FTB - Curse Update

Kaelten

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Are you using Spotify? Skype? VLC? Maybe Quassel? Go checkout some screenshots if not. Take a look. They are all written in Qt.

Who has said that using something like Qt or wxWidgets can't provide a native experience? This is a good comparison of what Qt looks like on different platforms, out-of-the-box. Qt has it's own renderer for most of the themes (some are native), wxWidgets completely uses the different native toolkits.
Spotify is probably one of the best cross platform apps I've seen, hands down.

As far as Skype, they're not even remotely the same app on Mac/Windows.
 

02JanDal

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Same on Linux (actually Skype is rather terrible on Linux), so it might be a bad example. But it still should show enough that using a crossplatform toolkit not necessarily means non-native look.
 

Kaelten

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Skype is just rather terrible...
I think you nailed it on that.

Same on Linux (actually Skype is rather terrible on Linux), so it might be a bad example. But it still should show enough that using a crossplatform toolkit not necessarily means non-native look.
The differences can be more than just skin deep too. Using native technologies with the v6 Client that CurseVoice is built into we've managed to get cpu usage down to 0-3% on average, even with half a dozen people in a call session. Compare that to say... dropbox for example, which will happily peg a core because as much as I love python (one of my favorite languages period) it's not the best tool for indexing and syncing files. It however is cross platform and relatively easy to work in.
 
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Captainnana

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The differences can be more than just skin deep too. Using native technologies with the v6 Client that CurseVoice is built into we've managed to get cpu usage down to 0-3% on average, even with half a dozen people in a call session. Compare that to say... dropbox for example, which will happily peg a core because as much as I love python (one of my favorite languages period) it's not the best tool for indexing and syncing files. It however is cross platform and relatively easy to work in.
I was on this cool site before called google which basically index's web pages I heard it was made in python and it seemed to do a fairly good job
 

02JanDal

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Source for Qt being slower/more CPU intensive than something else?
You are comparing apples and oranges; Qt is C++, so it cannot be compared to Python (except if you use Qt bindings for Python of course).
 

gallowglass

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It is pretty clear this isn't going anywhere. It seems like a Linux client is unlikely. If that becomes the case then I can tell you how this will play out in my house. Right now there are three people playing FTB; me and my two older sons. I run Linux, they run Windows. In the absence of a Linux client I will have to figure out some other way to run FTB or move to something else. My sons will do so as well. So by losing the Linux client, you didn't just lose one set of eyeballs (or whatever you are using to monetize this deal) you lose three. And I imagine I am not alone. It may be that lots of FTB servers are run on Linux and admin'd by Linux users who are consequently generating a lot of Windows FTB downloads. When 1 Linux user leaves, dozens of Windows users might follow.
 
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Kaelten

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I was on this cool site before called google which basically index's web pages I heard it was made in python and it seemed to do a fairly good job
My illustration was just showing that technology choices can be more than cosmetic. Comparing any desktop application to googles infrastructure (which has spawned revolutions in datacenter design, data storage, and parallel processing) is such a huge troll...
 

02JanDal

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My illustration was just showing that technology choices can be more than cosmetic. Comparing any desktop application to googles infrastructure (which has spawned revolutions in datacenter design, data storage, and parallel processing) is such a huge troll...
Yes, but again, who said Qt is so much slower than other toolkits?

(also you brought up the python thing)
 

Kaelten

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It is pretty clear this isn't going anywhere. It seems like a Linux client is unlikely. If that becomes the case then I can tell you how this will play out in my house. Right now there are three people playing FTB; me and my two older sons. I run Linux, they run Windows. In the absence of a Linux client I will have to figure out some other way to run FTB or move to something else. My sons will do so as well. So by losing the Linux client, you didn't just lose one set of eyeballs (or whatever you are using to monetize this deal) you lose three. And I imagine I am not alone. It may be that lots of FTB servers are run on Linux and admin'd by Linux users who are consequently generating a lot of Windows FTB downloads. When 1 Linux user leaves, dozens of Windows users might follow.
I'm just not being fake with you guys. I know that right now I can't commit to doing a native linux client, so I'm telling you that. I'm actually very interested trying to make a case to support Linux, but right now I know I don't have enough ammo to make it. Help me get it. :)
 
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02JanDal

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I'm just not being fake with you guys. I know that right now I can't commit to doing a native linux client, so I'm telling you that. I'm actually very interested trying to make a case to support Linux, but right now I know I don't have enough ammo to make it. Help me get it. :)
I've given you some several times: Use this

P.S. I appreciate that you're open like this though, even though I'm less happy about the info.
 

gallowglass

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I'm just not being fake with you guys. I know that right now I can't commit to doing a native linux client, so I'm telling you that. I'm actually very interested trying to make a case to support Linux, but right now I know I don't have enough ammo to make it. Help me get it. :)
No, I appreciate your honesty. The only ammo I have to give you is the argument above. If you don't have a Linux client you are going to lose three users in my house. Linux might only be 0.1% or 1% or whatever, but if their movements dictate the movements of others, there might be a multiplicative effect here that you should try to account for. I do not have access to any data that would confirm or deny that hypothesis though. I just know about my house.
 
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Ryiah

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I know that right now I can't commit to doing a native linux client, so I'm telling you that.
So what exactly is the benefit of going to Curse? Because right now I feel like I should start considering alternatives for FTB. I've never been impressed with anything Curse takes over and it looks like that won't change this time either.
 
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Kaelten

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P.S. I appreciate that you're open like this though, even though I'm less happy about the info.
I appreciate the appreciation :)

I'm not going to BS you guys or lie to anyone. I think we have the best hope of doing things right by working together as a community. I'd rather give the realties now than lead people on. What I can say is that I want to find a way to support linux users. I'm not sure what it will be, if we can justify a full client I'll fight for it tooth an nail internally. Right now I think it'll end up having to be a lesser option, and I'm eager to finding a solution that doesn't completely abandon the Linux user base.[DOUBLEPOST=1394652052][/DOUBLEPOST]
So what exactly is the benefit of going to Curse? Because right now I feel like I should start considering alternatives to FTB. I've yet to be impressed with anything Curse takes over.
What would you like to know?

No, I appreciate your honesty. The only ammo I have to give you is the argument above. If you don't have a Linux client you are going to lose three users in my house. Linux might only be 0.1% or 1% or whatever, but if their movements dictate the movements of others, there might be a multiplicative effect here that you should try to account for. I do not have access to any data that would confirm or deny that hypothesis though. I just know about my house.
Thanks, and the feedback is definitely appreciated.
 

02JanDal

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I can just continue: Use Qt, or some similar toolkit. If the others have complaints about it I'll be happy to help you answer questions.

On a somewhat related note; do you see the possibility of having the new client be opensource?
Also; have you considered building the new client on top of some already existing client (would bring in a launcher, which you don't seem to want, though) like MultiMC etc.?
 

Ryiah

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What would you like to know?
It just doesn't seem like there is any benefit. I'm not a fan of having to install a third-party program to run something that could just as easily be stand-alone. Let alone lose functionality as it becomes part of that third-party program. I don't run Linux myself, but Linux support is pretty much a given in the Minecraft community and I just don't see any benefits coming that make up for it. The Curse community would be about it and that doesn't hold any interest for me. I barely partake in this community as it is.
 

Kaelten

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I can just continue: Use Qt, or some similar toolkit. If the others have complaints about it I'll be happy to help you answer questions.

On a somewhat related note; do you see the possibility of having the new client be opensource?
Also; have you considered building the new client on top of some already existing client (would bring in a launcher, which you don't seem to want, though) like MultiMC etc.?
It's no small matter for us to switch development to Qt or similar, and I realistically don't think that'll happen despite the fact that Qt looks to have been greatly improved since we last investigated it. I think it's also safe to say that the Curse Client will never be open sourced.

On the later point Mojang has been very explicit that they don't want us to make and provide a launcher. Our client will install the packs and then launch the official Mojang launcher.
 
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PhilHibbs

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It just doesn't seem like there is any benefit. I'm not a fan of having to install a third-party program to run something that could just as easily be stand-alone. Let alone lose functionality as it becomes part of that third-party program
The FTB launcher is already a third party program. Slowpoke is taking the decision to move from the current dev model to Curse. Has anyone heard from the current launcher devs? Are they happy to be free of that burden?
 

02JanDal

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It's no small matter for us to switch development to Qt or similar, and I realistically don't think that'll happen despite the fact that Qt looks to have been greatly improved since we last investigated it.
I can see the point in switching toolkit being hard. I still believe it'd save time/money in the long run, as you only have to write the code once and not multiple times, plus you can benefit from the other Qt stuff.
Of course hard for me to say for sure, but I'd also say getting started with Qt is really easy.

Again, remember things like the SteamOS, what would happen if you have to rewrite loads of code in a few years because you chose native toolkits?

I think it's also safe to say that the Curse Client will never be open sourced.
While I don't see what would be negative about that I see the point.

On the later point Mojang has been very explicit that they don't want us to make and provide a launcher. Our client will install the packs and then launch the official Mojang launcher.
I guessed so.