How can I safely use combustion engines and redstone energy cells?

[Infallible83]

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been answered before or is obvious to many but my forum searches haven't turned up an answer for me.

I luckily found two VERY large oil spawns near my base and subsequentially have a significant amount of fuel available to me, as a result I wanted to try to use Combustion Engines as one of my sources of power. However, probably due to my poor setup, I cannot work out a way to effectively shut down the engines when my buffer cells are full. Below is a rough idea of my setup.

40 engines via energy conduit into a large number of buffer cells:

lines are conduits and "c" are cells, "t" are tesseracts.

Engines ____________________________________
| | | | |
CCC CCC CCC CCC CCC
-t- -t- -t- -t- -t-

I currently have gates attached to the middle cell in each bank of 3 buffers which all feed via OR gates to shut off the redstone signal too all the combustion engines. However, I have tried three different iterations of this and all have resulted in explosions where the cells dont return a true full value.

i have found the information below fomr the ftbwiki.org site which seems to address this but I dont actualyl understand the description.

Double buffer setup and a redstone clock. The cell will reliably send a Full Energy signal if power is not constantly being drawn from it and continues to be supplied. By briefly interrupting the output of the energy cell, it is possible to detect, at regular intervals, whether or not the buffer is full. Since cells can be turned on and off with redstone, a clock can provide this interrupting signal.
However, to avoid interruptions in machine operation, it is desirable to make the clock send as brief and infrequent signals as possible. Energy will continue to be produced in between clock signals, and to avoid wasting this energy if the output buffer is full, a secondary buffer is needed. Machines draw from the primary buffer, which draws from the secondary buffer. The primary buffer is occasionally switched off if the engines are running, and the secondary buffer catches the overflow between when the primary buffer fills up and when the next clock pulse comes in.

Is anyone able to help me with either a clear explanation that an idiot could understand, an alternative setup that allows for high output on demand and storage capabilities when not, or a video of somone doing a similar setup that I could mimic?

Thanks in advacne for your help and sorry for the wall of text.

Infallible[DOUBLEPOST=1373450794][/DOUBLEPOST]I failed on the diagram as I didnt realise it wouldnt allow "spaces". I will try to upload an image when I get home from work.

 

[SonOfABirch]

if you're using a 1.5.2 version, you can just put gates on the engines that say if heat is too high, emit a redstone signal. CJ explains it in a vid of his..

if you're not using that version, you will have to set up some structure pipes, with gates on them that read "energy full > redpipe signal" then pipewire running to the engines that say "redpipe signal > redstone signal" that will turn the engines off. It will be better to have all engines feeding 1 cell, then that one feeding another etc, so that you only need to put the gate on 1 cell, rather than them all.

 

[Infallible83]

Thank you for your quick responce but I have considered these things before.

In my current setup, I have a single redstone signal running through the centre of banks of four engines so that one switch can turn them all off. At the front of the engines is the conduit and on the remaining two faces are the warer and fuel input leaving no space for an additional gate. Due to the amount of power being generated, I need to use conduits (Which wont accept the gates).

I also tried this idea by putting the gates in the centre where the redwire is but if the gate is surrounded by four engines, as far as I know form my limited testing, it will only recognise the conditions of one engine opposed to all 4.

Also, I am currently using the "energy full > redpipe signal" that you suggest, but because the cell (under some circumstnces) can be under constant drain, the cell does not return an accurate and reliable signal to the gate (Of the gate cannot accurately read the cell). Either way resulting in an explosion.

Does that make sense? I am not very good at describing it.

Infallible

 

[ApSciLiara]

I would recommend setting up an RS Nor latch with whatever you have available, so that when the buffer is full, your engines don't start again until it's empty. That might not be what you want, but it's a start.

Sent from boobs (because why not?)

 

[Freakscar]

As long as you have 1 side next to your machines free, you can use cobblestone-structure pipes and attach the gates to those. They will still be able to monitor the machines from that pipe.

 

[Infallible83]

Thanks both for replying,

Morgs, I am not au fait with RS Nor latches and others of their ilk, but i'll do some research to see if I can set one up tonight to see how that works in my setup. Thanks for the tip.

Freakscar, unfortunately, as I said, because of the banks of engines being next to each other I dont have any free sides after I have included water, fuel, conduit, signal (and 2 engines on each side in their own banks). The only place I could put the gate is where the signal is currently but again I come to the problem of a gate only being able to detect the state of a single engine rather than all four that the signal is touching.

Thanks,

Infallible

 

[Wallienator]

Use a structure pipe next to the redstone energy cells, and add a gate which tells them to emit a redstone signal when their storage is under say 75% percent, then the engines run for a while, and once they're back up and the gate checks, the redstone signal turns off and your engines won't blow up.

 

[Runo]

How are you getting explosions? Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I can run combustion engines continuously hooked up to redstone conduits on fuel. They don't explode from an energy backlog or overheat, the only overheat and explode if you are not supplying sufficient water to them. I actually consider them to be the easiest form of MJ power.

Are you running BC pipes anywhere in the configuration? Combustion engines only use like 15-20 fuel a day so the % loss on power from conduit saves significant headache in configuration.

 

[Infallible83]

I think the safer assumption is to assume "I" am doing something wrong, my knowledge is limited. I was under the impression that a combustion engine will explode if there is no where for the MJ to go. I don't currently have a single BC pipe, only redstone energy conduits and redstone energy cells.

With reference to water supply, I have four Xycraft Water blocks feeding into a Xycraft Tank that pipes out (through Liquiducts) into three Liquid Tesseracts (All on the same frequency) and then output via four Liquid Tesseracts by the engines through Liquiducts into the engines. To date... I have never seen the tank or pipes less than full, not even the pipes half full.

I suppose I could have my matsh wrong with the amount of required water but from testing, there didnt seem to be a problem.

Also, EVERY part of the system is chunk loaded.

I will try to upload a video later with a walkthrough of my system, I imagine it is something quite basic that I am doing wrong.

Infallible

 

[Vovk]

Conduit is safe for all engines to constantly input into - it will just void extra power when it fills up, same with the redstone energy cell.

The only danger you'd want to auto shutoff for is fuel usage, and for that you'd want to monitor when the energy cell was at half capacity or so. If you turn your engines on and off every time your cell is 95% full or 100% full then you will have to wait for the 2-5 minute cooldown period all the time, if you are using a machine with constant draw you will constantly be losing engines. Also, redstone energy cells feeding a constant process will always be something like 599975/600000 because of the way the energy is transfered. You'd get a flickering redstone effect that would not do what you want.

an easy setup I've found is a tightly packed combustion engine bank controlled by different colours of redpower 2 cable.

Spoiler

start with some accumulators. I'm using way too many in this case, only half as many are needed. If you want to, you can propagate the end result pattern up to 4 layers but I only did two.

Spoiler

make sure the accumulators are redstone disabled.

Spoiler

engines and pipes go on top

Spoiler

and a view from the side to see the water pipes

Spoiler

add a bit of red power control to the sides

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second layer, same as the first but upside down

Spoiler

my end result

Spoiler

from this point, you can put another row of engines on top, with the water coming in through the bottom just like on layer 1. Hook it up just like layer 1. Then one more layer on top, upside down for layer 4 hooked up just like layer 2. Do not add any more layers as accumulators can only cool 4 engines each.

 

[Infallible83]

Unfortunately my work block images but I am looking forward to seeing the design when I get home.

I must be making another mistake then if energy conduits dispose of excess energy because mine keep blowing up. Can anyone confirm the amounts on the following:

• The output of Xycraft Water block
• The input and output capacities of liquid tesseracts
• the input and output capacities of Xycraft tanks

If what you are saying is correct, they are blowing up for a different reason.

Infallible

 

[rymmie1981]

If you're using the up-to-date version of BC, power pipes are a very, very viable alternative to conduits while being gate and pipe wire compatible. Look at the tooltips for ingame information. You can also find a couple spotlights for the new pipe system, too.

 

[Runo]

a xycraft water block outputs at 2.5x the speed of a aqueous accumulator, but only into a xycraft tank. 40 combustion engines should run on 1 or 2 xycraft waters, if i recall. my guess is you arent seeing the tank water drop because the next item is key, the output value of xytanks and iron tanks...its based on the extractor, so powered liquiducts. its 160mb/t per pipe valve connection in 1.47, or 3.2 barrels/sec.

my guess is youre using one or two output valves from your tank and it isnt enough. i know one output tank valve will definitely not cool 40 combustion engines. if i recall froma previous thread, combustion engines use 6mb/t of water on fuel, so 40 would use 240mb/t of water, which would require two tank valves and powered liquiducts. your mileage my vary in 1.52 as i think it got nerfed to 100mb/t or something, so 3 powered ducts.

 

[Infallible83]

Apologies, I should have stated, I am currently playing on 1.5.2.

I am an optermist, so I am sorta holding out to find out what Eloraam brings to the table and whether or not this will be included i any future packs. (I know there are replacements, I will move on eventually but I think redpower might get one last innings)


Edited to include responce to Runo

I currently have three liquiducts from my Xycraft tank, however I am not sure what you mean by powered. If you just mean I have dumped a lever next to it then yes they are powered, but i it is something else, there is a trick I am missing.

It could aso be how much can be sent via Liquid Tesseracts on the same frequency and whether or not a loop in liquiducts would cause an issue.

Infallible

 

[Vovk]

true - details here

http://minecraftbuildcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Conductive_Pipes

so the choice after bc 3.70 will be pipes for expensive throttled power without any loss whatsoever or cheaper conduit with 5% power loss and no throttling.

 

[Infallible83]

It looks like when I get round to updating that I will be going back to BC pipes. Thanks for the link, a good read.

 

[Runo]

Apologies, I should have stated, I am currently playing on 1.5.2.

I am an optermist, so I am sorta holding out to find out what Eloraam brings to the table and whether or not this will be included i any future packs. (I know there are replacements, I will move on eventually but I think redpower might get one last innings)


Edited to include responce to Runo

I currently have three liquiducts from my Xycraft tank, however I am not sure what you mean by powered. If you just mean I have dumped a lever next to it then yes they are powered, but i it is something else, there is a trick I am missing.

It could aso be how much can be sent via Liquid Tesseracts on the same frequency and whether or not a loop in liquiducts would cause an issue.

Infallible

Liquid tesseracts can only receive 100mb/t per side, and if you don't have the send and receive set perfectly, they can empty and refill connected liquiducts destroying output. Using tesseracts you would need multiple output sides since an unpowered liquiduct can only receive 80mb/t I think? Though since they treat it like a pipe you may only need one output.

 

[Grydian2]

But Vovk how do you store said power? How do you extract it from a redstone energy cell at rates higher then 32mj/tic I am just saying I have looked at it and imo storing energy is still way way more important then lossless pipes...

 

[Vovk]

erm grydian - redstone energy cell can output up to 100 MJ/t

if you need more, put 2 side by side for a throughput of 200 MJ/t

if you have a constant system which needs even more, just hook it up directly to the engines and have the cell take the runoff...

ah you mean with the new wooden pipe cap at 32 mj/t?

put 4 wooden pipes leading out from the same cell - that will cover the 100mj/t cap

 

[Infallible83]

I am hoping that you wont need a wooden pipe to export from REC and you will just be able to connect to gold/diamond etc.


Edited because I saw Vovk's post and realised I was an idiot...