GregTech vs. EE (My argument *against* the addition of EE)

[superriku11]

No it won't. You missed MY point completely. Those who dislike it can disable it or use packs that don't have it. I'm sure you're not the only one, so there's going to be plenty of servers out there for you. They're not going to discourage the use of a mod just because YOU don't like it. Especially a mod created by their friend.

I hate to break it to you, but it's probably going be in the main pack and a lot of the other ones too. You're going to have to disable it or use a pack that doesn't have it. Get over it. FTB doesn't revolve around you or what you do or don't like.

It's much less of an extra step for people/servers that don't like it to say "Download X pack and disable A B and C mods" rather than have people/servers download mods from somewhere else, side load them, and then hope there aren't any ID conflicts.

Okay, then you just failed to see it from my point of view.

For one, please stop being rude. I know FTB does not revolve around me. I'm trying to more strongly represent the views of those who are against EE, as well as my own views. I don't expect them to make a change because I want them to. However, what I do hope for is that by making a more detailed thread about the reasons EE should not be in default pack at the least, is that it will be realized how it unbalances the game and that it will at least only be part of one or two additional packs.

Again, if it's in the pack by default, and it feels less overpowered than the last version, most people will probably use it, despite it still being overpowered. There will be some servers without it, but will their community, hardware, setup, and all that sort of stuff be as good as the majority of servers, the ones that will have it? Probably not if EE is a default.

Also, a mod should not be added because the author of it is friends with creators of FTB, and is just trying to make it a bit less overpowered due to complaints. That's really not fair on any level. They can be friends, but his mod should be treated like any other. At this time, it's just at the point of duplicating the balanced functionality of GregTech's ability to exchange but making it easier and less balanced. There should be absolutely no way this mod is even considered, if we're following the rules that Jadedcat stated for mods that won't be accepted. So again, this is where I'm feeling some unfair favoritism for EE.

Actually, I'm not mad at all. If he had bothered to do a little searching, he would have seem that there's a million other treads about this that all end the same way: "If you don't like it, disable it."

It can't get any simpler or easier than that!

I did search, and I saw this many times. I addressed it before. I'm aware the common answer due to favoritism is "IT'LL BE IN THE FRICKIN PACK NOW SHUT UP WE'RE BETTER THAN YOU. DISABLE IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT" however again, if it's a default, more servers will have it than not, which isn't a good thing. As I said, it's really just duplicating GregTech, but not having as many features, and being too easy. And too many people like easy that they ruin the fun of most servers for those who don't like easy.

 

[DaNerd27]

No it won't. You missed MY point completely. Those who dislike it can disable it or use packs that don't have it. I'm sure you're not the only one, so there's going to be plenty of servers out there for you. They're not going to discourage the use of a mod just because YOU don't like it. Especially a mod created by their friend.

I hate to break it to you, but it's probably going be in the main pack and a lot of the other ones too. You're going to have to disable it or use a pack that doesn't have it. Get over it. FTB doesn't revolve around you or what you do or don't like.

It's much less of an extra step for people/servers that don't like it to say "Download X pack and disable A B and C mods" rather than have people/servers download mods from somewhere else, side load them, and then hope there aren't any ID conflicts.



Actually, I'm not mad at all. If he had bothered to do a little searching, he would have seem that there's a million other treads about this that all end the same way: "If you don't like it, disable it."

It can't get any simpler or easier than that!

I completely understand where you're coming from, and I must agree that the OP could have done a bit more to examine the issue, but I may or may not have detected slight traces of frustration and strawberry-flavored text in your original post. Please excuse me for the misunderstanding.

 

[Narcisism]

Honestly, I'm somewhat offended that what he wants is to say "No. No EE3 for anyone. NO packs should have it." That's horrible. Heck, I wouldn't even wish that for GregTech, and my opinions on that are getting to be fairly well known.

Also, EE3 doesn't make "scientific sense"? You've never seen the anime that the Alchemy in EE3 is based off of. The idea is that you trade something for something else. EE2 made it over powered in that there was a way to get something from nothing: The collectors and condensers. EE3 won't have that, and think about it this way: Let's use EE2's EMC values for items, just because I know the numbers off the top of my head:

Cobble has a value of 1. Diamonds have a value of 8192. That means you'd need 8192 pieces of cobblestone to get a single diamond. Now consider that part of the plan for EE3 is to have there be "loss". Some of the EMC energy is diminished into the atmosphere. Which means you need even more cobble to get a single diamond. On top of that, you can't convert directly to diamonds from cobble. You have to work your way up the chain, using durability on the minium stone each and every transmutation you do. So convert 8192 cobble into the next step up (wood), 8 pieces of cobble at a time, and see how much minium you go through doing that. On top of that, the crafting itself is pretty tedious. Project Tables make that less tedious, but it's still a lot of clicking. THEN you have to convert your 1024 wood up into obsidian. So you have 2 stacks of obsidian. Which you then convert up to iron, to gold, to diamond.

What you're forgetting is that the transmutation ISN'T free. You need minium. Which is going to get harder to get than it currently is. Eventually, you'll be able to get the true Philosopher's Stone, which will make transmutations free. But that's really far up EE's tech tree, and needs a few Nether Stars, if I remember right. That's not any different from GregTech, because as you get farther along the tech tree in GT, you get things like the Fusion Reactor which generate OBSCENE amounts of EU. So really, the both start you off with something that you need that's easy to mine (cobble / netherrack), toss it into something (crafting table / IC2 machines), use some energy (Minium / EU) then get diamonds out, and once you get farther into the mod's tech tree, the energy you needs becomes trivial / negligible.

Oh, btw, 8192 cobble is 128 stacks. So it's actually MORE expensive than GregTech's method, in terms of raw resources. And those resources are harder to mine, because Netherrack mines EASY.

 

[Shadowquinn]

The point is if you don't want EE don't use it.

 

[superriku11]

My personal opinion: GregTech's changes to other people's mods are tedious nonsense that I don't want to be bothered with, but EE2's "infinite everything instantly" was way too over-the-top. I don't usually complain about things being overpowered, but... yeah... a machine that basically turns on creative mode kind of makes the entire resource-gathering aspect of the game pointless. I think it's too early to make a call on EE3; I do think he's trying much harder to make it balanced and he's listening to feedback. I don't think he wants another Tekkit scenario where half the Tekkit servers are "Tekkit without EE". He wants his mod to fit alongside the other popular mods rather than obsolete them.

As I said, GregTech may be a bit hard in some people's views. I personally like it. It's not at the level that things are impossible, I think things are balanced enough in GregTech. It makes things like Solar Panels harder to get, and for good reason. They're essentially infinite sources of energy. Unlike Nuclear Reactors or Geothermal Generators, they don't need to be refueled in any way. And the more expensive ones produce a lot more power.

I know that EE3 is still in development, but I think it's far enough that we can begin to discuss the issues about it, which is why I made this thread. Minimum Stones are basically the "infinite everything instantly" item. Even if they wear down and break, if they drop from mobs it'll be easy to continue to get them.

Most things in the game can be farmed, and mob farms are common things.




GregTech's cap on exchanging items is very good. You need lots of resources to get the right things in the first place. To power those things you need lots of power. And it's only easy to get large amounts of power once you're later into the game. You can't make high output Solar Panels without Sunnarium, which requires UU-Matter, which requires a Matterfabricator, which requires a lot of power. Without those high output Solar Panels, you'll need something like a Nuclear Reactor for your initial Matterfabricator usage. And for that you have to learn and experiment, if you're not safe you'll blow things up.




So again, GregTech caps the amount you can exchange items in a good way that requires progression. At this point, I'm not seeing what EE could do, since they don't seem to want to integrate with things like EU or even MJ power. I think power is an effective way to cap things, but EE isn't making use of that, so the only cap is durability of items involved, i.e. Minium Stones, which would be easy to get more of, and then the amount of items needed to make a Diamond for example. And when a ton of sand makes a Diamond, there's no real way to cap that effectively.




So again, anything EE could do to make things more balanced is just being more like GregTech minus all it's other features. EE really is just a duplicate mod at this point. So why add it? If the creators of FTB really are only doing it because the creator of EE is their friend, they need to drop that and consider the good of the modpack, not their own interests.

 

[Narcisism]

First off: Just did some fast math. 1196 transmutations. And like I said, the plan for minium is not for it to just be another mob drop. That's a temporary thing for the beta release, to allow for testing of the actual mechanics more easily. Minium will be harder to get, involving poisoning yourself with red water. You won't be able to get the minium stone without getting close enough to red water that you start taking heavy damage. And EU is pretty easy to get, too, once you're at the point where you're trying to mass produce diamonds. One nuclear reactor is fairly cheap and not all that expensive. And again I can bring up GT's Fusion Reactor, which makes EU generation something you'll never need to worry about ever again.

And I'm not sure I understand why there's a difference in item durability and EU. They both limit the use of something in a way that is effective. Heck, I'd say item durability is MORE limiting, because the energy transfer stuff is mostly automatic. You have to go and manually make another minium stone.

EDIT: You keep using the phrase "Infinite Everything Instantly". I don't think you understand what any of those words mean. "Infinite" means "without limit" or "unlimited" or "without end". EE3 is NOT infinite. The very nature of the minium stone degrading makes it not infinite. You can do X transmutations, then it breaks, and you can't do any more until you go make a new one. Also, you don't get infinite items, anyway. You get exactly as much items as you have materials for. You can only get a diamond if you happen to have 4 gold, or 8192 cobble stone, or 32 iron. That's not "infinite". You are limited by what you currently have on-hand. What WAS "infinite everything" was the collectors, but those are entirely removed. With nothing coming in to replace them, as far as I know. And lastly, "Instantly" meaning "right now" or "no time involved". Go to a crafting table and craft 1196 items. That is NOT instant, and that's not factoring in any loss of EMC, nor does it factor in crafting new minium stones. So the phrase "Infinite Everything Instantly" is entirely wrong here.

 

[Mero]

Why does it matter if a server has it or not?
I'm pretty sure nobody is going to come to your house and put a gun to your head and tell you you have to use EE3 or die.
I seriously doubt you will get banned from a server if you don't use it.

Just because a mod is on a server, it doesn't mean you must use it.

 

[superriku11]

Honestly, I'm somewhat offended that what he wants is to say "No. No EE3 for anyone. NO packs should have it." That's horrible. Heck, I wouldn't even wish that for GregTech, and my opinions on that are getting to be fairly well known.

Also, EE3 doesn't make "scientific sense"? You've never seen the anime that the Alchemy in EE3 is based off of. The idea is that you trade something for something else. EE2 made it over powered in that there was a way to get something from nothing: The collectors and condensers. EE3 won't have that, and think about it this way: Let's use EE2's EMC values for items, just because I know the numbers off the top of my head:

Cobble has a value of 1. Diamonds have a value of 8192. That means you'd need 8192 pieces of cobblestone to get a single diamond. Now consider that part of the plan for EE3 is to have there be "loss". Some of the EMC energy is diminished into the atmosphere. Which means you need even more cobble to get a single diamond. On top of that, you can't convert directly to diamonds from cobble. You have to work your way up the chain, using durability on the minium stone each and every transmutation you do. So convert 8192 cobble into the next step up (wood), 8 pieces of cobble at a time, and see how much minium you go through doing that. On top of that, the crafting itself is pretty tedious. Project Tables make that less tedious, but it's still a lot of clicking. THEN you have to convert your 1024 wood up into obsidian. So you have 2 stacks of obsidian. Which you then convert up to iron, to gold, to diamond.

What you're forgetting is that the transmutation ISN'T free. You need minium. Which is going to get harder to get than it currently is. Eventually, you'll be able to get the true Philosopher's Stone, which will make transmutations free. But that's really far up EE's tech tree, and needs a few Nether Stars, if I remember right. That's not any different from GregTech, because as you get farther along the tech tree in GT, you get things like the Fusion Reactor which generate OBSCENE amounts of EU. So really, the both start you off with something that you need that's easy to mine (cobble / netherrack), toss it into something (crafting table / IC2 machines), use some energy (Minium / EU) then get diamonds out, and once you get farther into the mod's tech tree, the energy you needs becomes trivial / negligible.

Oh, btw, 8192 cobble is 128 stacks. So it's actually MORE expensive than GregTech's method, in terms of raw resources. And those resources are harder to mine, because Netherrack mines EASY.

What I meant the most was that the default pack should not have it. To have a variant of the default pack with only EE3 as an addition, I wouldn't like it, but I think it'd be okay. I'd like for no packs to have it for reasons I've stated before, however I understand lots of people like it for no reason I can understand other than they like the game to be easy. I'm not trying to be harsh, I just feel like if EE is turned on by a click or option switch, most servers will use it and it'll be hard to find one without it.

Also, yes, it doesn't make scientific sense. And no, I've never seen anime. I always thought it was kind of weird and never really liked it. I'm just saying that the process of Items > Recycling > Massfabricating > UU-Matter > New Items makes more sense than items in a table with a stone makes new items. I know in real science you can't change items to UU-Matter or something similar and back to other items. However it's a game. However it makes a lot more sense than putting things in a crafting table and instantly turning them to other things.

Also, even if it requires 128 stacks of cobble, that's easy to auto mine one way or another. If you've ever run a Quarry you will have chests full of cobble. I generally run 64 x 64 Quarrys. 64*64=4096. I realize there's ores dispersed throughout the ground, but you still get TONS of cobble. Again, the GregTech process caps how much stuff you can get by both time and power. EE does none of these. If you've got enough items, you've essentially got anything you want.




I don't know how hard they're going to make it to get Minium, but if it's from mobs, mob traps are easy to construct in about an hour. If you have a spawner, a few minutes. If it's gotten from ore mining, well then again, this is just more and more going in the direction of GregTech. You need lots of ores to make lots of advanced blocks for the advanced GregTech machines.

Also, if the Philosopher's Stone is meant to be really far down EE's tree, this is again just more like GregTech. I know in GregTech there's the Fusion Reactor, but this is multipurpose. It makes energy which is used for lots of things. And yeah, it does make more than you'll ever need, so you'll just get unlimited UU-Matter basically, but you still require resources to build multiple Recyclers and Matterfabricators if you want more speed. With EE, once you've got that Philosopher's Stone, from what I understand, it's only use is just infinite items.



So, again, it's like GregTech, minus all the cool features. It's only item exchanging.

The point is if you don't want EE don't use it.

When will people stop saying this? Okay, yes, for Single Player this is a solution. Not for Multiplayer. If EE is easy to enable in 1 click, or even worse, if it's default, most servers will have it. And it'll be hard to find a good server that doesn't. And when you consider EE doesn't add anything significant you can't already do, and only makes the game easier, why should it be added at all? At the very least, it shouldn't be part of the default pack. If there's a Default + EE3 pack, I'd be okay with that, just hopefully not every good server will use it.

 

[superriku11]

First off: Just did some fast math. 1196 transmutations. And like I said, the plan for minium is not for it to just be another mob drop. That's a temporary thing for the beta release, to allow for testing of the actual mechanics more easily. Minium will be harder to get, involving poisoning yourself with red water. You won't be able to get the minium stone without getting close enough to red water that you start taking heavy damage. And EU is pretty easy to get, too, once you're at the point where you're trying to mass produce diamonds. One nuclear reactor is fairly cheap and not all that expensive. And again I can bring up GT's Fusion Reactor, which makes EU generation something you'll never need to worry about ever again.

And I'm not sure I understand why there's a difference in item durability and EU. They both limit the use of something in a way that is effective. Heck, I'd say item durability is MORE limiting, because the energy transfer stuff is mostly automatic. You have to go and manually make another minium stone.

EDIT: You keep using the phrase "Infinite Everything Instantly". I don't think you understand what any of those words mean. "Infinite" means "without limit" or "unlimited" or "without end". EE3 is NOT infinite. The very nature of the minium stone degrading makes it not infinite. You can do X transmutations, then it breaks, and you can't do any more until you go make a new one. Also, you don't get infinite items, anyway. You get exactly as much items as you have materials for. You can only get a diamond if you happen to have 4 gold, or 8192 cobble stone, or 32 iron. That's not "infinite". You are limited by what you currently have on-hand. What WAS "infinite everything" was the collectors, but those are entirely removed. With nothing coming in to replace them, as far as I know. And lastly, "Instantly" meaning "right now" or "no time involved". Go to a crafting table and craft 1196 items. That is NOT instant, and that's not factoring in any loss of EMC, nor does it factor in crafting new minium stones. So the phrase "Infinite Everything Instantly" is entirely wrong here.

It's not entirely wrong. For one, standard cheap items like Cobblestone are very infinite. You can make a lava + water system that generates Cobblestone faster than anything can mine it. The world in Minecraft is essentially infinite, you can go blow up a ton of Cobblestone underground and never run out.

Also, Autocrafting Tables exist for a reason. Unless intelligent limitations are put on how Minium stones are obtained, i.e. not from mob drops, you could just have something that auto crafts a ton of them, so you never run out, and they're essentially infinite anyways.

Also, Iron is very easy to get. In about an hour of mining I found myself with 5 stacks plus a bit more of Iron Ore. Macerate that and you've got 10 stacks of Ingots. EE3 that up and you've got 5 stacks of Diamonds? What part of that seems "equivalent" or fair? I understand the Cobblestone is excessive in how much you'll need, so it's impractical, but Iron is very common and easy to get.


And I'm aware that EU is easy to get if you're at the point of being capable of mass producing Diamonds. This is really okay, because by this point, you're pretty much end-game. And mining to get Diamonds (which are pretty rare and take a while to find by mining) will just set you back in building whatever you want to build. If you're end-game, it doesn't need to take you hours and hours to get a stack of Diamonds.

Why does it matter if a server has it or not?
I'm pretty sure nobody is going to come to your house and put a gun to your head and tell you you have to use EE3 or die.
I seriously doubt you will get banned from a server if you don't use it.

Just because a mod is on a server, it doesn't mean you must use it.

I already explained this in the beginning of this thread. If servers have it and I play on those servers, I'm at a disadvantage. If I restrict myself from using it because I don't like it, I'll have few Diamonds when everyone else exchanged 5 stacks of Iron Ore for 5 stacks of Diamonds. Already you must see, no part of this is right. Iron is very easy to find, and it should be, because it's needed for a ton of things. But you shouldn't be able to exchange Iron for Diamonds, because that over inflates the Diamond economy, so to speak.

Again, not using it works for Single Player. Not for Multiplayer.

 

[Shadowquinn]

So you want to remove EE because it's easy mode? OK. Lets take out the macerators cause they make it to easy to double your ore. Is that not easy mode? Let's take out the Q armor cause in it you are a god so that should be removed. And damn it they need to remove the bed because god help you if you are on the server alone and don't want to put up with the night time. Are those all not made to make the game easy?

And people will never stop saying "just don't use it" because that's the truth. If you don't like what is in the mod pack then stfu and make your own.

 

[Mero]

Disadvantaged to what end??

If somebody plays on a server longer than you, they will have more stuff than you.

On the vanilla server I play on I have 3-4 stacks of diamond ore, gold ore, lapis, multiple double chests of coal/redstone ore. Tons and tons of resources. Any newish player doesn't have a fraction of that.
So what.
When did minecraft become a competition to see who has more stuff?
Is your epeen gonna fall off if somebody plays twice as many hours a day as you do?

 

[Dex Luther]

I already explained this in the beginning of this thread. If servers have it and I play on those servers, I'm at a disadvantage.\

You're at a disadvantage for what? You don't seem to get it. This game is about building things. I don't see where the competition is, so I don't see where the disadvantage of you not using something others are.

Using your logic servers should be reset when you start playing on them otherwise you're at a disadvantage compared to the people that started before you.

Diamond pickaxes should be removed from the game because I haven't found diamond yet on the server I play, so I'm at a disadvantage.

 

[Shadowquinn]

Is your epeen gonna fall off if somebody plays twice as many hours a day as you do?​

​

ROFL best reply today. ​

 

[Mikey_R]

Greg Tech's goal isn't changing one item into another, that's just a side thing. Greg's main goal was more of an end game to the IC2 tech tree, so fusion reactors, lightning rods, bigger storage devices etc. The centrifuge is just a mechanic he used to make more interesting to get certain items, like the fuels needed for fusion reactors and the silicon cells for solars. All it basically does is take the item and split it, just like a centrifuge does IRL.

However, EE3 IS based on changing items from one to another using equivalent values. You say it isn't equivalent, but if I have 2 50p coins, that is equivalent to £1 coin. It's the same idea.

You also mention it isn't sciencey like Greg Tech, well, you would be right, it isn't, but it isn't trying to be. In the scientific stages, Greg Tech is your advanced (not to distant future) physics based science whereas you can see EE as your early forms of Chemistry. 2 different types of sciences based on 2 different idea.

And, as a final note. The mod is far, far from done. I would say it's unfair to judge it in this early stage as it hasn't really been tested and balanced yet. You can start to complain if you don't like it when it is closer to being done (although I think alot of your negativity comes from your dislike of EE2) and the mod has had a change to sort out balance issues.

 

[superriku11]

So you want to remove EE because it's easy mode? OK. Lets take out the macerators cause they make it to easy to double your ore. Is that not easy mode? Let's take out the Q armor cause in it you are a god so that should be removed. And damn it they need to remove the bed because god help you if you are on the server alone and don't want to put up with the night time. Are those all not made to make the game easy?

And people will never stop saying "just don't use it" because that's the truth. If you don't like what is in the mod pack then stfu and make your own.

For one, doubling ore I don't have a problem with. You still have to mine, but you don't have to mine as much. And if you've got the standard Macerator, it goes slow and consumes small amounts of power, however they're proportionate to what you would have. You can speed it up with overclockers, but it'll require more power, and those overclockers require resources. Not expensive ones, but I feel they're balanced. The mods cause increased resource usage anyways. You'd spend a ton of time caving and mining and doing those sort of boring tedious tasks just over and over if you didn't have a Macerator. On top of that, you can't even Macerate valuable things like Diamonds or Redstone until you have a silk touch pick or rockcutter to get the actual block and not the item.

The Quantum Armor is very powerful. I wouldn't be completely against it's removal, however I don't have a problem with it being in. I don't like PvP all that much, and when I do like PvP, I only like it in vanilla for the most part. I'm okay with it though because it's pretty end-game anyways. You need a ton of resources for it. And by the time you have that many resources, you've dealt with enough annoying mobs and fall damage and other stuff that there's not a reason to keep dealing with it if you want to spend your resources on super armor.

And skipping the night isn't something I have a problem with either. It's just tedious building in the night with the possibility of mobs interrupting you and it being dark. But beds are something that only work in Single Player. They work in Multiplayer but only if you're the only one online or if everyone sleeps. Therefore you don't gain an unfair advantage in Multiplayer if you use beds. You're not gaining anything really by skipping the night anyways.




EE is very different. It's not just turning your Iron Ore into more Iron which ends up working out, it's not letting you make it day because you don't like building when it's hard to see, it's not just being almost invincible when you're end-game anyways. No. It's letting you unfairly take something there's already lots of, like Iron or even Cobblestone if you're determined to do that, and turn it into tons of Diamonds. Making them less valuable than they should be.




People won't stop saying "just don't use it" because they like it. They like being able to turn their excess Iron into unfair amounts of Diamonds. EE isn't balanced at all. And so far, if they do make it more balanced, again, it's just GregTech minus all the extra features beyond item exchange.

 

[Sirbab]

Oi now, have you people even played EE3 yet? (didn't even think it was released, is it?) without giving the mod a good playing through, don't be so quick to say you won't use it, in fact, there will be plenty of servers not using it, because Calclavia won't have it (i don't think anyways) And more packs are coming, besides a few Ftb ultimate packs will probably have the stones' crafting recipes off. So no worries there, it's not like the nuke that can very very easily ruin your day, with little effort.

And for the record, i usually have more diamonds mid game than iron, so i doubt many people will be transmuting iron to diamonds

 

[superriku11]

Greg Tech's goal isn't changing one item into another, that's just a side thing. Greg's main goal was more of an end game to the IC2 tech tree, so fusion reactors, lightning rods, bigger storage devices etc. The centrifuge is just a mechanic he used to make more interesting to get certain items, like the fuels needed for fusion reactors and the silicon cells for solars. All it basically does is take the item and split it, just like a centrifuge does IRL.

However, EE3 IS based on changing items from one to another using equivalent values. You say it isn't equivalent, but if I have 2 50p coins, that is equivalent to £1 coin. It's the same idea.

You also mention it isn't sciencey like Greg Tech, well, you would be right, it isn't, but it isn't trying to be. In the scientific stages, Greg Tech is your advanced (not to distant future) physics based science whereas you can see EE as your early forms of Chemistry. 2 different types of sciences based on 2 different idea.

And, as a final note. The mod is far, far from done. I would say it's unfair to judge it in this early stage as it hasn't really been tested and balanced yet. You can start to complain if you don't like it when it is closer to being done (although I think alot of your negativity comes from your dislike of EE2) and the mod has had a change to sort out balance issues.

I'm aware that was a side thing. However it works as if it's a main feature.

I know EE is based only on exchanging items, which is one of the reasons it feels cheaty. If they did it in a better way, it might work better. However it'd still just be copying GregTech in a way, so why add it?

I'm glad you at least address the science part I speak of unlike most people. GregTech feels like it makes sense in how items are exchanged, and it feels like more of an accomplishment to do so, and even more so if you figure out how to automate it. However I have no idea how EE is chemistry. That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Based on previous a previous reply, I'm assuming it's alchemy from some anime show. Again, never watched anime, thought it was weird, but things in anime aren't real. I know GregTech's "science" isn't real either, but it feels more plausible and cool than just "Magic stone makes Iron into Diamonds".



Yes, most of my complaints come from my dislike of EE2. But I have a general idea of what EE3 is meant to be like. And it's still just not balanced in my opinion. One of the reasons I like GregTech is that the amount of things you can get from UU-Matter is restricted. It's still incredibly helpful, but you can't get everything. It's also a sort of thing that feels like it's almost not meant to be done, even though it is. It's a bit hard to describe. But, in the early parts of the game, if you struggle and use all your resources to scrounge up one Matterfabricator, you can literally mine Diamonds faster than you can fabricate them. However when you upgrade your infrastructure and power generation, you can get to a point where you produce UU-Matter at a decent rate. It'll give you a Diamond or other valuable item here or there, but you won't just be able to get a ton. Only once you're very end-game can you just get tons and tons.

 

[Dex Luther]

People won't stop saying "just don't use it" because they like it. They like being able to turn their excess Iron into unfair amounts of Diamonds. EE isn't balanced at all. And so far, if they do make it more balanced, again, it's just GregTech minus all the extra features beyond item exchange.

Hey Guess what. I'm not saying anything because I like EE. To be honest I've never even used it. I don't like GregTech, and guess what I did? Guess. I DISABLED IT! The server I play on has it, but I STILL DON'T USE IT! Simple as that. Yeah it sucks that I still have to live with the more expensive recipes for things, but I don't care. I'm there to build my own stuff. I don't care what others have or don't have. It have absolutely ZERO impact on my game.

I'm glad you at least address the science part I speak of unlike most people. GregTech feels like it makes sense in how items are exchanged, and it feels like more of an accomplishment to do so, and even more so if you figure out how to automate it. However I have no idea how EE is chemistry. That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Based on previous a previous reply, I'm assuming it's alchemy from some anime show. Again, never watched anime, thought it was weird, but things in anime aren't real.

You must not bet very well versed in science or history. Alchemy is/was very real, or at least they thought it was in the early days of science. People toiled for years often in secrecy from fear of death other people's belief of a way to turn ordinary things into gold. Kings had people killed over the fear of this. All because of a misunderstanding of science and the natural world. It IS a science though.

 

[superriku11]

Oi now, have you people even played EE3 yet? (didn't even think it was released, is it?) without giving the mod a good playing through, don't be so quick to say you won't use it, in fact, there will be plenty of servers not using it, because Calclavia won't have it (i don't think anyways) And more packs are coming, besides a few Ftb ultimate packs will probably have the stones' crafting recipes off. So no worries there, it's not like the nuke that can very very easily ruin your day, with little effort.

And for the record, i usually have more diamonds mid game than iron, so i doubt many people will be transmuting iron to diamonds

Well perhaps my luck is terrible. But whenever I mine, I typically find 10x more Iron than Diamonds. And I do use good mining techniques. I can spend an hour and only find about 9 Diamonds. 10x more Iron may be a bit of an exaggeration, but I usually go back to my base with multiple stacks of Iron, usually around 5 if I pick a cave clean, and about 3 - 6 diamonds. I do use Iron a lot faster since so many things require it, but when I want to make that one thing that requires Diamonds, there goes all my Diamonds. Want to make a Quarry? Needs 12 Diamonds. That's likely all I have. Turtles? 3 Diamonds, a good chunk of what I have.

However I like it like that. It's more balanced since it makes automatic things harder to get. The only part I don't like is that crafting Glass Fibre Cable doesn't give as much as I feel like it should. There's too few Diamonds for the amount of cable you get when you craft it and the amount of cable you need for building things. All of my base is literally using Copper or Gold cables.

 

[Narcisism]

Wow, dude. You make an argument FOR GregTech, then turn down that same argument for EE3. At least be fair. Yes, you can mine tons of cobble with a 64x64 quarry. You know what else you can mine a ton of with a 64x64 quarry? Netherrack. And that same amount of Netherrack plus a bit of flint, turns into 8 diamonds. How is that any different from EE3? Also, you say that GregTech adds the same thing as EE3, so why include EE3? Because GT doesn't add the same things. There's SOME overlap, but there's overlap between many of the mods. BuildCraft and RedPower both add pipe-based transportation. We should remove RedPower, because it does the same as something else. EE3 adds the ability to "create" diamonds. So does GregTech. But diamonds are just one example. The goal of EE3 is to let you say "Wow, I sure have a lot of X that I don't need. I wish I could turn it into Y that I do need. Oh wait. I can." You can do diamonds to copper, for example (that's one of my more common ones. I have very little use for diamond, but a TON of use for copper.) It lets you take a ton of stuff you have, then turn it into a little bit of stuff you don't. There's heavy loss, and it's a bit of a tedious process. Not my favorite form of challenge, but if you're comparing to GregTech, it's the same there, too.

And it's not unfair to change iron to gold or iron to diamonds or whatever. You know why? Because you now have diamonds, but you lost a bunch of iron. It's called "Trade". It's just that in this case, you're trading with a pre-made system, rather than a person. How is that unfair? You lose one thing and gain another.

Honestly, I won't even be using EE3 that much, so your last argument is also invalid. If you can mine the materials to convert to diamonds, how is it unfair? Like I said, you lose 32 iron, gain a diamond. Or vice versa. It's not like it's free.