Greg Tech opinion discussions go here

[DoctorOr]

Bold words or not. It's his mod, you're only playing it because he allows you to.

And he's choosing to use that mod to maliciously affect the users game. There is no incompatibility, the mods would interact just fine.

It's his mod, you're only playing it because he allows you to.

Still wrong. I can play it without his permission. I can modify it without his permission. The only permission anybody on this planet needs is to distribute it.

 

[CrissHill]

Yes, he has every right to prevent his mod from loading, but has no right to crash the client. He can easily allow the game to continue loading and not have GT load.

Ah well, he does have the right to do that BUT it is a really stupid move. The right thing to do would be to just force an unload of the mod.

 

[Ashzification]

So let's go over the facts:

• Yes, we all know Greg is Dick. I'm not arguing on that point.

That is entirely subjective, and is in no way a fact. You may believe he is not a nice person, but others will not.

 

[whizzball1]

Hello everyone! I'd like to tell the tale from my side of the story. Whether that's good or bad or it's all complete nonsense is for you to decide.

Early on in the development of TConstruct I made a bunch of modifiers for tools. One of these was the auto-smelt modifier. It seemed quite useless in the face of the Smeltery and other modifiers, so I added a bit of code to make it interact with Fortune. A tool with Fortune III and Auto-Smelt will give you 1-4 materials. Say... iron ingots. Fast-forward a couple months and GregTech adds a bunch of furnace recipes to reverse items.

The exploit should be fairly obvious. Fortune-smelt an iron block and you'll get back 9-36 iron ingots. Rinse and repeat. There was some indirect talk about the interaction though a messenger, but Greg basically called it a bug and thought it should only happen with pickaxes on ores. The modifier is supposed to work on all tools - charcoal and bricks included.

Some amount of time passed. A month, perhaps two. At this point I was getting 3-4 reports a day about people "discovering" the exploit. I added a message to TConstruct about disabling reverse smelting in GregTech. Greg added a full-screen rant about things. A config setting was added to disable the interaction on my end, Greg altered the message on his end, everything seems fine for awhile.

That's the past. It's context for the recent spat, and is a previous incident.

One of the recent updates to GregTech modified vanilla in... undesirable ways. Wood and stone tools have very, very low durability compared to before. Iron tools require hammers and files to make, and those require refined iron. Vanilla wood crafting from logs into planks gives 2 instead of 4, with the caveat that you can get the original 4 with a new saw. I added some new recipes to the game to restore the wood crafting. Greg goes and... crashes the game. Purposefully, with full knowledge, crashes the game.

The crash happened when a recipe was detected outside his config. The wood nerf was forced ON while TConstruct was installed, so the crash was guaranteed to happen.

I removed the wood recipes from TConstruct and told Greg to remove his crashing code, as well as all of the other code he had regarding TConstruct. He also had something called the "Pumpkin of Shame" that would constantly replace my helmet item, breaking the game for me personally with his mod installed. Everything regarding the crash has been undone, I'm pretty sure, but... well.

I do apologize for any trouble I've caused. TConstruct and GregTech do not play well together, and I would never recommend them in the same pack. I would rather people play the game however they like though, and I hope people can enjoy themselves in the future.

That message has THIRTY-SEVEN FLIPPING LIKES.
That's better than KL.

I agree with most of those points, except for TiC and GT not together. I, personally, absolutely love Gregtech and TiC. Recent changes have become pretty amazing. MDiyo, your Smelteries are the best idea ever.
Greg, on the other hand, that way of making Iron Tools actually makes some sense. I can see that Greg is trying to make the game more realistic, and I applaud that. And if you don't like that specific section, there are configs. I also understand that it is quite a tussle for people to have to change those configs and distribute them on servers. I understand this also. A few fixes for this are as follows:

Greg ships different versions of his mod that make the default configs different, like an easy mode version.

Greg asks for opinions of what an Easy Mode for his mod would be and ships all related options into one specific config option, like Forestry's config. For example, he could have CUSTOM as you make your own, EASY as all the options put at the easiest level, NORMAL as putting certain options in hard mode, but not real game changers like the Wood thing and the Iron Pick thing and such and such. HARD would be enabling more hard configs, and HARDCORE would be the act of setting every config to its hardest possible level.

FTB team makes a plugin that creates "Server Configs." This will ship the configs of the server you are on into a special folder for that specific host, and enable those configs. It would take a bit longer to join new servers or join a server that has changed some configs, but it would still work, and would be easiest on the Players. It might be a bit harder on the FTB team though.

And those are my opinions on this post. As I read through the other posts, I will put my hopefully flameless opinions on them.

 

[Itaros]

Yes, he has every right to prevent his mod from loading, but has no right to crash the client. He can easily allow the game to continue loading and not have GT load.

Remove it and load the game. What the problem, really? Or you need a special Ignore/Retry/Cancel dialog from developers doing this for fun, not money? I mean this behaviour would requare from Greg to mess with Forge modloading mechanism.

True, but at one point folks thought RP wasn't replaceable, I firmly believe that any functionality that GT adds could be added by some other mod down the road. If folks would like to continue to use GT, let them install it themselves. After all, that is often the mantra of the GT zealots, that using it is completely optional, so in my opinion it ought to be made so.

If the mod isn't removed, it's sending a loud and clear message that any type of egregious behavior will be tolerated. My main concern is precedence, doing stuff like this should result in more than a polite conversation, it's an assault on end users and that simply can't be allowed.

Removal will assault GT end-users, so you are not better than him in that case

 

[lolpierandom]

Ah well, he does have the right to do that BUT it is a really stupid move. The right thing to do would be to just force an unload of the mod.

Um no, he doesn't have the right to crash the client.

In fact, do tell me where his right to crash the client is?

What are you going to tell me next, he's allowed to look through people's data because they willingly downloaded GT?

Remove it and load the game. What the problem, really? Or you need a special Ignore/Retry/Cancel dialog from developers doing this for fun, not money? I mean this behaviour would requare from Greg to mess with Forge modloading mechanism.



Removal will assault GT end-users, so you are not better than him in that case

Except that being concerned about this sort of bullshit happening again is a legitimate issue for the FTB pack creators? Wyld certainly has show his annoyance at this several times- and it doesn't help that Greg blames the crashing on other people when he deliberately causes it.

 

[Bellaabzug21]

That is entirely subjective, and is in no way a fact. You may believe he is not a nice person, but others will not.

I think that at this point, most FTB users can agree with that. The only people that seem to be disagreeing on that point are his fanboys.

 

[eragonawesome]

I should have clarified. By modpack I meant a public modpack like FTB. He does definitely want to have it in the custom private one he is playing himself. He also doesn't hate other mods, he just wants them to fit nicely with the mindset he uses for GT and occasionally changes them to do that.

ftb is not a mod pack, it is a launcher and community, that started out as a skyblock competition map with a few mods in it, also, you really need to stop talking, you are sounding more and more like you would blindly follow greg even if he made a mod that installed an actual virus on your computer

 

[CrissHill]

And he's choosing to use that mod to maliciously affect the users game. There is no incompatibility, the mods would interact just fine.

Still wrong. I can play it without his permission. I can modify it without his permission. The only permission anybody on this planet needs is to distribute it.

Yes, but what i meant is that he doesn't need to be distributing the mod to you if he doesn't want to. Everything he does in the mod are only subject to Mojang's TOS. and really ... nothing he has done here conflicts with that TOS.. throwing an exception when in loading phase is not against their TOS. If GT would however break minecraft or parts of minecraft intentionally.. that would be.

 

[Ashzification]

I think that at this point, most FTB users can agree with that. The only people that seem to be disagreeing on that point are his fanboys.

See my previous post about liking it for difficulty. You might not like his mod, or what his mod does, but that does not mean you can go around calling him names, and stating your opinions are fact.

 

[Anikdote]

Removal will assault GT end-users, so you are not better than him in that case

Hardly a fair comparison. In one instance we have an intentional assault, on the other you can still add it to the pack if you like. Choice vs. no choice, pretty simple.

 

[lolpierandom]

Hardly a fair comparison. In one instance we have an intentional assault, on the other you can still add it to the pack if you like. Choice vs. no choice, pretty simple.

Exactly. You couldn't run that version of GT with that version of TiC. Greg threw a hissy fit and made it impossible without modifying GT itself (which he wouldn't be happy with either).

You could still add GT manually if they dropped it from the pack.

 

[eragonawesome]

People sometimes make errors, wrong decisions. It is ok that Greg crashed game intentionally, but if he will do this again without giving a note on a community responce, this will be a final point of this, I think. GregTech is a really good mod, which I prefer as main one in my playsessions. It is well designed, and I have the same meaning about new recipes: I find them more intuitive to remember. I personnaly think that Greg is so curious about keeping his mod safe from any outside intervention, especially when a lot of people say bad things about GT. Like a mother does to protect her child from making mistakes. People and their choises differ: GT is a big overhaul mod which becomed a symbol of FTB to me - a miracle of integration. I think that GT should be kept included in FTB, but can be prized with the enable\disable checkbox in a pack configs to remove tension between players who love GT and who hate it.

I agree that modpacks should have 2 versions one with gt and one without it, that would propably resolve most of this, but it is not ok for a coder to willingly and knowingly crash the end user client, this is called malware and is typically considered illegal

 

[CrissHill]

Um no, he doesn't have the right to crash the client.

In fact, do tell me where his right to crash the client is?

What are you going to tell me next, he's allowed to look through people's data because they willingly downloaded GT?


Except that being concerned about this sort of bullshit happening again is a legitimate issue for the FTB pack creators? Wyld certainly has show his annoyance at this several times- and it doesn't help that Greg blames the crashing on other people when he deliberately causes it.

Do you really think that GT is the only mod that uses runtime exceptions to halt loading process? PLEASE.

 

[eragonawesome]

Talking about that, I hope mDiyo can clarify if he at any point offered to add a config to TiC to disable the fortunesmelting or just requested greg to change his recipes. Currently we only have what greg stated about it and it was that mdiyo didn't offer the config and added it much later.

to dissable fortune smelting, dont add it to the tool... you really need to read the whole thing dude, it was not a machine, it was the fortune enchant and the autosmelt enchant on a tool at the same time

 

[Bellaabzug21]

See my previous post about liking it for difficulty. You might not like his mod, or what his mod does, but that does not mean you can go around calling him names, and stating your opinions are fact.

Fair enough.

Ah well, he does have the right to do that BUT it is a really stupid move. The right thing to do would be to just force an unload of the mod.

What exactly gives him the right to maliciously attack another mod?

 

[Itaros]

Hardly a fair comparison. In one instance we have an intentional assault, on the other you can still add it to the pack if you like. Choice vs. no choice, pretty simple.

Yes, but this will remove the legacy, breaking chain of succession in versions, making my choice of pack invalid, for example. The optimal way was stated here: 2 packs - with and without GT, as a warning to Greg and as a lesser evil to users.

 

[Bellaabzug21]

Do you really think that GT is the only mod that uses runtime exceptions to halt loading process? PLEASE.

Actually right now, yes it is. Any other mod that does such a thing does not do it intentionally. With the exception of BTW, sadly.

 

[Alex Cubed]

Nooo don't close this thread. How else am I supposed to watch all the drama of GT in one convenient place? I haven't seen so much drama since

I'm kinda sad that GregTech is making these changes. I'm kinda sad that the FTB community is split by this single mod(I mean really, what other mod EE23 has this kind of divide?).

I wish GT would be more like an addon so more people could enjoy the cool stuff it adds without having to be bothered with all of the massive nerfs. GT stuff should be expensive, and only GT stuff. Shame it's turning into a Minecraft conversion.

I spend more time reading about Minecraft than I do playing. That makes me kinda sad.

 

[CrissHill]

What exactly gives him the right to maliciously attack another mod?

Nothing. because he didnt. Mdiyo did.