How do you feel about AE2?
- Thread starter hisagishi
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'Crafting' times for pure crystals could do with being not dumb. There is literally no reason for it to take several hours other than pointless padding. In world crafting in general seems to be a cute gimmick that is just kind of... there.
Press hunting is bad. How exactly the idea of locking all of your mod's features behind pure, random chance was considered sensible is beyond me. Duplicating presses I have is useless in SSP since I can't recycle presses to make others, for reasons I cannot fathom. Thankfully, Minetweaker exists so I can enforce good design upon AE2's terrible press mechanics.
Channels are interesting. I haven't really gotten into them yet, but the ability to have a simple network without a controller is nice.
Press hunting is bad. How exactly the idea of locking all of your mod's features behind pure, random chance was considered sensible is beyond me. Duplicating presses I have is useless in SSP since I can't recycle presses to make others, for reasons I cannot fathom. Thankfully, Minetweaker exists so I can enforce good design upon AE2's terrible press mechanics.
Channels are interesting. I haven't really gotten into them yet, but the ability to have a simple network without a controller is nice.
I personally like what's been done. The presses are a bit of a hassle to get, but I like going on long exploration sessions anyway, so I just grab a meteorite compass and go out for an explore, stopping off at meteors I find on the way. It's not locked behind random chance, it just requires you to put a bit of effort in before you can get your system going.
Pure crystal growth times are quite slow, but as long as you have half-decent energy production you can deal with it quite effectively, as the growth accelerators are pretty cheap as far as resources go.
About the only complaint I have is that charged certus quartz is a pain to find, and producing fluix is gated behind finding enough to make a charger. After that though, everything's fine.
Pure crystal growth times are quite slow, but as long as you have half-decent energy production you can deal with it quite effectively, as the growth accelerators are pretty cheap as far as resources go.
About the only complaint I have is that charged certus quartz is a pain to find, and producing fluix is gated behind finding enough to make a charger. After that though, everything's fine.
Meteor spawns are random, and the plates you get from the meteors are random. Now, I don't have a doctorate in randomness, but that seems pretty random to me. And since you need all 4 plates to produce all the components you need for a full system, you're locked out until you get all four. Oh my, AE2 is suddenly bad design!
Also, it doesn't matter how much effort you put in if you're playing SMP and all the nearby meteors have been looted. The fact that duplicate plates are fairly useless doesn't help either.
Except there is no good reason for them to take so long to grow. It's lazy padding, which is trying to provide a lull in action (or something?) in a game with almost no action. I'm not going to say 'Algo doesn't understand game design' because the actual features you use the mod for require you to think about how you design your systems. Which is, you know, interesting. And the actually good way of adding engagement to tech mods. (It also doesn't overwhelm you with like 4 things to keep track of at once.)
ore spawns are random too! and you said things were gated behind! oh noes! (the point being that finding plates can be just as much a pain as finding charged quartz so yeah.)
The one thing that majorly bugs me is that I can't rename the plates and have them still go into the press. For instance I wanted to name the golden chip maker as a "golden chip press" so that I would quickly and easily know what that makes without having to NEI everytime I wanted to make a golden chip. Nope, won't even go into the machine.
Thats a minor issue though. I don't really like the in world crafting things either but they can be automated easily enough.
Thats a minor issue though. I don't really like the in world crafting things either but they can be automated easily enough.
I love the new AE2. It's more of a challenge, and honestly has set me up for more complex builds. I've been through 10 worlds since it was released to open beta, and honestly it was pretty good each time.
The whole "presses" issue has been talked about to death, but a lot of people don't have issues with it. My last world, I had 6 presses in an hour, and had 1 of each. If you are playing on a server, and no one will share (or use the iron block you'd give them to trade)/the admin won't help out, then you probably aren't playing on a good server.
The seeds are mid game, around the time you would have the accelerators and power, so I consider that a complete non-issue.
The whole "presses" issue has been talked about to death, but a lot of people don't have issues with it. My last world, I had 6 presses in an hour, and had 1 of each. If you are playing on a server, and no one will share (or use the iron block you'd give them to trade)/the admin won't help out, then you probably aren't playing on a good server.
The seeds are mid game, around the time you would have the accelerators and power, so I consider that a complete non-issue.
It's manageable. I had a little bit problem with powering the network, but it's because 1.7 was still young and I barely had any power sources other than EnderIO solars.
Use crystal growth accelerator thingie.
Use crystal growth accelerator thingie.
The only real negatives about AE2 I have is the bastardization of the MAC and the presses, which are possible the single dumbest change I have actually seen in some time. Aside from that, enough new functionality was added to prevent this from becoming a repeat of IC2E and the graphical style in some of the new blocks in just beautiful.
I don't know the press mechanic is only a problem in a multi-player scenario for single-player I can live with it I mean I don't hate Extra utilities becasue you have to hunt for the division sigil.
But in an SMP scenario it's going to be rough, if any one has tried to find a village that still has carrots, potatos and umm villagers imagine that but for access to AE2. Those plates will be a nightmare to acquire in multi-player servers that have been around, as those presses will become a rare commodity. Hopefully those on your server are kind and helpful and will let you replicate their presses that or your admin savvy and set's up a shop sign exchanging a block of iron for the press of your choice.
As mentioned there is a ways around the mechanics but it still seems like an odd design choice, frankly I'd like to know the rational behind the decision.
But in an SMP scenario it's going to be rough, if any one has tried to find a village that still has carrots, potatos and umm villagers imagine that but for access to AE2. Those plates will be a nightmare to acquire in multi-player servers that have been around, as those presses will become a rare commodity. Hopefully those on your server are kind and helpful and will let you replicate their presses that or your admin savvy and set's up a shop sign exchanging a block of iron for the press of your choice.
As mentioned there is a ways around the mechanics but it still seems like an odd design choice, frankly I'd like to know the rational behind the decision.
the other problem with presses is that it's hard to automate; you need 4 presses for the plate recipes and 2 channels per press, then you need another press and 4 more channels to do the last step
I mean you can put it in a subnet but then that is a subnet for each type
I mean you can put it in a subnet but then that is a subnet for each type
I think a lot of what you're upset about with AE2 is that it's now more time-intensive than it used to be. Sure, plate spawns are random, but a nice stroll with a meteorite compass can net you everything you need as long as you're patient enough to enjoy the journey rather than just want the end results. If you're worried about SMP situations, you do realise that presses are very easily duplicated once you have them. If the people you're playing with aren't prepared to let you copy their presses at no loss to them, you're probably playing in the wrong place.
Regarding the crystal growing - you're turning sand into Certus quartz. That's pretty beneficial resource-wise right there. So how do you apply a cost to it to balance it out? As you're being given resources, then the two main things to turn to are power and time. What Algorithm's done with the crystal growth and the accelerators is give you some choice as to how that cost is balanced out. Want the crystals faster? Spend some power. Want to save power? Spend more time growing them. In terms of design, it seems pretty neat to me, as opposed to sand rapidly turning into quartz with little cost. Besides, IRL crystals are pretty slow to grow anyway.
And as for the charged quartz, what a horror! There's absolutely no way that by the time I've mined enough resources to want to make an ME system that I won't have found the one piece of charged certus quartz that's needed to make the charger. How will I cope? (seriously, if you get to the point where you want an ME system and haven't found one piece of charged certus, you're really unlucky. That's not bad design, that's the game mocking you)
My question is "why?"
Why does it have to be more time intensive? What does it add to the enjoyment of the mod?
While some may enjoy the "time sink" of some mods (looking at you here Gregtech LOL) a lot (as the backlash that still persists today demonstrates) of people don't like added tedium/steps just for the sake of added tedium/steps.
I stopped playing EQ and WoW because I realized the total time sink a lot of the things I wanted were, and decided I didn't want to do that anymore. This is why, while I respect Gregtech's creator, I avoid doing anything that involves IC2 and the Gregtech mods at all costs.
Apart from this, I think it will be interesting learning all the fun stuff you will be able to do in 1.7x AE... I just don't look forward to the forced time sink.
I'm of mixed emotions about the massive changes to AE2, but mostly positive.
On the one hand, the old MAC really was incredibly powerful for auto-crafting, easily pwning any other autocrafting system that has ever come out. And AE in general was cheap enough that the solution to any automation question was 'hook it up to the ME Network, that way you get all the stuff and get to automate it at the same time, because why not'.
I mean, look at DW20's base. He's using P2P tunnels to pipe WATER all over the place. P2P tunnels... just to move around water. Because it was cheaper.
Other than the whole plates appearing only as chest loot in random meteorites and a compass that doesn't work very well, what happened was a whole new level of complexity, however it wasn't simply 'do a bazillion sub-combines and stare at your crafting grid for two hours' like IC2 EX decided to do.
Channel Management has become an exciting challenge. Then again, I was the crazy guy who came up with CRCS and Tower of Power builds, so I guess I'm used to it by now. P2P tunnels are now useful as more than just moving water around, you can move channels too. Send 32 channels through a P2P tunnel. You'll now actually see a use in coloring ME Cable, covered cable, and smart cable. Sub-Networks are now a Thing.
Previously, when you had a sub-system that would output a finished product, you just hooked it up to the main system. In AE2, you can't quite do that, BUT you can pipe stuff out of your dedicated sub-system to any ME Interface in your main system and still have access to the product without eating up the channels from your sub-system. Also, there's plenty of ways that don't involve using buses to automate stuff. Many machines now will auto-eject, meaning you only need an ME Interface, not a bus, and that one ME Interface can accept piped input as well, meaning you only need a single Interface for all of the outputs on the entire system. That alone can dramatically reduce the number of channels you use. There's just... I'm going to have to write a whole guide dedicated to channel management.
On the one hand, the old MAC really was incredibly powerful for auto-crafting, easily pwning any other autocrafting system that has ever come out. And AE in general was cheap enough that the solution to any automation question was 'hook it up to the ME Network, that way you get all the stuff and get to automate it at the same time, because why not'.
I mean, look at DW20's base. He's using P2P tunnels to pipe WATER all over the place. P2P tunnels... just to move around water. Because it was cheaper.
Other than the whole plates appearing only as chest loot in random meteorites and a compass that doesn't work very well, what happened was a whole new level of complexity, however it wasn't simply 'do a bazillion sub-combines and stare at your crafting grid for two hours' like IC2 EX decided to do.
Channel Management has become an exciting challenge. Then again, I was the crazy guy who came up with CRCS and Tower of Power builds, so I guess I'm used to it by now. P2P tunnels are now useful as more than just moving water around, you can move channels too. Send 32 channels through a P2P tunnel. You'll now actually see a use in coloring ME Cable, covered cable, and smart cable. Sub-Networks are now a Thing.
Previously, when you had a sub-system that would output a finished product, you just hooked it up to the main system. In AE2, you can't quite do that, BUT you can pipe stuff out of your dedicated sub-system to any ME Interface in your main system and still have access to the product without eating up the channels from your sub-system. Also, there's plenty of ways that don't involve using buses to automate stuff. Many machines now will auto-eject, meaning you only need an ME Interface, not a bus, and that one ME Interface can accept piped input as well, meaning you only need a single Interface for all of the outputs on the entire system. That alone can dramatically reduce the number of channels you use. There's just... I'm going to have to write a whole guide dedicated to channel management.
To be honest, I'm not even sure automating things with AE2 worth it, unless if you consider process of doing it a reward in itself. Initial processing and sorting can be done with simpler mods such as EnderIO. Crafting can be done nearly instantly with NEI and AE work bench interface. Bulk processing with machines can be done with just putting raw resources in their input chests.
I don't like the meteors. They're ugly. They fuck up nice biomes. I would rather trade with a villager if plates must be a gated mechanic.
I don't like how it took a sci-fi turn. I was perfectly fine with Controllers and everything else looking like regular computer parts.
In the end, though, those things matter little to me because the only thing I'll do with AE is make one drive, one interface, and ten storage cells. I'll take all of that and then stick it at the end of my Logistics Pipes system.
I don't like how it took a sci-fi turn. I was perfectly fine with Controllers and everything else looking like regular computer parts.
In the end, though, those things matter little to me because the only thing I'll do with AE is make one drive, one interface, and ten storage cells. I'll take all of that and then stick it at the end of my Logistics Pipes system.
The only problem with your proposed setup is that Logistics pipes requires Buildcraft as a dependency. Now, once ducts comes out, if someone makes a Logistics Ducts mod...
i still use buildcraft as my main transport/sorting mod. i also use IE as my browser.