I like my old IC2

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KirinDave

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Jul 29, 2019
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The new IC2 doesn't seem to be suited for most people. Novelty may by noble but taste comes before novelty.
I'm not sure what value people derived from the old IC2. Its power system was preposterous and awkward. Its early game was terrible. It had no late game, except perhaps crops.

I think the taste here is for the familiar. A taste I can neither sympathize with nor entirely understand. Old IC2 was similarly torturous. This new version is actually less so, but the people pontificating here seem slow to embrace and understand the changes and what they really mean.
 
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Hoff

Tech Support
Oct 30, 2012
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I'm not sure what value people derived from the old IC2. Its power system was preposterous and awkward. Its early game was terrible. It had no late game, except perhaps crops.

I think the taste here is for the familiar. A taste I can neither sympathize with nor entirely understand. Old IC2 was similarly torturous. This new version is actually less so, but the people pontificating here seem slow to embrace and understand the changes and what they really mean.
Preposterous certainly but far from awkward, at least in my opinion. Once you grasped the difference in EU packet size and EU per tick(Which is extremely simple) it became exceedingly easy. It made early game non-existent, virtually anyway. You could reach it's mid game(Final tier of stuff really) in a day. While for some this may not be appealing for some it is.

Even on the note of simply preferring familiarity it makes no difference. It is of no detriment to anyone, the person preferring it included, to simply prefer something they understand. Enjoying monotony is not necessarily a bad thing. It's also not possible for them to embrace the changes if they are not changes which suit the type of gaming they prefer.
 

Luke Gevaerts

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Jul 29, 2019
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I'm not sure what value people derived from the old IC2. Its power system was preposterous and awkward. Its early game was terrible. It had no late game, except perhaps crops.

I think the taste here is for the familiar. A taste I can neither sympathize with nor entirely understand. Old IC2 was similarly torturous. This new version is actually less so, but the people pontificating here seem slow to embrace and understand the changes and what they really mean.
It's not about novelty or taste; it's about obsoletion. IC2exp may have improved upon IC2 - but has it improved upon any of the other technology mods that have become household names?
 

1arthurf

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Jul 29, 2019
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I agree but you might just have to make the best of it. I did the same thing you did with dartcraft and extra utilities and I found myself being left behind and until I learned to accept them I was stuck in past.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Dec 8, 2012
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I'm not sure what value people derived from the old IC2. Its power system was preposterous and awkward. Its early game was terrible. It had no late game, except perhaps crops.

I think the taste here is for the familiar. A taste I can neither sympathize with nor entirely understand. Old IC2 was similarly torturous. This new version is actually less so, but the people pontificating here seem slow to embrace and understand the changes and what they really mean.
I would respectfully disagree that the new version is less torturous. If anything, I consider it the polar opposite.

* Impossible to transmit large quantities of power. If it's more than 2048 EU/t... you aren't doing it. Period. If it is more than 1024, you are spending a diamond per block to transmit it. And if you want to break it down, it will take TONS of wires independently snaking around. In effect, the central power plant concept is dead.

* The aforementioned problems with transmission of high amounts of EU also destroy any buff the nuclear engineering section got. Yes, nuclear reactors are way more cool now. Unfortunately, you can't take advantage of it because the wiring is so lolfail.

* Hammers and shears. Let's talk about these for a moment. 80 durability on a tool you need to progress is asinine. It's a pure resource sink to advance to the next tier, with a completely worthless tool sitting around gathering dust once you have the machine that can do it for you automatically. As long as you are intelligent about keeping a supply of plates and wires on hand, the time it takes to craft is meaningless, you can have it running while you are off doing something else. I will grant innovativeness here, but I'm disappointed by the sheer punitive measures taken by the new system.

* As a result of lolfail wiring and redonkulous EU/t demands from your basic machine setups (caused in part by requiring over twice as many machines in operation to do the same task), it becomes nearly impossible to set up an 'early game' manufactorum. This makes the early game strictly worse than previous.

* Also a part of the previous problem is EU generation in the early to mid game is nerfed, transmission of any decent amount of power is similarly nerfed, and you don't get any sort of decent power generation until you hit Nuclear (which runs into the previous problem about not being able to transmit it). I mean sure, you could just spam GeoGens again, although they got hit with an admittedly well-deserved nerf bat, but setting up that sort of automation is well beyond the 'early game'. In other words, except for nuclear, all they did to energy generation was swing a nerf bat at it while simultaneously multiplying the power requirements of your basic infrastructure.
 

SteveTech

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Jul 29, 2019
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You can fit 4 insulated wires in a 2x2 space using 2 painters, so you can move 8192 eu/t down a 2x2 tunnel. Not too shabby and only requires rubber, iron, wool, and some dye.

The hammer and shears aren't much a of a resource sink, you only need a couple to build the machines you need to get started and obsolete them. Sure you spend 5 iron on a hammer but that's practically nothing.
 
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ShneekeyTheLost

Too Much Free Time
Dec 8, 2012
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Lost as always
You can fit 4 insulated wires in a 2x2 space using 2 painters, so you can move 8192 eu/t down a 2x2 tunnel. Not too shabby and only requires rubber, iron diamonds, wool glass, and some dye.
FIFY. Glass Fibre Cable requires 3 diamonds for three pieces of cable. What you are talking about will cost you four diamonds per segment.

Oh, then let's talk about actually USING that. To break it down to 128 EU/t which most machines can use (or at least be upgraded to use without too many transformer upgrades), you're going to have to break it down to 512, then down to 128. When you break it down to 512, you are talking about four transformers. Each of which now has four cables coming out of it. Assuming your 2 x 2 for your transformers, you are looking at at a 6 x 6 radius. Then to break it down to 128, you need to have sixteen transformers, each one with four lines, or a total of 64 independent lines snaking all over the place.

The hammer and shears aren't much a of a resource sink, you only need a couple to build the machines you need to get started and obsolete them. Sure you spend 5 iron on a hammer but that's practically nothing.
It's still an early-stage resource bleed. And that is all it is... a resource bleed.
 

Bibble

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Jul 29, 2019
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Having played around with the new stuff for a world, there are some bits that I like, and some that I don't. The new processing cycles aren't too bad. The centrifuge does seem to be becoming the ubiquitous machine, though. Not sure whether I like that or not. Similarly, the canning machine has given purpose to something that basically didn't have any before.

Early-game power gen is as it has always been, reliant on solid fuels, patience and baby-sitting. In this respect, I've always judged it in relation to vanilla mechanics, and found it pleasant. the cross-mod support with the semi-fluids is a nice addition, too, meaning that there's finally a way to use the masses of fuel that is found lying around.

UUM is definitely improves for the better. The scanning process is a little slow, and some of the machines are a little arbitrary about their power requirements (and not accepting upgrades), but the process is better than it was, in my opinion.

I'll admit that I'm still not liking the explosive nature of power failures, particularly as there's not always a ready way of working out how much will be going through the line, or how much the machine can take. For the most part, I have a habit of cheating stuff back in if it exploded when I didn't think it should have.

The power transmission thing may be an issue, but mainly caused by the current cabling basically being somewhere between domestic and industrial, rather than intended for long-distance. Could be interesting to see something like a multi-phase system implemented, requiring multiple cables to carry large amounts of power.

Overall, the changes are for the better, and I had fun playing with them, but that's just my viewpoint.
 

HangingLotus

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Jul 29, 2019
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i agree with shneeky in regards to resource use with ic2. that is why i have been moving away from ic2 and towards something like mekanism. ic2 has become an exercise in busy work.
 
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Zexks

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Jul 29, 2019
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I like the new IC2. The plates feel like a nice replacement to refined iron, forcing either an iron tax or an energy tax. Before you had to smelt for refined iron and manually craft wires, now you can choose your tax (resources vs energy), and enable automated wire production before the likes of AE and a decent Logistics Pipes network. The only thing really missing is solid documentation on the new power system, and a good way to transmit large amounts of power. I think they should take advantage of the "shock" mechanic around high voltage, and create a wire that can transfer greater than 1024 EU over long distance without loss, but that applied a LOT of damage to anyone within say 4 or 5 blocks of the wire, and possibly start fires to any flammable blocks, to keep people from using it as a standard wall wire. Storage and transmission of power seem to be their big struggling point right now. I could really use a revamp of the crops side as well, but that can come later.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Dec 8, 2012
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Crops are perfect. They should be their own mod.
The more I think about this, the more I find myself agreeing with this statement.

Crops always felt like a tacked-on system that was almost completely unrelated to IC2. I think there are a lot of good ideas here, however, and a part of me is trying to work up the nerve to see if I could do a similar system of cropping that would be somewhat more... intuitive. Then set up a means of automation (although why bother when I could just hook into MFR and let the Harvesters do the job).
 

Hoff

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Oct 30, 2012
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The more I think about this, the more I find myself agreeing with this statement.

Crops always felt like a tacked-on system that was almost completely unrelated to IC2. I think there are a lot of good ideas here, however, and a part of me is trying to work up the nerve to see if I could do a similar system of cropping that would be somewhat more... intuitive. Then set up a means of automation (although why bother when I could just hook into MFR and let the Harvesters do the job).
You actually wouldn't even need to hook into MFR as long as you set the proper harvestable flag when they are fully grown like it currently works with crops. The one thing I will grant greg is the expansion(Purely in types of crops despite how unimaginative they are) to crops he has done. I would love to see Binnie take the mod idea and roll with it.
 

Yusunoha

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Jul 29, 2019
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The more I think about this, the more I find myself agreeing with this statement.

Crops always felt like a tacked-on system that was almost completely unrelated to IC2. I think there are a lot of good ideas here, however, and a part of me is trying to work up the nerve to see if I could do a similar system of cropping that would be somewhat more... intuitive. Then set up a means of automation (although why bother when I could just hook into MFR and let the Harvesters do the job).
it's basically just something they added on a whim I guess, they even introduced it as something "endgame"
you can tell me horses are purple and can fly and I may believe you, but crops being endgame? really?
they're one of the first things I make from IC2 and one of the things I will keep using throughout the whole world progress...

I've often hoped they'd add more onto the crops system, or a mod that'd finally pick the system up and add onto it, but sadly it never happened.
if there would be a mod who'd do this, I'd be using it right away IF there's actually some sense in the crossbreeding.
some people tell me there's actually a system in crossbreeding crops, but to me it just looks like pure luck