Well, in my opinion, with existing alternatives like ender chests and mystcraft, Tesseracts shouldn't be balanced any more. If you feel that teleportation is a bad mechanics and is inferior in gameplay to Railcraft systems, just don't use these features (like I do), you can disable tesseracts in config for servers. In modded Minecraft you have essentially infinite resources at some point, you can't really balance things by cost.
New Thermal Expansion functionality/item: Tesseracts
- Thread starter Greytusks
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Conclusion: ongoing costs (besides energy costs in a component that is already connected to energy sources) just don't make sense in an always-on transport system.
Agreed but it would not be hard to make it use the already existing tesseract energy grid to power the transport systems. Does not even need to be a huge cost. Sort of like how RP systems need BT to fuction. But the cost is not so high as to break you just enough to make it something you need to think about while putting together.
Don't think it would be to much to ask toss 1 or 2 MJs away as upkeep for unlimited transportation.
What about a golem chain?
Hmm, I guess it would work by having liquid and item tesseracts have a second frequency selection, to choose an energy tesseract frequency to use energy from. Yeah that seems reasonable.
King Lemming, we solved it!
Golems are sexy bitches. I use them often.
But they have a limited range. And if you chain them to extend that you impart delay into your system. They also don't work across unloaded chunks. This is apples to oranges here.
True, as awesome as golem chaining seems in my head, I know it would never be practical (nor relevant to interdimensional travel. The last thing we need is golems walking through mystcraft portals
)I beg to differ. If, out of a practically infinite amount of lava you pump out of a nether lake, you lose 10%, and end up with merely a practically infinite lava tap right in your base, wouldn't it be worth saving all the trouble with cells and transposers and filters?
And if implemented exactly as I proposed, they could always be used in a dozen different ways within the lossless range. Power to your machines across several rooms, automating farms or boilers without pipes everywhere, sorting, processing and requesting systems, and more. Alternatively, for your quarry, you could set up a relay station with two tesseracts and a pipe inbetween every (maximum lossless range - 1) blocks. (Although in this case it is probably easier to just use an enderchest and a filter - if your processing system is RP-based.)
I don't want the tesseract to be useless or intrinsically worse than enderchests or any other system. But the problem is opposite: with lossless tesseracts, there is no reason to choose any other method. I want you as the player to think, to consider several options, and to choose one that is best for your situation.
I would've liked to see all the tesseracts in 1 block, instead of 3. so you could configure the input and output like the other TE machines. every send of item, power or liquid would have a small cost, and if you'd send more then 1 type, the cost would be slightly more expensive.
the receiving tesseract wouldn't require power to receive, it'd only take power to send.
the receiving tesseract wouldn't require power to receive, it'd only take power to send.
That would mean you need 40 iron instead of 16, still no big deal.[DOUBLEPOST=1359619438][/DOUBLEPOST]
No problem if you voidpipe all the cobble. And there's no reason to keep cobble thanks to Ignious extruders anyway.
Only if use use EE3 to "abuse" turning common metal into alien extra-dimensional pearls.
Item Tess's could have an inbuilt toggelable mode to automatically void cobble, gravel, dirt & sand. That would also help servers, as less stuff going into pipe/tube systems.
You know i think we are thinking about this wrong. While I still think a small upkeep cost of transporting items should be around. And that cost should be payable via the power network available with the tesseract basically just making it so you have to have one energy tesseract connected to a low power engine as your upkeep.
I was thinking about this. No hear me out I'm sure there will be a cry of OPness but what if you could toggle the transport tesseracts to convert unloved stuff like cobble directly into MJs and into the energy network? I am not talking huge gains here. Something like 1/10 the output of the magma loop currently available.
I was thinking about this. No hear me out I'm sure there will be a cry of OPness but what if you could toggle the transport tesseracts to convert unloved stuff like cobble directly into MJs and into the energy network? I am not talking huge gains here. Something like 1/10 the output of the magma loop currently available.
Is is simple if the liquid or item tesseracts would loose items i would use mystcraft and carts. With loosing power i am ok but items beeing destroyed is not fun for me.
So if i think Tesseracts are OP i would not use them as i still don't use EE. But if they are not competitive to a Minecart/Mystcraft Portal System they would not make sens. And i like that they are simple so it keeps some resources of the server freed that would otherwise be used.
So if i think Tesseracts are OP i would not use them as i still don't use EE. But if they are not competitive to a Minecart/Mystcraft Portal System they would not make sens. And i like that they are simple so it keeps some resources of the server freed that would otherwise be used.
Remember, King Lemmings design approach is to reduce lag and help stop servers having heart attacks.
I like the idea that you have to Tess that provides the energy for all other Tess's to work. Best thing is to have a special block that transmits the power. You only need the one on a server (so a community building), although more wouldn't hurt as a backup. Although you may need one for each private network, and one for the shared network.
Building the first few Tess's then is quite expensive, but once up and running, building more is not a problem as the infrastructure for them is in place.
I like the idea that you have to Tess that provides the energy for all other Tess's to work. Best thing is to have a special block that transmits the power. You only need the one on a server (so a community building), although more wouldn't hurt as a backup. Although you may need one for each private network, and one for the shared network.
Building the first few Tess's then is quite expensive, but once up and running, building more is not a problem as the infrastructure for them is in place.
One pretty neat function for the tesseracts I've experimented with is a quick switch for fuel types to feed boilers. You can stick a tesseract right next to a boiler's firebox and it'll input, then all you need is some tesseracts getting different fuel types from tanks and you can swap between feeding something biofuel or fuel by changing frequencies.
I have some pictures related to this system in the following posts: post 1 post 2
In the pcitures you can see that a single tesseract can feed a lot of stuff with their throughput - as long as you can provide one with enough steam a single tesseract can provide 72 industrial engines with steam, as shown in one of the pics.
Edit: Also, I won't be the first or last to say this, but ANY loss of items or liquid in a tesseract will make them automatically useless in the eyes of most people. If I'm transporting diamonds or delicious, yellow fuel I don't wanna see any loss of it. I like the idea of having the multi-frequency thing so it can draw from the power network though, and it seems like it wouldn't be entirely too hard to implement, but looks can be deceiving.
I have some pictures related to this system in the following posts: post 1 post 2
In the pcitures you can see that a single tesseract can feed a lot of stuff with their throughput - as long as you can provide one with enough steam a single tesseract can provide 72 industrial engines with steam, as shown in one of the pics.
Edit: Also, I won't be the first or last to say this, but ANY loss of items or liquid in a tesseract will make them automatically useless in the eyes of most people. If I'm transporting diamonds or delicious, yellow fuel I don't wanna see any loss of it. I like the idea of having the multi-frequency thing so it can draw from the power network though, and it seems like it wouldn't be entirely too hard to implement, but looks can be deceiving.
Proof of this, Netherrack in Magma Crucibles. KL put it in as a way to get relatively free energy from the Nether without the associated lag that pumping requires. When it was 4kMj/bucket there were two camps.
1: The people who saw it as too expensive since they can just pump lava for free.
2: The people who saw it as too cheap because it didn't require you to set up something as complex as pumping lava.
The fact that it lowered lag on a server never really entered the discussion. Although because of his explanation of why it was done I scrapped plans to ever pump lava and have done 2 Netherrack -> Lava -> Magmatic builds as my backup, on-demand power structure to augment my boilers. Both were in my SSP worlds.
In the end the discussion of balance and cost is moot. Notice that every post pointing out how any proposed balance point is trivial starts off with, essentially, "With this other mod you can just..." Why does it make it moot? Because not everyone plays with that other mod. People add, or remove, mods to suit their tastes. So for every person shooting down balance points based on the fact that "with EE3 you can just do this" there's probably just as many people who aren't using EE3. Balance presuming EE3 is present and you screw over those people. Balance presuming EE3 isn't present and the balance is trivial with it in place.
Note, EE3 is just used as an example, balancing against the synergies of other mods will always net the same paradox.
BTW, KL, if you read this, thank you for these! Saves me from having to try to noodle out how the current incarnation of teleport pipes works!
I think you're mostly right, but there's definitely a core 'ecology' of mods that should probably enter consideration when balancing an item (IC2, BC, RP2). Beyond that it's just up to the modder to express their intent via the item's balance - whether that intent takes other mods into account is up to them.
Or, yanno, the server admin could just disable the iron to enderpearl recipe for the minium stone... that would solve about 90% of what I'm still hearing of 'problems'.
About item loss... losing 10% of your lava from the nether isn't too bad. Losing 10% of your *Fuel*, or your Liquid Honey, on the other hand, is a lot worse. These things are used for a LOT more than just pumping lava.
About item loss... losing 10% of your lava from the nether isn't too bad. Losing 10% of your *Fuel*, or your Liquid Honey, on the other hand, is a lot worse. These things are used for a LOT more than just pumping lava.
Yep, which is precisely why balance is a fair topic - modders take this ecosystem into account when designing. There may be no rulebook in the sandbox, but there's an unwritten code (get it?) If you were Pahimar, you'd likely spend an inordinate amount of your day thinking about an item's value, which is balance distilled to its rawest form. If for no other reason than not wanting to trivialize a fellow dev's hard work by making it "less appealing" to the end user, a reasonable amount of input from the community playing your game shouldn't be seen as pointless.
Anyhow, King's a damn champion when it comes to communicating with the unwashed masses on his mod, and I have no idea where he finds the time, considering his RL creds / work / studies. He seems to care, end users care, good discussion ensues, certainly not moot!