5x or processing is nice, but by the time you can get it you probably don't need it

I think the biggest issue is power, 1 joule=10 RF and Mei generator s make a lot of joules. So, I think the best bet is to reduce the joule/RF ratio from 1/10 to 1/5, along with tweaking the generators to make less power if necessary. And then further tweak recipes for balance. This is actually what the people who make ATM are doing for ATM 3, not necessarily that ratio, but it does equil less. And they're also tweaking recipes. The Mei jetpack takes an ultimate gas tank and some DE upgrade keys.

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

Ah not a bad idea, but I think a swapped version would be good, other steel can be used in Mekanism machines but Mekanism steel can only be used for Mekanism, so Mekanism doesn't break other mods but can still be used.

Ah OK, I see where you're going there. I was thinking that you meant Mek would be late game, so you can't slip into it early using other steel, but once you're AT Mekanism, you can make the earlier stuff easier because you can use Mekanism steel for it, so having the early-game tedium being relieved by reaching the late-game mod.

If I were setting up a pack based off this, I might consider needing non-Mek steel in place of iron to create Mek steel. Regrowth did something similar, where all steel recipes, Me included, instead made (Garden Stuff) Wrought Iron, which required a Coke Oven to convert to Steel. That might not be it exactly, as it's been a while since I've played the pack, but it was something along those lines, and it significantly slowed down progression into Mek (as did a few other base recipe tweaks, which compounded as you delved further). It also meant that even though the Mek machines were fast, Steel was still roughly equivalent throughout the pack.

Yep, that's right - iron to wrought iron in the Garden Stuff bloomery furnace, then wrought iron to steel in the blast furnace. Also steel to refined steel in the blast furnace too.

But (though this wasn't in earlier versions) TPL also added the ability to make steel directly, through a multi-stage process, all using metallurgic infusers:

Crushed Iron -[40C]-> Wrought Iron -[30C]-> Enriched Iron -[10C]-> Steel dust

(the numbers and letters in parentheses are the number of carbon units required)

The idea behind adding this was that once you're at higher levels and needing a lot of it, you don't want to still be stuck with that slow, early game method, so he gave you a method that was expensive to set up, but could be made faster!

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

All very good points but in my opinion Mekanism is amazing for one reason. The self power moderation, unlike IC2 or any mod like it. Mekanism generators will moderate their own power. All of the non-renewable generators turn the fuel into a liquid, lava from coal, liquid biofuel from biofuel etc. And rather than burning through that entire fuel piece even if it doesn't need it, Mekanism will use 1 mb at a time and you never have loss.

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

All very good points but in my opinion Mekanism is amazing for one reason. The self power moderation, unlike IC2 or any mod like it. Mekanism generators will moderate their own power. All of the non-renewable generators turn the fuel into a liquid, lava from coal, liquid biofuel from biofuel etc. And rather than burning through that entire fuel piece even if it doesn't need it, Mekanism will use 1 mb at a time and you never have loss.

That behaviour might be replicated in other mod generators, I'm not sure, but that doesn't in any way diminish your excellent point - that is a REALLY nice feature that they have! Its what's driving my plan to go full ethylene power long term for my Regrowth playthrough; at least until I get to fusion. And even then, that might be supplemental!

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

That behaviour might be replicated in other mod generators, I'm not sure, but that doesn't in any way diminish your excellent point - that is a REALLY nice feature that they have! Its what's driving my plan to go full ethylene power long term for my Regrowth playthrough; at least until I get to fusion. And even then, that might be supplemental!

Love ethylene, the gas burning generator can go up to like 5k RF/tick for one block, decently sized big reactors cant even do that.

 

[APEX_gaming]

Love ethylene, the gas burning generator can go up to like 5k RF/tick for one block, decently sized big reactors cant even do that.

That's the issue, Mek generators make obscene amounts of power relative to cost, that ethylene generator literally works for potatoes, and isn't even hard to make. Compared to the big reactor, which takes obscene amounts of coal, iron, and yellorium, and space. There's really no contest. Now, if that generator created 500-1000 RF/T, it would be much more balanced and compatable

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

That's the issue, Mek generators make obscene amounts of power relative to cost, that ethylene generator literally works for potatoes, and isn't even hard to make. Compared to the big reactor, which takes obscene amounts of coal, iron, and yellorium, and space. There's really no contest. Now, if that generator created 500-1000 RF/T, it would be much more balanced and compatable

The generator itself is not hard to make, the infustructure required is, however, if it only produced 500-1000 the amount of power the crusher, Farmer of some sort, PRC used the gain would be barely any at all. The big reactor just takes fuel and makes power, and with the cyanite reprocessor you can recycle the fuel.

 

[Inaeo]

The generator itself is not hard to make, the infustructure required is, however, if it only produced 500-1000 the amount of power the crusher, Farmer of some sort, PRC used the gain would be barely any at all. The big reactor just takes fuel and makes power, and with the cyanite reprocessor you can recycle the fuel.

Yes, and no. The amount of power a single generator produced might be a break even, but an optimized system would be putting something like bread into the crusher (bread crushed into six Biofuel last I played with it). Therefore a single action would provide enough Biofuel for several generators. If you push that Biofuel into the PRC, the amount of Ethylene produced if much more efficient, meaning even more generators can be fueled. It increases the cost to set the system up, and it spreads out the footprint of the build, but it still produces ample power.

My last Mek build used a Windmill to power an AA Farmer, farming wheat. Excess seeds went to a Crusher to make Biofuel. Wheat was sent to a SAG Mill, which turned it into flour (with secondary output of more seeds). The flour was baked into bread via an Alloy Furnace. The bread fed a pair of Crushers, making more Biofuel. The Biofuel was sent to a pair of PRC's to create Ethylene. That Ethylene powered a battery of 16 Gas Burning Generators, each capable of making ~4kRF/t. I provided power to a server of four without hiccup for the rest of our time in the (custom, but default settings) pack.

Even at a fraction of the production rate, that setup has potential to create tons of power, reliably, forever.

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

Yes, and no. The amount of power a single generator produced might be a break even, but an optimized system would be putting something like bread into the crusher (bread crushed into six Biofuel last I played with it). Therefore a single action would provide enough Biofuel for several generators. If you push that Biofuel into the PRC, the amount of Ethylene produced if much more efficient, meaning even more generators can be fueled. It increases the cost to set the system up, and it spreads out the footprint of the build, but it still produces ample power.

My last Mek build used a Windmill to power an AA Farmer, farming wheat. Excess seeds went to a Crusher to make Biofuel. Wheat was sent to a SAG Mill, which turned it into flour (with secondary output of more seeds). The flour was baked into bread via an Alloy Furnace. The bread fed a pair of Crushers, making more Biofuel. The Biofuel was sent to a pair of PRC's to create Ethylene. That Ethylene powered a battery of 16 Gas Burning Generators, each capable of making ~4kRF/t. I provided power to a server of four without hiccup for the rest of our time in the (custom, but default settings) pack.

Even at a fraction of the production rate, that setup has potential to create tons of power, reliably, forever.

It's no different than Canola power, Tons of Power, Reliaby Forever, same thing. You see direwolf20's AoE canola tier 4 power system. Completely automated forever. 0 maintenance.
Mekanism is just capable of making more.

 

[APEX_gaming]

It's no different than Canola power, Tons of Power, Reliaby Forever, same thing. You see direwolf20's AoE canola tier 4 power system. Completely automated forever. 0 maintenance.
Mekanism is just capable of making more.

to much more. a canola generator with tier 4 oil can produce 350 RF/t. and this is quite the challenge to do, requiring automated lasers and empowering. meanwhile the Mek generator only requires you to run plants through a crusher, and water through a machine. give it power and you're producing 5,000 RF/T. even if we assume that canola oil doesn't cost any power to make (which it does) and ethylene takes 500 RF/T to make, that's still 13-15 times the power for much less infrastructure required. best case scenario and it's taking 1000 RF/T to make, it's still a whopping 11.5x the power output

 

[GamerwithnoGame]

I definitely understand the points about Mekanism generators producing a lot of power and I don't disagree. I also know that once you get a bunch of speed upgrades into the machines, they get VERY thirsty for power, so you need something with quite a bit of kick to compensate. Likewise, although Mekanism fusion is a net positive power generation method, you do need a buttload of power to kick it off the first time.

I don't think there is honestly a way TO agree on this! So I'm not going to try and get people to do so. All I will say is that I like the idea that in a heavily tweaked expert-style pack, you could eventually get to something like Mek's gas burning generators, so that after a considerable time and resource expenditure, you can eventually get to generators that are simple, low-maintenance, and produce a lot of power, because I don't know about you guys, but for me after a certain point I want SOME things to be easy and not require much thought, and power generation is one of them.

Does that make any sense? Or am I doing that rambling thing again...

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

I definitely understand the points about Mekanism generators producing a lot of power and I don't disagree. I also know that once you get a bunch of speed upgrades into the machines, they get VERY thirsty for power, so you need something with quite a bit of kick to compensate. Likewise, although Mekanism fusion is a net positive power generation method, you do need a buttload of power to kick it off the first time.

I don't think there is honestly a way TO agree on this! So I'm not going to try and get people to do so. All I will say is that I like the idea that in a heavily tweaked expert-style pack, you could eventually get to something like Mek's gas burning generators, so that after a considerable time and resource expenditure, you can eventually get to generators that are simple, low-maintenance, and produce a lot of power, because I don't know about you guys, but for me after a certain point I want SOME things to be easy and not require much thought, and power generation is one of them.

Does that make any sense? Or am I doing that rambling thing again...

Yes, thats a great idea, make the Mekanism Steel casings require something expensive like Draconic Cores or Botania Terrasteel, etc.

 

[APEX_gaming]

I definitely understand the points about Mekanism generators producing a lot of power and I don't disagree. I also know that once you get a bunch of speed upgrades into the machines, they get VERY thirsty for power, so you need something with quite a bit of kick to compensate. Likewise, although Mekanism fusion is a net positive power generation method, you do need a buttload of power to kick it off the first time.

I don't think there is honestly a way TO agree on this! So I'm not going to try and get people to do so. All I will say is that I like the idea that in a heavily tweaked expert-style pack, you could eventually get to something like Mek's gas burning generators, so that after a considerable time and resource expenditure, you can eventually get to generators that are simple, low-maintenance, and produce a lot of power, because I don't know about you guys, but for me after a certain point I want SOME things to be easy and not require much thought, and power generation is one of them.

Does that make any sense? Or am I doing that rambling thing again...

well if we adjust the conversion rate, it's also possible to change power requirements on said machines. also, last I checked with max speed AND energy upgrades Mek Machines only take about 200 RF/T, much less than fully upgraded TE machines

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

well if we adjust the conversion rate, it's also possible to change power requirements on said machines. also, last I checked with max speed AND energy upgrades Mek Machines only take about 200 RF/T, much less than fully upgraded TE machines

Eh, after some analysis of Other mods, Mekanism Power isnt that op, a DE reactor produces much more than Mekansim generators. A gas burning generator doesn't make enough power to keep a builder or tier 4 woot going, etc.

 

[APEX_gaming]

Eh, after some analysis of Other mods, Mekanism Power isnt that op, a DE reactor produces much more than Mekansim generators. A gas burning generator doesn't make enough power to keep a builder or tier 4 woot going, etc.

well, considering that you compared Gas burning generators to a DE reactor and not something more rational, such as slime generators, nether star generators, turbines. all of which it out performs when no upgrades are applied. I think you made my point

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

well, considering that you compared Gas burning generators to a DE reactor and not something more rational, such as slime generators, nether star generators, turbines. all of which it out performs when no upgrades are applied. I think you made my point

Nah, turbines are way better, I've made turbines that do 20k a tick 0 maintenance. A gas burning generator only does 5k..
I would compare the DE reactor to the fusion reactor.

 

[APEX_gaming]

Nah, turbines are way better, I've made turbines that do 20k a tick 0 maintenance. A gas burning generator only does 5k..
I would compare the DE reactor to the fusion reactor.

yeah, ONE generator, Turbines take up TONS of room. if you plan it efficiently, you could easily fit AT MINIMUM a dozen generators on the space of a turbine*

*note I am not aware how big the turbine must be to make that much power

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

yeah, ONE generator, Turbines take up TONS of room. if you plan it efficiently, you could easily fit AT MINIMUM a dozen generators on the space of a turbine*

*note I am not aware how big the turbine must be to make that much power

It's about 5 x 5 x 10. I really don't think it's the gas burning generator that's the problem, I think it would be the solar panels and windmill.

 

[APEX_gaming]

It's about 5 x 5 x 10. I really don't think it's the gas burning generator that's the problem, I think it would be the solar panels and windmill.

yeah, using garden cloches would still probably allow a smaller footprint

 

[Nuclear_Creeper0]

Im gonna wrap this debate up, Mekanism is a great mod, with a lot of cool things, Mekanism works well by itself, but when you put it with other mods it doesn't work out in a sense of balance, a simple way to add it to any pack, would be half the power from generators, and the steel casing would require like Vibrant Alloy and Manasteel.