Is GregTech just going to keep getting harder?

[DoctorOr]

Forestry Bronze, Forestry bronze can be crafted I think with the ratio dust:bronze 4:4, he makes it so that it is 4:2, which is ridiculous as it requires 4 dust to make bronze.

(BTW: The forestry ratio is 3 ingots plus 1 ingot. Forestry doesn't have dusts.)

I agree that should be changed back, it's just annoying.

mDiyo makes the point that "Forestry is the only mod with that ratio", and he's right. Furthermore, from a game design perspective things are unchanged.

If you play Forestry, alone or with buildcraft, and you go mine three copper ores and one tin ore, you can make 4 bronze ingots.


If you play IC2 and you go mine three copper ores and one tin ore, you can make 4 bronze ingots after you macerate the ores.

If you play Forestry+IC2, and you go mine three copper ores and one tin ore, you can make eight bronze ingots.

If you play Forestry+IC2+GT, and you go mine three copper ores and one tin ore, you can once again only make 4 bronze ingots.

Which is the odd man out?

People want maceration plus 3+1=4 because people, by and large, want free stuff they don't have to work for. At least they think they do. Games that provide such things die out really fast. The human psyche has evolved to value effort, and give effortless things no value.

That's GregTech's ore dictionary unificator affecting the output of TE machines. So when you pulverize copper ore, you get IC2 copper dust (or whatever is selected in the config) and not pulverized copper, so you have only one kind of copper dust and ingots to deal with.
Actually, TE is being deliberately obstructive here, since you have to go to TE's config and change a setting before it'll allow that to happen.

​

Actually, no. That's GT trying to override some TE pulverizer recipes that are inferior outputs with the macerator one that's superior.
Ore unification with GT works as it stands, as FTB 1.4.7 unifying to Redpower works for everything except dungeon loot. The server I'm on, we unify everything to TE ingots and storage blocks actually. They look better, and everybody only did Redpower because only Redpower storage blocks could be microblocked. But it's GregTech actually doing that unification, and without GT all your ingots will vary depending on the method used to process the ore.

 

[agaricus]

everything except dungeon loot

GregTech still doesn't unify dungeon loot? Curious why, its not that difficult...

 

[b0bst3r]

If you play Forestry+IC2+GT, and you go mine three copper ores and one tin ore, you can once again only make 4 bronze ingots.

With GT 3 copper +1 tin makes 2 bronze

 

[Runo]

thatnk you, doctoror. the stupid bronze gripe is repeated ad nauseum by people who dont know what theyre talking about. the config is there to avoid doubling production for forestry, so its there to avoid messing with someones mod, not the opposite.

bobster, in packs you can macerate/pulverize ores for double production. forestry doesnt have a double production machine, so bundling it with other packs makes forestry easier unintentionally.

 

[Daemonblue]

With GT 3 copper +1 tin makes 2 bronze

He does specify ores and not dusts so it's not wrong. I think the bigger problem is nerfing the recipe to be below the dust recipe, where if you do it in bar form you only get 1 bronze ingot while if you do it in dust form it's 2 bronze ingots.

 

[Loufmier]

while forestrys bronze recipe is likely was balanced without ore output multiplying by any other mod, ic2 bronze still doesnt make much sense, because 50% loss during the process is a bit, lets say, irrational. if process is indeed supposed to have some loss, a 25% would reflect that quite nicely and didnt have any issue with logic. although, seeing gt brass recipe i do have some doubts about any possibility of applying logic to gt...

 

[b0bst3r]

If I remember correctly it used to be 3 copper + 1 tin for 3 bronze but then he nerfed it again to 2, which you're quite correct makes even less sense, but then you can say that about almost every nerf GT makes.

 

[DoctorOr]

while forestrys bronze recipe is likely was balanced without ore output multiplying by any other mod, ic2 bronze still doesnt make much sense, because 50% loss during the process is a bit, lets say, irrational.

It's a freaking game. With zombies. And you can carry a thousand cubic meters of stone which weigh several tons. Don't even try.

Besides, you don't know what the density of bronze in the minecraft universe is.

 

[Lambert2191]

If you play IC2 and you go mine three copper ores and one tin ore, you can make 4 bronze ingots after you macerate the ores.

If you play Forestry+IC2, and you go mine three copper ores and one tin ore, you can make eight bronze ingots.

If you play Forestry+IC2+GT, and you go mine three copper ores and one tin ore, you can once again only make 4 bronze ingots.

And in RR; 3 copper ore + 1 tin ore = 2 bronze ingots.

 

[Loufmier]

It's a freaking game. With zombies. And you can carry a thousand cubic meters of stone which weigh several tons. Don't even try.

Besides, you don't know what the density of bronze in the minecraft universe is.

now that you`ve mention Steeves strength, compressor and bending machine doesnt fit at all in this world...

and since metals density wasnt specified i can assume that all ingots have same volume

 

[DoctorOr]

And in RR; 3 copper ore + 1 tin ore = 2 bronze ingots.

uh, no

3 copper ore + 1 tin ore = 4 ingots on RR.

Actually, with a grinder it's more like 6 ingots.

 

[Lambert2191]

pretty certain you're wrong there Doc, at least in the version I'm playing it's 3 copper ingots and 1 tin ingot making 1 bronze ingot.

Just taken this:

 

[Daemonblue]

pretty certain you're wrong there Doc, at least in the version I'm playing it's 3 copper ingots and 1 tin ingot making 1 bronze ingot.

Yes, that' the GT nerf to ingots, however if you grind them to dusts you get 2 bronze instead of 1, same for if you use the TC smeltery.

 

[Lambert2191]

ah wait, so if I mix the dusts together instead of mixing the ingots I get doubt output? sweet

will still use the smeltery though, by far the best output I've seen so far

 

[Daemonblue]

Yea, the 3 copper dust + 1 tin dust for 2 bronze dust is baseline IC2. GT then nerfs the forestry 3 copper ingots + 1 tin ingot to give only 1 bronze ingot, which is below what you would get from IC2. TC's smeltery is basically a macerator - it doubles the output of ores put into it. This means it's good for early game before you get the pulverizer, but since you already have one in your LP using the smeltery to make bronze is a bit of a waste since you can't get the bonus dusts.

 

[GPuzzle]

Just think of this:
A golden apple can be made by putting 8 gold blocks around an apple.
A gold block is a cubic meter of gold.
The total of golden apples you can carry in one inventory area is 64.
There are 36 inventory spaces in the player's inventory.
That equals in 18432 cubic meters of gold (and a fuckton of apples).
In kilos, that is equal to 355405824 kilograms of gold in Steve's inventory.
An average apple weighs 242 grams.
So that equals to 557,568 kilograms of apples or a total of...
355406381,68 kilograms.
Given that an average man has a weight of 70 kilos...
Steve's carrying 5077234,0224 times his own weight in his inventory.

That's preety damn intense.

 

[YX33A]

Just think of this:
A golden apple can be made by putting 8 gold blocks around an apple.
A gold block is a cubic meter of gold.
The total of golden apples you can carry in one inventory area is 64.
There are 36 inventory spaces in the player's inventory.
That equals in 18432 cubic meters of gold (and a fuckton of apples).
In kilos, that is equal to 355405824 kilograms of gold in Steve's inventory.
An average apple weighs 242 grams.
So that equals to 557,568 kilograms of apples or a total of...
355406381,68 kilograms.
Given that an average man has a weight of 70 kilos...
Steve's carrying 5077234,0224 times his own weight in his inventory.

That's preety damn intense.

"But sir, wouldn't eight cubic meters of gold jammed into a apple be... unhealthy?" "Of course not! It gives Regeneration, Resistance, Fire Resistance, completely fills you up and best of all, feeds you for quite some time!"

Primo Troll Science involved in the production of "Good" Golden Apples.

 

[GPuzzle]

"But sir, wouldn't eight cubic meters of gold jammed into a apple be... unhealthy?" "Of course not! It gives Regeneration, Resistance, Fire Resistance, completely fills you up and best of all, feeds you for quite some time!"

Primo Troll Science involved in the production of "Good" Golden Apples.

"But Sir, how are you going to be able to carry even 1 cubic meter of gold? They weigh around 19,3 tonnes... This apple is going to weigh around 154642 kilograms... I don't think you are going to be able to even carry it around?"
"Shut up I break wood with my fists."

 

[DoctorOr]

pretty certain you're wrong there Doc, at least in the version I'm playing it's 3 copper ingots and 1 tin ingot making 1 bronze ingot.

[DOUBLEPOST=1370460256][/DOUBLEPOST]

will still use the smeltery though, by far the best output I've seen so far

It's 3+1 = 2, exactly (and can't be configured differently). The only caveat being that if you use ores, it doubles the ore first. So you're getting 6+2 = 4

 

[gattsuru]

ah wait, so if I mix the dusts together instead of mixing the ingots I get doubt output? sweet

The difference is that turning ore into dust doubles your total output to start with, assuming an IC2 Macerator or Thermal Expansion Pulverizer (slightly more with a GregTech grinder). Since Forestry doesn't have an equivalent ore smasher, you can't get dusts like that.

((If you /are/ using a more recent GregTech, then you do want to mix them as dusts rather than ingots, but that's because he's nerfed crafting ingots separately down to three copper ingot + one tin ingot = one bronze ingot, while three copper dust + one tin dust = two bronze dust. That's only in an environment with IC2 + GregTech.))

Of course, any sort of block-by-block comparison falls apart since Forestry, IC2/GregTech, and Thermal Expansion all have /radically/ different ore generation defaults and copper/tin consumption rates. IC2 provides and consumes a hella lot more of these metals, and GregTech's changes make a lot more sense if you presume those rates of ore availability -- otherwise, you can make Forestry tools as fast as you find coal or farm charcoal..