In your next Direwolf20 build, will you bother with IC2?

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KirinDave

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I think that the modular power tools armour is actualy worse than a gravi/Q suit armour, mostly because of that fact that the MPT armor actualy seems to cost more (most of making the Q suit involves waiting for your mass fab to make UU, all that requires is power and time really)
I think the costs are roughly equivalent, because you consume lots of resources to make the UU matter (recycle from a quarry or just huge quantities of lava, or complex and expensive reactor designs, or lots of steel for turbines). But most of the cost in the current recipes is for absurd sums of refined iron for machine blocks.

and because of the whole weight mechanic on the power tools armour makes you naturally move slower when you have it upgraded
Important things to understand about building high-tech modular powersuits:
  1. You get up to 25kg free.
  2. Components in an armor set share power resources.
  3. The leg component can compensate for weight overages at the cost of power.
  4. Two forms of aerial motion are available with no weight or power cost and very low resource cost.
  5. Booster systems are additive, and jumps are cheaper than flight.
  6. Jetpacks provide more horizontal thrust than vertical, jetboots provide more vertical thrust than horizontal. (and see 3 & 4 and think hard for a sec about how this might be used to improve flight).
  7. Forcefields are weightless, and tuned so that a few forcefields draining power from an HV capacitor will be more weight-effective than using diamond plate. MV capacitors can get drained very quickly.
The lower power options are there so you can still use the system early on and get good results even if diamonds are still super rare and difficult to obtain. That's also why the Salvage mechanic exists: the system is meantto be modified and upgraded over time. It also means that there are "flight" options before full flight, which is really good to see.

If it was not for the weight mechanic, and a way to have more control over when you use upgrades, I would like the modular armour more, but otherwise the Q suit is probably better.
I made a suit that was nearly the equivalent of a gravity suit, missing only the helmet status features and hovering. Weight was not an issue. It's only really an issue before you can afford forcefield emitters, which is a really nice balance point in my opinion.
 

jnads

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Grav Suit + Ultimate Hybrid Solar Helmet + Vajra + Mining Laser >>>>>>>> Any Modular Power Suit Build

If you're going for ultimate god mode, nothing beats good 'ole IC2 (throw in Quantum Leggings for Super Speed and Quantum Boots for fall damage / super jump). Ultimate Hybrid Solar Helmet can recharge all of the IC2 armors (unfortunately, you can't entirely craft it in DW20).

If you're aiming for something you can build in reasonable time...... MPS is the guy.


To anyone arguing otherwise: Okay, we'll go in a server. I get all that stuff above. You get any MPS build. We'll see who wins a fight.
 

KirinDave

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Grav Suit + Ultimate Hybrid Solar Helmet
Just an aside, UHSH works with MPS components. Tested and confirmed.

+ Vajra + Mining Laser >>>>>>>> Any Modular Power Suit Build
A good enchant set on a wand of excavation blows away most uses for the mining laser. I've never really seen a point to scatter or explosive modes.

If you're going for ultimate god mode, nothing beats good 'ole IC2 (throw in Quantum Leggings for Super Speed and Quantum Boots for fall damage / super jump).
I feel like you may not know what you can build with MPS yet. MPS does this part as well and cheaper. And it gives you this whacky flying power dash that for my money is faster than the grav suit boost. You jump 5 spaces instead of 9, but flight so lol to that.

To anyone arguing otherwise: Okay, we'll go in a server. I get all that stuff above. You get any MPS build. We'll see who wins a fight.
I do not understand what you mean. Like a mining fight? Or like a PvP match? Because we'll both beat on each other all day if you mean the later. And don't thaumcraft fighters have a huge advantage right now because the Quantum Suit no longer stops all fire damage? That wand of fire and wand of lightning spam is no fun.
 

Yuka

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Jul 29, 2019
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No, because I already flat-out disabled IC2 and anything related to it since my previous build.
I don't know, never really liked it.

To me, it seems like it has too much unnecessary/ useless stuff and too many OP things, plus seems too "unnatural," yes I know they're machines, they're not supposed to be natural, but still, all of it seems way out of place on Minecraft in general.

Not to mention a lot of pointlessly complicated things that could easily

I rather use things like Cogs of The Machine, which is nice, simple, get the job done and its well balanced.
Don't need to make this to make that to make that other thing, to make this machine that can build that machine that can generate power to make a machine that can build a suitable source of power to create a machine that's able to make the parts to build that other machine that can build another source of energy for that machine that can build the machine that can finally do something useful.

All those "extra resources" you can get from those machines end up drained in the same machines, I feel if I saved up all the material I needed to make that "end game" stuff, I could have made end-game stuff for all other mods in the pack and had some to spare...

Plus as jnads mentioned above, if you get that stuff, you've basically playing in creative mode, at that point I'd rather just play in creative mode than pretend I'm playing survival anymore.
 

KirinDave

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Plus as jnads mentioned above, if you get that stuff, you've basically playing in creative mode, at that point I'd rather just play in creative mode than pretend I'm playing survival anymore.
I dunno about that. The scope of your resources dictates the scope of your builds. See DW20's current workshop build on his Season 4 SMP series; they're still constrained for resources even as they build this epic mystcraft-derived workshop at the end of the universe. They're still finding new ways to make perpetual motion machines so that they live in some kind of endless bio-Shangrila.
 

raiju

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Jul 29, 2019
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A good enchant set on a wand of excavation blows away most uses for the mining laser. I've never really seen a point to scatter or explosive modes.
???? Most useful settings for a mining laser are horizontal, long range, scatter, and explosive. You might as well use a drill, vajra, or something else for doing anything the other modes do (super heat being as useless 99% of the time as a fiery pick)

Explosive is great for any nether and surface work, scatter is unbeatable for underground searching for 1-2 specific ores (gregtech argument, but rubies for chrome). I don't like to use it generally as it can cause a bit of lag and it can be inconvenient - you cannot in any way deny the speed though. The amount of miners/quarries/bores you would need to match it for the item you need would be absolutely ludicrous. Your practically get through a chunk in 5 seconds.

Horizontal is just pure convenience and long range is a general purpose shot with nice damage too.
 

Abdiel

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Oh look, this argument again!

"My X is better than your Y because it does this arbitrarily chosen task better! Therefore it is superior in every regard!"
"No, my Y is better than your X because it does this other arbitrarily chosen task better! Therefore X sucks and is useless!"
"But here is how you can replace Y by using A, B, C, D, and E! So Y is not needed at all!"
"But, X ruins my enjoyment of the game! I win, X is therefore crap and should be removed from the modpack!"
 
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Yuka

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Your practically get through a chunk in 5 seconds.
Exactly my point.
This plus a suit that negates all damage, stops the need for manually eating food, allows you to jump extremely high, and negate all fall damage = I'll just play creative mode.
 

KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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???? Most useful settings for a mining laser are horizontal, long range
Horizontal is great, it's what I use for mining. Long range is only good for grabbing glowstone before you can fly, as far as I can tell. And the DW20 has other better long-range options.

, scatter, and explosive. You might as well use a drill, vajra, or something else for doing anything the other modes do (super heat being as useless 99% of the time as a fiery pick)

Explosive is great for any nether and surface work, scatter is unbeatable for underground searching for 1-2 specific ores (gregtech argument, but rubies for chrome). I don't like to use it generally as it can cause a bit of lag and it can be inconvenient - you cannot in any way deny the speed though.
I just think it's way way way edge case and even then not very good as opposed to just firing up a quarry and giving it 50mj/t. It'll find what you're looking for.

The amount of miners/quarries/bores you would need to match it for the item you need would be absolutely ludicrous. Your practically get through a chunk in 5 seconds.
Maybe I'd have to see it in action. But I'd be worried about accidentally breaking these super-rare gems without fortune if I was that desperate for them. Whereas the Wand of Excavation with good enchants can be giving increased returns and run so fast it's usually too fast.
 

Omicron

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GregTech is the main reason I play Mindcrack instead of the Direwolf pack.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Industrialcraft, per se; just because various different mods insit on one-upping each other with yet more unreasonable amounts of yield increase and other such things doesn't mean that an existing mod automatically becomes bad, or that it should be required to somehow "defend" itself by one-upping its contenders in return. Too much of a good thing most definitely can be bad.

Look at Thermal Expansion - it began as exactly that kind of thing, just another mod that one-upped IC2 with a better macerator, Buildcraft with better energy pipes, and so on. I was very glad to see King Lemming and team CoFH get a firmer grip on the vision they were following, and nowadays TE is an invaluable mod not because it does the same things better (as most of the sore points were brought in line), but because it does interesting things that other mods don't do, and in a very cool manner to boot.

Where does that leave IC2? Much on the same level, really. It still does interesting things that you don't find in other mods. It allows me to build well-balanced teleporters so I don't have to rely on super-broken mods like Portalgun and Mystcraft for fast travel. I can defend my base with tesla coils, not because it is the cheapest option but because it is one of the coolest. It allows me to spend days agonizing over a good reactor design, the game within the game. It gives me power tools and a freaking laser rifle and a lightsaber and a cheap yet relatively limited, mid-game personal flight option. It gives me a mutable form of matter than can fill my resource shortages, no matter what they might be. It gives me an energy network that's still less aggravating to manage than Buildcraft's, even after all that TE did to level the playing field. And it still makes the strongest armor in the game, especially against the Wither, which is fast becoming a requirement for progress in multiple mods.

And it allows me to play GregTech. I have come to enjoy this mod for more than I thought I would, based on the initial glimpses of the very unfinished version in Beta Pack A. It has grown and changed more than any other mod since then, and nowadays I don't want to miss the way it ties all those separate mods together into a coherent whole. Configured properly, it gives you a reason to run the IC2 and Buildcraft worlds side by side at the same time for maximum efficiency. It makes sure that all machines output the same types of dusts and ingots so they will stack properly in your chests and can be used for all recipes. It gives purpose to all of Redpower's useless worldgen (yes, even nikolite), fixes a ton of exploits, gives a challenge to those who desire it (and lets those who don't dial the challenges back by a large amount), gives you building projects so ridiculous that even multiplayer servers full of infinite energy loops will take weeks to tackle them; and most of all, it gives you a single, unified and scaling multi-mod tech tree to follow from the first TE pulverizer you plop down all the way to a massive Redpower-managed factory put together like a puzzle from at least six different mods that were all developed independently from each other.
 
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KirinDave

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Oh look, this argument again!

"My X is better than your Y because it does this arbitrarily chosen task better! Therefore it is superior in every regard!"
"No, my Y is better than your X because it does this other arbitrarily chosen task better! Therefore X sucks and is useless!"
"But here is how you can replace Y by using A, B, C, D, and E! So Y is not needed at all!"
"But, X ruins my enjoyment of the game! I win, X is therefore crap and should be removed from the modpack!"
Look dude, the question is not, "Is IC2 awesome?" It is awesome. Mad props to IC2 etc etc. It's more about the specific set of mods put together for this specific modpack. If we were talking about Mindcrack, this wouldn't even be a conversation. Of course, Mindcrack people decide to comment from that perspective despite specifically being told what the conversation was in the title... :(

But I guess I forgot that having nuanced opinions is all but impossible on this forum. What people want to argue about is Gregtech vs. not Gregtech, or IC2 vs TE game balance.
 
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raiju

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Jul 29, 2019
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Maybe I'd have to see it in action. But I'd be worried about accidentally breaking these super-rare ores without fortune if I was that desperate for them. Whereas the Wand of Excavation with good enchants can be giving increased returns and run so fast it's usually too fast.
It's annoying when it happens but it still doesn't compare - I will continue with the gregtech rubies analogy just because it's an example of something where you need ungodly amounts (500+) of chrome, which is 9 rubies each leading you to 4500 rubies. Now on my next server I will never be using rubies for anything this, but previously we had used rubies for energy crystals in crafts occasionally.. Still after about 20 quarries we didn't even have 25% of the amount needed, including significant personal mining by myself in both overworld and twilight forest.

So I got desperate for things to go faster. I wanted to build this fusion reactor in a week not over a month, so every night I logged on for 30 mins-1 hour, some days longer and would go blast deserts (extra rubies from GT) with the mining laser. I found in a 10 minute trip I could usually get near 100 rubies post processing, along with a few other goodies I was interested in.

Note: I also used a LOT of UU on rubies, but it was an insignificant amount overall (7 uu for 2 rubies = 31.5 uu per chrome, also known as 504 million eu per chrome on default hard settings).

I'd say 70%~ of my rubies came from desert wrecking with mining laser + a silk touch (I would grind them as I was going for dust anyway - but fortune would have similar effect), and took 4 days or so or approx 6 hours. I had a gravichest which sped this up significantly as well.
 

KirinDave

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I'd say 70%~ of my rubies came from desert wrecking with mining laser + a silk touch (I would grind them as I was going for dust anyway - but fortune would have similar effect), and took 4 days or so or approx 6 hours. I had a gravichest which sped this up significantly as well.
Okay but... Direwolf20 pack. And I still suggest you'd be better off with a quarry for that. Or an Arcane bore.
 

Guswut

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Okay but... Direwolf20 pack. And I still suggest you'd be better off with a quarry for that. Or an Arcane bore.
I would agree that it would be easier to just quarry large strips of desert as opposed to trying to find them manually. It is what I've been doing, and I've got so many damn rubies that I should have enough chrome to last me a while longer.

But, that aside, ender dragon murder. I cannot think of a better way to do it, really. We don't have any good ranged weapons besides it, and scatter mode gives you a almost never miss setting if you are close enough. It also bounces the dragon, which you can use to keep it moving back and forth.

I was going to try and kill the ender dragon like that to keep all of the energy crystals I could, but someone decided to kill the ender dragon before I could get around to doing that, sadly.
 

benben500

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Personally, I prefer using UE(and its addons) and TE stuff rather than IC2 machines.
The textures, functionality in automation, and limitations makes them a better experience.
My only problem is Extrabees' use of IC2 such as the honey-crystal batteries and stuff like that.
Hopefully compatibility with MJ's and UE electricity will be added later.
 

KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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But, that aside, ender dragon murder. I cannot think of a better way to do it, really. We don't have any good ranged weapons besides it, and scatter mode gives you a almost never miss setting if you are close enough. It also bounces the dragon, which you can use to keep it moving back and forth.
Yeah I can see that. But we haven't even talked about Xeno's Reliquary yet. :)
 

noskk

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Jul 29, 2019
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Disabling IC2 (and add-ons)? ehehe, NO.. I still prefer my grav suit+quamtums than modular powersuit altogether..

off topic @raiju, why didn't you use the uum->redstone->ruby->chrome; it's only 16 uum/chrome..
 

raiju

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Okay but... Direwolf20 pack. And I still suggest you'd be better off with a quarry for that. Or an Arcane bore.
Have you never built something that big because you wanted to? If you don't the argument of heavy duty tools is sort of irrelevant to you anyway so...

The same can apply to any resource for building large things. Chrome was just a great example because it is definable and anyone who can't comprehend it in their head can look it all up and understand exactly what was going on.

@Guswut deserts were quarried 3-6 63x63 at a time at 50 mj each. The ruby income was insignificant.

If you ever want diamonds, emeralds, uranium, etc. the same could apply. If you are going for more common materials then quarrying will be more reasonable in general.