Two gets me pure-bred pairs just about every time. The only time it doesn't is with species that have multiple resulting mutations, with those I sometimes get a different mutation on each side. I don't think adding more mutation chance would fix that though.
I did bee math! (Now with more usability!)
- Thread starter Milaha
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Two gets me pure-bred pairs just about every time. The only time it doesn't is with species that have multiple resulting mutations, with those I sometimes get a different mutation on each side. I don't think adding more mutation chance would fix that though.
Spreadsheet updated to incorporate the data collection done by the wiki team. Now MUCH easier to use. Make sure to thank MilConDoin and the rest of the wiki team for their awesome work.
EDIT: there are a fair few using the spreadsheet at the moment, feel free to use the ability to make a copy in your own google docs to use your own personal one that no one else can change. (this will also get rid of the ugly grey lines and let you edit anything else you like).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnkWNB3cVIdJdHVzSUVRQnB5STMzT3Y0MGFFVEZka0E
EDIT: there are a fair few using the spreadsheet at the moment, feel free to use the ability to make a copy in your own google docs to use your own personal one that no one else can change. (this will also get rid of the ugly grey lines and let you edit anything else you like).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnkWNB3cVIdJdHVzSUVRQnB5STMzT3Y0MGFFVEZka0E
This is a really useful little tool, but I'm having some trouble with the species lookup on the spreadsheet. It seems that the species names on the Bee List all have leading spaces so to get the products to show up they have to be entered the same way on the main page. i.e. entering "Distilled Bee" gives an error but entering " Distilled Bee" works.
This is correct, and I am keeping it that way since that is how the wiki team gave it to me (they did not give one table, but a seperate table for each product, which I then combine into one). I could work around this, but I opted to leave it as it did not affect use. The reason you had a problem is that some "kind" person decided to remove the data validation and vandalize the sheet (since the data validation is on the cell you need to edit I can not prevent this). Otherwise as soon as you started typing it would have filtered down to the options that fit, and automatically corrected it to the appropriate entry. I fixed the data validation, you should be good now. If this happens again I will work around it so that it does not need the leading space, and put a warning in case it gets stripped again.
Quick question, then again I'm kind of dense. What type of frames do you use? it doesn't specify. it just says "two frames" but of what type? just impregnated?
Any of the basic production boosters: untreated, impregnated, or proven. Since they all give the same production boost (only difference is how long they last), generally people just use untreated in an automated setting. Sengir has recently contemplated changing this though.
I used my usual DPL query with the icon in front, separated by a space from the name. If you want, I can re-generate the list without the icon and space.
Edit: Here it is: http://mc.nessirojgaming.eu/bees/index.php?title=User:MilConDoin/production2
Thanks. It wasn't a big deal at all, and no one would have even noticed if someone hadn't vandalized the spreadsheet.
So I just got back home and found that (again) people felt the need to change the sheet, this time they added unlocked rows at the bottom and entered information that they thought would help down there. Unfortunately the information was false. If you feel that something is not clear, please post here so that I can help or add accurate information clarifying things to the spreadsheet. If the spreadsheet gets changed again I will be forced to lock down the whole thing and people will need to make personal copies. This means everyone would need a google account and it would get in the way of the usefulness. Please do not force me to do this.
Something is strange with your sheet. Cells E13:F17 (protected cells) try to interpret cell A8 as a number, but this cell contains the lifespan of the bee as a name. I think they wanted to use B8 instead.
Fixed, Someone used cut and paste between those cells which made the protected cell automatically adjust. The sheet is now fully locked, people will need to make a copy to use it. My web dev skills are insufficient to make this into a proper web page, and I really do not want to have to fix it twice a day.
Ah, good. In the interest of keeping this as an accurate and up to date resource can we count on you? Although I don't think it changes all that often...
Some questions, about bees in general and about the sheet (which is AWESOME btw)...
Sheet:
I'm interested in determining how much a given bee produces in an alveary without any frames, in other words, what the maximum maintenance free produce of a given bee is. When I modify the Frame Housings field, it changes the amount of product per lifespan (which makes sense but there's no indication of _what_ frame it is using). However, when I set it to zero, for "no frames", it makes "Healing Frames for Max Life" negative (?!) and there's validation on the Frame Housings that complains. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a bug? Does your sheet produce numbers for alvearies or apiaries?
Bees:
Simple math questions --
1) Alveary vs Apiary, the way I understand it, the apiary works like a debuff for the bees, slowing them down to 10% or whatever else modified by inserted frames, is this correct?
2) How does "base chance" on a produced comb work? I understand each bee cycle is 550 ticks (27.5 seconds), is that a chance of producing per cycle?
For example, if a bee is normal speed and lifetime (1.0 multiplier and 40 cycles), and the comb base chance is 10%, like my distilled bees, then every cycle they have a 10% chance of producing one comb, and over their lifetime, on average, they'll produce 40 * 10% or 4 combs without any frames. Is this correct?
3) Do the base chance items have a chance of producing one or two per cycle, or are they treated differently than speciality products?
Thanks.
Sheet:
I'm interested in determining how much a given bee produces in an alveary without any frames, in other words, what the maximum maintenance free produce of a given bee is. When I modify the Frame Housings field, it changes the amount of product per lifespan (which makes sense but there's no indication of _what_ frame it is using). However, when I set it to zero, for "no frames", it makes "Healing Frames for Max Life" negative (?!) and there's validation on the Frame Housings that complains. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a bug? Does your sheet produce numbers for alvearies or apiaries?
Bees:
Simple math questions --
1) Alveary vs Apiary, the way I understand it, the apiary works like a debuff for the bees, slowing them down to 10% or whatever else modified by inserted frames, is this correct?
2) How does "base chance" on a produced comb work? I understand each bee cycle is 550 ticks (27.5 seconds), is that a chance of producing per cycle?
For example, if a bee is normal speed and lifetime (1.0 multiplier and 40 cycles), and the comb base chance is 10%, like my distilled bees, then every cycle they have a 10% chance of producing one comb, and over their lifetime, on average, they'll produce 40 * 10% or 4 combs without any frames. Is this correct?
3) Do the base chance items have a chance of producing one or two per cycle, or are they treated differently than speciality products?
Thanks.
Well the sheet was created with optimizing production (and lifespan) in mind, not to simply be a one-stop shop for everything bee stats, if you have no frame housings available, by definition you are not optimizing and thus it falls outside the purpose of the sheet. The ideal frame for production is the basic forestry frame (untreated, impregnated, proven), and this information is indicated in the notes in a few places (many fields have mouse over notes to help explain them). The base chance is the chance for a normal speed bee in an unframed alveary (which has a 1x mult) to produce one of that item each bee cycle. With products (not specialties) there is a 2nd chance at 1/2 that %. The "your chance" field accounts for the multiplier from the bees speed, and is what you should use if you want to figure out how much your bee will produce.
Can't help you with the sheet, I just use the base formulas and compute everything on my own. But for the other questions:
Absolutely correct, an apiary without frames will produce exactly 10% of an alveary without frames in the same time span on average (or put another way: it takes on average 10 times longer to produce a comb on average, or yet another way: Each cycle the chance is only one tenth to get a comb compared to the alveary)
Kind of. Each bee attempts to produce its products and specialties once each cycle (550 ticks). However, the base chance does not give the final chance that a product is produced, but can be changed by various factors (e.g. in an apiary multiply chance by 0.1 (the 10% from ealier, alvearies have a multiplier of 1.0), for fastest bees multiply the chance by 1.7 (normal bees have a multiplier of 1.0), frames can alter the chance as well (e.g. time 2.0 for each untreated/impregnated/proven frame)). Obviously, the final production chance is capped at 100%. So, put another way: The base chance gives the chance of a bee with normal speed to produce a product in an alveary without frames.
There is one more execption for normal products (in contrast to specialties): Here, the bee can produce to products of this kind per cycle (actually once the product of its primary species, once of its secondary species), the second product uses half the base chance, but all other factors are computed the same...
What do you mean by "base chance items". Every normal product and every specialty have a base chance, however, normal products may be produced twice each cycle (the second one with half the base chance), while specialties will only be produced once at most each cycle.
Hope this helps.
Absolutely correct, an apiary without frames will produce exactly 10% of an alveary without frames in the same time span on average (or put another way: it takes on average 10 times longer to produce a comb on average, or yet another way: Each cycle the chance is only one tenth to get a comb compared to the alveary)
Kind of. Each bee attempts to produce its products and specialties once each cycle (550 ticks). However, the base chance does not give the final chance that a product is produced, but can be changed by various factors (e.g. in an apiary multiply chance by 0.1 (the 10% from ealier, alvearies have a multiplier of 1.0), for fastest bees multiply the chance by 1.7 (normal bees have a multiplier of 1.0), frames can alter the chance as well (e.g. time 2.0 for each untreated/impregnated/proven frame)). Obviously, the final production chance is capped at 100%. So, put another way: The base chance gives the chance of a bee with normal speed to produce a product in an alveary without frames.
There is one more execption for normal products (in contrast to specialties): Here, the bee can produce to products of this kind per cycle (actually once the product of its primary species, once of its secondary species), the second product uses half the base chance, but all other factors are computed the same...
What do you mean by "base chance items". Every normal product and every specialty have a base chance, however, normal products may be produced twice each cycle (the second one with half the base chance), while specialties will only be produced once at most each cycle.
Hope this helps.
Makes sense, thanks!
Thanks for the helpful info. Re: my #3, I think you answered it in number two... I wanted to know if "normal" products and "specialities" were treated differently.
I have a bee math problem. I'm trying to provide all the string I need for my untreated frames with wispy bees, but what happens in game doesn't match my math.
I think it should work like this:
Every tick*, each wispy queen makes 2 silky combs and 1 silk wisp.
Those 2 combs centrifuge down to 1.6 silky propolis. (80% chance)
1.6 propolis centrifuge down to 0.96 silk wisp (60% chance)
So 1.96 silk wisp/tick, or 0.65333 string/tick.
If that string is used to make untreated frames (good for 80 ticks), then every tick the wispy queen makes enough string to keep a frame in a housing for a little more than 52 (0.65333 * 80) ticks.
But that's not what happens.
I have 39 Alvearys, with up to (but not always) 4 frame housings each. 10 of them have wispy queens, and my stockpile of wispy silk is still decreasing. I don't have a backlog of combs/propolis, so that's not the problem. Where has my math gone wrong? I should be producing over three times as much string as I'm using.
Yes, I know there are different/easier ways to get regular string income, that's not what this questions is about. This question is about bees & math.
Thanks.
*bee-tick, that is.
I think it should work like this:
Every tick*, each wispy queen makes 2 silky combs and 1 silk wisp.
Those 2 combs centrifuge down to 1.6 silky propolis. (80% chance)
1.6 propolis centrifuge down to 0.96 silk wisp (60% chance)
So 1.96 silk wisp/tick, or 0.65333 string/tick.
If that string is used to make untreated frames (good for 80 ticks), then every tick the wispy queen makes enough string to keep a frame in a housing for a little more than 52 (0.65333 * 80) ticks.
But that's not what happens.
I have 39 Alvearys, with up to (but not always) 4 frame housings each. 10 of them have wispy queens, and my stockpile of wispy silk is still decreasing. I don't have a backlog of combs/propolis, so that's not the problem. Where has my math gone wrong? I should be producing over three times as much string as I'm using.
Yes, I know there are different/easier ways to get regular string income, that's not what this questions is about. This question is about bees & math.
Thanks.
*bee-tick, that is.
Ok, so the main point for your math was that every bee tick, they would produce 2 combs and 1 silk.
Seeing as your math isn't technically wrong, shouldn't we think the other way around?
I assume that either your base numbers are wrong, or that you assumed a "always 4 frames" situation.
For the numbers to be wrong, there are quite a few possible causes, including the fact that you didn't account for each bee's production speed (each princess AND each drone), or the assumption that this 2+1 is always true when it might not be.
As I don't know about your production speed, I can not do any calculations, because I don't have the necessary bases to calculate with.