IC2 is slowly dying out ?

[power crystals]

I guess, there will be more OP discussions about that

But it looks nice! Keep up a good work!

It already takes 75kMJ (BC MJ) per ore, which iirc makes it more expensive than a massfab for less returns (but probably cheaper than the GT one). You actually can't adjust the cost right now, just the precharger pulse size - this will be available by 2.6 stable.

And thanks!

 

[Poppycocks]

The only thing that never seems to get nerfed is lava; and I suspect that that is because virtually nobody uses it, comparitively speaking. I always have myself, but I've only ever seen DW20 use it once.

Bollocks, everyone and his monkeys uncle is using it - except for the big guys.

Actually, for me engineering means adhering to the KISS principle first and foremost; which in turn means that if a claw hammer (or any other generic tool) works to dismantle something, then that is more useful. Good design is as generic as possible, IMHO; because that way it is as versatile and robust as possible as well. I'd recommend reading some Buckminster Fuller, perhaps. He was very much against specialisation.

A claw wrench will make the hexagons on your bolts into circles, which'll give you problems in the long run, especially when you try to dissasemble it after it rusts in. But that's beside the point and so are you, claw wrench, monkey wrench, french wrench, whatever wrench. I just don't want to unscrew my bolts with a pickaxe.

Balance obsession happens primarily because of competition and epeen. A lot of multiplayer types tend to use games (including this one) as vicarious sources of self-worth, and deluding yourself that you have real skill with a competitive game after your competition has been nerfed into the ground, is a lot easier than actually developing said skill and using it. So there is constant, adamant paranoia to make sure that nobody has even the slightest advantage over anyone else, in terms of game mechanics.

Heh, no child is left behind. It's crazy how convulted the whole nerf/buff thing is. I'm a fairly good player, and I love a good challenge, which I expect to give me good returns for my effort, this is consistently being beaten into the ground as well as simple go-to mechanics most players use and It's really ticking me off. Balance by difficulty seems to be frowned upon as a balancing mechanic because it's either too unpopular, or super misused once someone comes up with the best way and posts a tutorial. I really wish this wouldn't happen

Also, I'd like to reply to the "nobody balances for ssp" but can't be bothered to quote. Server players are logically often the more social players(within a bell curve). More social players are more inclined to socialize on the forums as well and make for the more vocal part of the community for the very same reason.
They don't have to be in the majority to be able to make themselves heard more easily. That's all there's to it.

The lava fab and its partner the oil fab exist because they used to exist (remember, MFR/PowerConverters are really old), and I don't exactly want to make them work the same way as TE's because what would be the point? TE already does that. So instead it's a gameplay decision thing: the magma crucible is much cheaper to run (only a profit on netherrack, though) but the lava fab requires no extra work.

That said, I can understand why you might dislike the idea, which is why I let you disable the machine recipes for ones you don't want in your game.

No man, it's cool, you've already said so, you're making your mod user friendly at that is very fine by me. Don't worry, I'm not trying to chage it or you, just happened to use it as an example because being the hypocrite that I am, it was close to my mind as I am using your mod quite often and very much like most of it. (Speaking of which, could I pretty please have a filter for the top of the item router? Settable to a NOT filter? So that I can tell it which stuff CAN actually go in? That would be super sweet. Oh also, xp gets stuck on top of it... when I'm using water, haven't tested with belts... Just sayin')

I'm not one of the people that'll remove it cause they don't want poop in their meadows or dissable a machine because their little ego demands it.

I'm still confused how if there are 2 blocks that can do something with the addition of nothing but power is plausible, then a single block that automatically does the same thing with power is implausible? I'm also confused how it is plausible that cobblestone becomes liquid obsidian. It's almost like in the Minecraft universe, annealing weakens materials!!

That's the thing, it does not. It's using water and lava, just like vanilla minecraft. Heck a tiny little GUI where you could insert one cobble and a bucket, which'd melt the cobble itself and then just about its merry way would be fine by me.

But yeah, that's not even that important and is only one of the many examples I could make. The point, which I tried so laboriously to make, is that internal consistency and honest attempts at similarity to reality are surprisingly important for ... making the player feel less alienated/better. Fuck, I'd make an internet seminary about gameplay design if I had anything besides flowery writing to back my dodgy claims. It all boils down to... not shirking challenges, that's not what love is about(+1 internets for catching this fish). Planing, thinking, effort, time. Just like with everything else.

Take king leming. His mod has so incredibly much internal consistency and consistency with vanilla that it still boggles my mind. I won't even get into the details, I'll let you figure it out, but every component of every machine HAS LOGIC BEHIND IT, NOT EVEN JOKING. He had to think long and hard about it, NOT EVEN EXPECTING ANYONE TO NOTICE, expecting most players that most of those are just balancing, but it's still there and he was right, most people don't even realize, and think they only love the mod cause it's so user friendly. But trust me, that is not the case. Give it a go, think hard about the use cases for metals in the machines, take a look at the coils, where they're used, and think about it, take a look at buckets and glass, you'll figure it all out and you'll be as baffled as I am.(I really suspect that he's from the industry with several big titles behind his belt, possibly in very important roles, that man is not your run of the mill modder. Damn, I now even understand why he's making it closed source, you just don't want anyone to fuck with something so carefully done, one new recipe that doesn't follow suite and there's bad blood)

Yet very few others do that. Why?


EDIT: HOW THE HECK DO I TURN OFF THE WYSIWYG EDITOR, IT KEEPS EFFIN UP MY POSTS

 

[KirinDave]

But yeah, that's not even that important and is only one of the many examples I could make. The point, which I tried so laboriously to make, is that internal consistency and honest attempts at similarity to reality are surprisingly important for ... making the player feel less alienated/better.

I mean, I agree in principle. It's just that actually it's surprising what is NOT consistent with the minecraft universe. For example, why do we need to refuel engines ever? Coal burns forever even though wood does not. So really what we want is Star Trek (TNG, naturally) consistency, which is to say that we use big enough words and use the same words enough that everyone can say, "Alright. You have plasma. I can suspend my disbelief."

Here's your consistency by the by, the Purification Chamber needs silicon dioxide plates to deposit its semi-crystalline results onto. Unlike other processes, it observes that metallic crystallization can partially happen in the quartz rich stone of the minecraft world and so produces more ore. Since we don't have a good way to make ultra-high quality plates of SiO2, we use natures's solution: flint. The machine splits the pieces for you, helpfully. Sadly, the flint sheets then get mixed in with the output to the crushers and pulverizers so we do need to refine it a via the enrichment chamber, which is just a branded electrolysis chamber, to further refine and complete our yield.

Problem, Poppycocks?

 

[power crystals]

No man, it's cool, you've already said so, you're making your mod user friendly at that is very fine by me. Don't worry, I'm not trying to chage it or you, just happened to use it as an example because being the hypocrite that I am, it was close to my mind as I am using your mod quite often and very much like most of it. (Speaking of which, could I pretty please have a filter for the top of the item router? Settable to a NOT filter? So that I can tell it which stuff CAN actually go in? That would be super sweet. Oh also, xp gets stuck on top of it... when I'm using water, haven't tested with belts... Just sayin')

I'm not one of the people that'll remove it cause they don't want poop in their meadows or dissable a machine because their little ego demands it.

Nah it's fine - I'm mostly responding for the sake of the spectators. I'm pretty sure that my fans by now know how I operate, but there's a lot of people who might not.

Filtering item router inputs would be... weird, but how about a "disallow unmapped items" button in the GUI? That'd do basically the same thing and much simpler to use. And XP orbs getting stuck is probably unfixable without some really weird hacks if you use water as a transit system.

 

[Poppycocks]

Nah it's fine - I'm mostly responding for the sake of the spectators. I'm pretty sure that my fans by now know how I operate, but there's a lot of people who might not.

Filtering item router inputs would be... weird, but how about a "disallow unmapped items" button in the GUI? That'd do basically the same thing and much simpler to use. And XP orbs getting stuck is probably unfixable without some really weird hacks if you use water as a transit system.

Man that would be sweet.... man. Yes, please. Also, good thinking.

I mean, I agree in principle. It's just that actually it's surprising what is NOT consistent with the minecraft universe. For example, why do we need to refuel engines ever? Coal burns forever even though wood does not. So really what we want is Star Trek (TNG, naturally) consistency, which is to say that we use big enough words and use the same words enough that everyone can say, "Alright. You have plasma. I can suspend my disbelief."

Here's your consistency by the by, the Purification Chamber needs silicon dioxide plates to deposit its semi-crystalline results onto. Unlike other processes, it observes that metallic crystallization can partially happen in the quartz rich stone of the minecraft world and so produces more ore. Since we don't have a good way to make ultra-high quality plates of SiO2, we use natures's solution: flint. The machine splits the pieces for you, helpfully. Sadly, the flint sheets then get mixed in with the output to the crushers and pulverizers so we do need to refine it a via the enrichment chamber, which is just a branded electrolysis chamber, to further refine and complete our yield.

Problem, Poppycocks?

Yeah well, sufficiently not understood science is the same as magic. However a wizzard did it does not always work. Hence my beef with the enrichment chamber. The problem with coal is that minecraft is no longer run by the only man in the company who understand game design.

Also, that's stupid.

 

[PonyKuu]

It already takes 75kMJ (BC MJ) per ore, which iirc makes it more expensive than a massfab for less returns (but probably cheaper than the GT one). You actually can't adjust the cost right now, just the precharger pulse size - this will be available by 2.6 stable.

And thanks!

Oh, that's... quite a lot ^_^

Also, I 'd like to ask do your machines support UE power? Or maybe that's planned? I can't remember ._.

 

[power crystals]

Also, I 'd like to ask do your machines support UE power? Or maybe that's planned? I can't remember ._.

They do, in fact. Have since... 2.3? Assuming UE didn't randomly break their API without telling me again.

 

[KirinDave]

They do, in fact. Have since... 2.3? Assuming UE didn't randomly break their API without telling me again.

Nope. You're good. You're actually one of the few mods outside the UE cabal that actually uses rational values for UE power.

 

[PonyKuu]

They do, in fact. Have since... 2.3? Assuming UE didn't randomly break their API without telling me again.

I now agree thar PowerCrystals is OP ^_^
Awesome! One more useful mod that can run on UE natively!

 

[Petrus]

Nope. You're good. You're actually one of the few mods outside the UE cabal that actually uses rational values for UE power.

Yep. I enjoyed Power Converters as well. I mostly stopped using it once I figured out that Mekanism's own energy cubes work as adapters; but they were still good. <3

 

[jumpfight5]

I think if RichardG and the IC2 dev team were on the FTB forums, we'd like IC2 a lot more and wouldn't question if it's alive or not.

I was going to add an example-comparison for TE and PC's mods, but...they keep adding new content that's awesome
But I can honestly say (and I assume many of you will agree with me) that the fact that King Lemming, Powercrystals, and MachineMuse are on the forums and listening to us and answering questions and doing things based on what we think, we like them (and their mods) more. Simple as that.

 

[RedBoss]

I only understand about 30% of the convo right now, but keep it going

 

[Hoff]

I think if RichardG and the IC2 dev team were on the FTB forums, we'd like IC2 a lot more and wouldn't question if it's alive or not.

I was going to add an example-comparison for TE and PC's mods, but...they keep adding new content that's awesome
But I can honestly say (and I assume many of you will agree with me) that the fact that King Lemming, Powercrystals, and MachineMuse are on the forums and listening to us and answering questions and doing things based on what we think, we like them (and their mods) more. Simple as that.

We'd certainly like them more as people but like their mods I'm not so sure. I personally don't like/use TE for the most part but I have nothing but respect for Lemming and awe for his coding ability. PC I can definitely say I like him as a person more but him being here talking about his mod just gives me an excuse to fanboy over it not actually like it more. This may of course not be true for everyone but it is for me at least.

 

[jumpfight5]

We'd certainly like them more as people but like their mods I'm not so sure. I personally don't like/use TE for the most part but I have nothing but respect for Lemming and awe for his coding ability. PC I can definitely say I like him as a person more but him being here talking about his mod just gives me an excuse to fanboy over it not actually like it more. This may of course not be true for everyone but it is for me at least.

I'll use Powercrystals as an example.
He makes a mod, comes to these forums, you all may not like it. But, one time after another, he will rise to the occasion and add things to the mod that we suggested. Rednet's a bad example, because I don't think he made it purely to replace RP2, but during that whole craze he provided a solution people love and even prefer. There's the white and black bricks that people love, too. And if you ever have a problem? It's extremely easy to ask him for help. I know there are several other examples, but I'm not so up to date on minecraft...due to my technological issues
I think there was one in this thread. Was it Dave who asked for some kind of filter thing on one of his machines?
MachineMuse says she is willing to make anything, provided someone makes the textures. That's pretty awesome.
And KingLemming? He'll listen to whatever people have to say. Have you noticed his impressive likes/post ratio?

 

[Hoff]

I'll use Powercrystals as an example.
He makes a mod, comes to these forums, you all may not like it. But, one time after another, he will rise to the occasion and add things to the mod that we suggested. Rednet's a bad example, because I don't think he made it purely to replace RP2, but during that whole craze he provided a solution people love and even prefer. There's the white and black bricks that people love, too. And if you ever have a problem? It's extremely easy to ask him for help. I know there are several other examples, but I'm not so up to date on minecraft...due to my technological issues
I think there was one in this thread. Was it Dave who asked for some kind of filter thing on one of his machines?
MachineMuse says she is willing to make anything, provided someone makes the textures. That's pretty awesome.
And KingLemming? He'll listen to whatever people have to say. Have you noticed his impressive likes/post ratio?

Again all are, to me, examples of what make them great people and modders. It does not however mean I will be more or less inclined to their mods.

 

[power crystals]

We'd certainly like them more as people but like their mods I'm not so sure. I personally don't like/use TE for the most part but I have nothing but respect for Lemming and awe for his coding ability. PC I can definitely say I like him as a person more but him being here talking about his mod just gives me an excuse to fanboy over it not actually like it more. This may of course not be true for everyone but it is for me at least.

If you really want to get me to never shut up, come hang out in IRC sometime. Plus then you can see me swear at everything being broken all the time and watch Emy and I trip over each other's commits because we have zero coordination of any kind. It's fun.

 

[Hoff]

If you really want to get me to never shut up, come hang out in IRC sometime. Plus then you can see me swear at everything being broken all the time and watch Emy and I trip over each other's commits because we have zero coordination of any kind. It's fun.

Sounds like when I was coding a mod for counter strike. Oh the number of times we wrote over each others changes because we didn't pay attention to the other one making changes.

 

[jumpfight5]

Again all are, to me, examples of what make them great people and modders. It does not however mean I will be more or less inclined to their mods.

Yea I get what your saying, but I'd like to impose my views on you as the only correct and true ones; in contrast, you're completely wrong and I guess I'll have to break it down for you

If you get a say in what they add, then you like it, and if they keep doing it, you'll like the mod in general

But of course, you could not like your own ideas, because the ideas you do like are being made in a super-secret mod that's going to come out for 1.6 and we'll all be super surprised.
Except me, of course, but that's because I see into the future.

 

[wolfsilver00]

I don't tihink it's dying. I think Ic2 transcended other mods and stopped being a mod to start being a base. Think about minecraft, less than half the ppl that does now, would play it if it wasn't for mods.. That means minecraft is dying? Nope.. that means minecraft is the base of something else.. A lot of mods use Ic to come to life, and thats something awesome, i would be really proud if i could make a mod that great that ppl uses it to create their own stuff.. Same thing goes for BC (even if it's still adding things time to time), Ic, Bc and minecraft are all bases and they will not die if the mods that uses them are still alive.

 

[Bigglesworth]

Its been 20 pages.

Is IC2 dead yet?