More on Microsoft's MC plans

[Renato Lopes]

Back in the 80s when I was a Unix System Admin AT&T and BSD (Berkeley Software Development) had a stranglehold on Unix licenses for many thousands of dollars. Sun Microsystems built one of the first complete 16-bit (and later 32 bit) computer systems (68000 based) and bought a permanent BSD license, bringing Unix to the desktop very cheaply.

Now you can get various distros of both AT&T (Linux) and BSD Unix for free or nearly so. You can even get a free copy of SUN's "last" Unix distro, called Solaris (BSD based), for Intel-based systems... it is still maintained and updated periodically. I still run Solaris on my 2002 Sony laptop, and will probably put the latest release on my 2009 Atom-based HP Netbook (currently running Win 10) this year after the TV tuner software to replace Media Center becomes available and I can update my desktop.

Does it really surprise you that Microsoft is allowing a year of free updates to Windows 10 after they only charged $40 to update from Win 7 to 8, seeing how that seems to be the trend for major Operating Systems? They're also trying to put a dent into OS piracy right now, you know...

The only thing that surprises me is that Apple basically customized a public domain OS (BSD Unix) and gets away with charging for it.

Yeah, I don't know what to say about this, but when I say windows 10 is evil I mean:

• Watch what I do so they can provide focused ads (and I hope someone do a adblock app for windows 10 itself)
• Piracy protection (not that's a bad thing... but they sohould invest more on detecting virus on a system rather than detecting a pirated game right?)
• No option to go back
• They still watch you

Even if I love windows 7 and all that stuff, I still think they earned more money getting windows 10 free than making it a 80$ upgrade that everyone would buy (And I mean it)

It may not be justifiable to rant at Microsoft for being huge and evil, but Apple is another story. They modified a bunch of free, open source stuff, and now they're making gajillions of dollars. They also hide all internal functions on mobile devices - you can't view the folder hierarchy, or delete save files directly, or even back stuff up. That, combined with the fact that you can't put your own software on those mobile devices reduces their usefulness, dependent on how "techy" you are. Not being able to do something unless someone else has already programmed something to do that for you is huge - to me, that stops it from actually being a "personal" computer.

That said, at least their developer tools are open source now, even if you still have to pay to get something onto the app store. Maybe they'll stop being evil eventually.

On topic: uh... [Insert comment on how people overreacting to anything Microsoft does are not justified]

( I use android anyways )

Yes, I don't respect some Microsoft decisions, but that does not mean I hate them. I just hate windows 10. For example, Look at Apple TV

Apple TV will suck, and I'm not saying that because I know, but I fell. I imagine Apple TV worst than a IBuyPower (A Steam machine), but I'm not calling IBuyPower bad, I'm calling it good. I imagine Apple TV as a gaming platform that can only run Angry birds and some other 2D games, but they saying it will be better than xbox and playstation? They're so dump, people who buy thinking that will be so raged, and steam will conquer them all.

TBH framerates over 60 are kind of a waste unless your monitor's refresh rate can actually display that. I'd rather have bug free and 60 FPS than buggy and 200+ FPS.

(I only played on a gaming pc once, and that was left 4 dead 2 for 5 minutes, so idk how that feels), anyways, I'm not telling you to choose to play 200+ or fixed 60 fps, I'm just saying that you have the freedom to choose! Your pc is yours, you play as you want!! (Monitor lag?LOL)

 

[Padfoote]

Yeah, I don't know what to say about this, but when I say windows 10 is evil I mean:

• Watch what I do so they can provide focused ads (and I hope someone do a adblock app for windows 10 itself)
• Piracy protection (not that's a bad thing... but they sohould invest more on detecting virus on a system rather than detecting a pirated game right?)
• No option to go back
• They still watch you

Even if I love windows 7 and all that stuff, I still think they earned more money getting windows 10 free than making it a 80$ upgrade that everyone would buy (And I mean it)

The first point is covered with the Enterprise version IIRC. The second comes down to the fact that there are companies that focus solely on virus protection, MS should let them do what they're good at since they will always be better than the MS attempt. The third point is false, as you can go back to your previous OS version. I know because I see the option whenever I go looking for settings. On the fourth one, again, Enterprise version.

(Monitor lag?LOL)

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/487399/hz-vs-fps-what-39-s-the-difference/

 

[Hambeau]

Yeah, I don't know what to say about this, but when I say windows 10 is evil I mean:

• Watch what I do so they can provide focused ads (and I hope someone do a adblock app for windows 10 itself)
• Piracy protection (not that's a bad thing... but they sohould invest more on detecting virus on a system rather than detecting a pirated game right?)
• No option to go back
• They still watch you

Even if I love windows 7 and all that stuff, I still think they earned more money getting windows 10 free than making it a 80$ upgrade that everyone would buy (And I mean it)



( I use android anyways )

Yes, I don't respect some Microsoft decisions, but that does not mean I hate them. I just hate windows 10. For example, Look at Apple TV

Apple TV will suck, and I'm not saying that because I know, but I fell. I imagine Apple TV worst than a IBuyPower (A Steam machine), but I'm not calling IBuyPower bad, I'm calling it good. I imagine Apple TV as a gaming platform that can only run Angry birds and some other 2D games, but they saying it will be better than xbox and playstation? They're so dump, people who buy thinking that will be so raged, and steam will conquer them all.



(I only played on a gaming pc once, and that was left 4 dead 2 for 5 minutes, so idk how that feels), anyways, I'm not telling you to choose to play 200+ or fixed 60 fps, I'm just saying that you have the freedom to choose! Your pc is yours, you play as you want!! (Monitor lag?LOL)

When I mentioned Windows being free for a year to try to stop piracy, I wasn't referring to games... I was referring to Windows itself being pirated. I have seen figures that indicate that less than 20% of all copies of Windows 7 sold in Asia were legal, including many sold on e-bay and other on-line sources as "OEM versions". With Windows 10 all they did was relax the activation software so that illegitimate Windows copies would be allowed to update to legitimate copies of Windows 10.

Once Windows 10 is on a machine Microsoft can keep that system more free from malware using "forced patching". This is necessary because too many people were either unable to patch ("illegal copy") or refused to patch because of what I call "Corporate Giant paranoia", leaving gaping security holes that in some cases date back to Windows XP and even before [Reference... a recent major security hole was found in a standard public domain TCP/ip protocol that is used in most home routers and has existed since the mid 1980s!].

 

[Renato Lopes]

Oh, right.
Still, I'm pissed at their focused ads.

And lol, I am planning to buy a steam machine, do you guys think my tv will be able to play at more than 60fps? (is a different story monitors and TV's?)

 

[Renato Lopes]

My TV costs the eyes of my head so don't go easy ok

 

[RavynousHunter]

Oh, right.
Still, I'm pissed at their focused ads.

And lol, I am planning to buy a steam machine, do you guys think my tv will be able to play at more than 60fps? (is a different story monitors and TV's?)

Please tell me you're taking the piss. Refresh rates are a thing, and they matter.

 

[Renato Lopes]

Right

but while we talk here about windows (its not even minecraft anymore wtf).....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ge-Sony-and-Microsoft-as-a-gaming-device.html
http://shield.nvidia.com/android-tv

And I tought only microsoft and sony make dump decisions (Fortunately they're making none at the moment)

 

[Hambeau]

The most probable reason for that is the limitations placed by hardware...While consoles are somewhat close to pcs in terms of CPU/GPU capabilities and RAM/mass storage capacity and tablets are slowly getting there, I doubt you'll see many phones with enough ram and/or storage for shaders any time soon and they want to keep the standard feature set common to all devices for cross-compatibility.

Having said that, it's probably good that most shaders are client sided.

Well, Samsung just announced 12Gbit memory chips for phones... 4 chips will equal 6G 8-bit memory. While this only amounts to 1.5G 32-bit memory locations, I may be eating my words sooner than I think

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I find it more than a bit disingenuous to call MC Win10 'multi-platform' when it's still only windows OS (on the PC, and the x-box whatever-it-is-these-days).

Not that I'm surprised, but still... very misleading.

 

[Azzanine]

I find it more than a bit disingenuous to call MC Win10 'multi-platform' when it's still only windows OS (on the PC, and the x-box whatever-it-is-these-days).

Not that I'm surprised, but still... very misleading.

Still technically true.
Omni-platform needs to become a thing.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[RavynousHunter]

Alas, until Windows becomes the only operating system, which it won't because people would be crying monopoly even more than when MS had the audacity to include a browser with their OS, that will be difficult bordering on impossible. Languages like Java, .Net, and Python are a fair step in the right direction, though, as well as things like the Qt framework. Even then, they mostly just support the big three (Windows, MacOS, and the more popular flavours of Linux) and not, say, Joe Buttram OS. You'd need to account for different file i/o architecture, memory paging, data handling, everything, and that takes a LOT of time.

 

[Hambeau]

I find it more than a bit disingenuous to call MC Win10 'multi-platform' when it's still only windows OS (on the PC, and the x-box whatever-it-is-these-days).

Not that I'm surprised, but still... very misleading.

MCPE 0.12.1 was released last week for both IOS and Android and is interoperable with Win10 MC beta according to what I've read, although the number of players in a game has dropped from 8 to 5.

 

[Wagon153]

Oh, right.
Still, I'm pissed at their focused ads.

And lol, I am planning to buy a steam machine, do you guys think my tv will be able to play at more than 60fps? (is a different story monitors and TV's?)

How much you paid for the TV matters very little. You could have bought a 30hz 1080p TV with a ton of features(which drove the cost up) What brand and model is it?

And don't just give me specs of the TV off the box. The manufacturers often achieve those specs through trickery.

 

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Still technically true.
Omni-platform needs to become a thing.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

I never said it was untrue, I just said it was misleading and disingenuous, and I stand by that statement.

Alas, until Windows becomes the only operating system, which it won't because people would be crying monopoly even more than when MS had the audacity to include a browser with their OS, that will be difficult bordering on impossible. Languages like Java, .Net, and Python are a fair step in the right direction, though, as well as things like the Qt framework. Even then, they mostly just support the big three (Windows, MacOS, and the more popular flavours of Linux) and not, say, Joe Buttram OS. You'd need to account for different file i/o architecture, memory paging, data handling, everything, and that takes a LOT of time.

No, Windows won't become the only operating system because it is a resource-hogging piece of garbage that is poorly designed, poorly implemented, and the rules the devs are required to follow start at asinine and go rapidly downhill from there.

For example, you have a bug returning an incorrect value. Instead of going in and actually fixing your code, windows will frequently simply write a subprogram to correct the incorrect results to the correct one. Rinse, wash, repeat and you have a horribly bloated monstrosity which has so many points of failure that the only miracle is that it occasionally works, even if less efficiently than it could.

Also, windows-exclusive resources tend to be less efficient than open source resources. As a primary example, Half Life engine moved to OpenGL not just to make it linux and mac compatible but because it significantly improved the benchmarks. Which is why you are seeing more and more Steam games backported into linux compatibility (see also: Civ V, X-Com, and even Terraria). Meaning there is no particular NEED to make a game windows exclusive other than simply force of habit and being trained on the windows resources to begin with.

Granted, there's also a lot of problems with open-sourced resources, such as random forking and branching, and ensuring you have the right version for what you are doing, as well as 'too many cooks syndrome', but it beats the pants off of the coding philosophy which MS instils in its employees.

 

[RavynousHunter]

You just...completely missed the point, dude. I mean, utterly, totally, and irrevocably missed it by several leagues. My actual point was that unless one operating system dominates 100% of the market, omni-platform technologies are simply going to be impossible, by definition. Please, try actually reading my post again, past the first third of the first sentence. Putting words in my mouth does not make me a happy beaver.

 

[GreenZombie]

You just...completely missed the point, dude. I mean, utterly, totally, and irrevocably missed it by several leagues. My actual point was that unless one operating system dominates 100% of the market, omni-platform technologies are simply going to be impossible, by definition. Please, try actually reading my post again, past the first third of the first sentence. Putting words in my mouth does not make me a happy beaver.

I don't know. I develop applications in c++ that run on windows desktop, Mac OS, iOS, windows phone and Android.

 

[RavynousHunter]

That's still a finite number of a far larger set of available operating systems. That set is huge; covering everything (as the prefix omni indicates) would be difficult bordering on impossible. Getting 100% coverage would be exceptionally hard and require a tonne of work.

 

[OreCruncher]

Getting 100% coverage would be exceptionally hard and require a tonne of work.

And a metric-crap tonne of money.

 

[RavynousHunter]

And a metric-crap tonne of money.

Ohhhhh yeah. Unless you're doing a FOSS thing. That might actually be the most efficient way to do such a thing, actually, since you're basically crowd-sourcing and can get people who are using Joe Buttram OS to add to said project.

 

[OreCruncher]

Ohhhhh yeah. Unless you're doing a FOSS thing. That might actually be the most efficient way to do such a thing, actually, since you're basically crowd-sourcing and can get people who are using Joe Buttram OS to add to said project.

It still costs money in FOSS. It's just not recognized as such. This is where the maxim "time is money" comes in. It's just that in this case each contributor decides what their time is worth and whether there is enough value to them to contribute.