FTB - Curse Update

Nerixel

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I'd say my main concern is OS support. I use OSX, and plan on using Linux once I get my new machine. I kind of need to know what modpacks there are on the launcher/client/thing for part of my "job".
'Twas addressed on the FTB Reddit :p
Captainnana said:
Modpacks will be able to all be updated without curse premium, there will be no restrictions on bandwidth. Mac will be supported in time and we want to come up with something for linux. If you look at the post we are waiting for feature parity with the current FTB Launcher which means it will need mac, linux and windows support in one way or another before we can switch to it. The way I see it even if only 10% of users use mac/linux that means 1 of your 10 friends can't play which would make the game unattractive for the whole group.
Note specifically the, "we are waiting for feature parity with the current FTB Launcher which means it will need mac, linux and windows support in one way or another before we can switch to it.", which the people on Reddit seemed to miss :p
 
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FyberOptic

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I'm really mixed on this, and for one reason in particular: Curse isn't really a community.

Back when I wanted to play Skyrim mods I used to find most of them through Curse. I'd download them, play them, delete them if I didn't like them or they didn't work properly. It was a very impersonal thing. I never knew who made them, never had any motivation to contact them, or even really thought about the person behind it. It was just a site to obtain things, and the comment section was just an area to check to see if someone else had had a similar problem as me. Thinking back on it, I'm sure that there was probably a forum community somewhere, where someone proudly uploaded their mods and got the kinds of feedback I'm referring to. But I never saw it, and never had to see it, because I'd already gotten what I needed from Curse.

I feel like I'm on the other side of that situation now. I've had mods on Curse for months and in that time I've received exactly two comments. Other mods, including very popular ones like TE, have maybe a dozen comments. I think other mods have completely disabled the ability for comments entirely. But in those same months that my mods have been on Curse I've received dozens and dozens of forum replies and direct messages from people on the Minecraft Forums, of everything from questions, suggestions, bug reports, and very-appreciated praise. And there's also the possibility for a donation, even if that's a rarity.

My concern is mostly that when you put a launcher in front of people which can get them any mod they want by typing into a search box, and that this kind of thing becomes the prominent method of distributing mods, then what reason would most people have to interact with modders or the community anymore? Why bother reporting a bug when you can uninstall the mod and try another, or simply wait until it updates the mod for you automatically? Why bother thanking someone (or donating, looking for a Patreon account, etc) when there doesn't really appear to be a human behind it?

I mean, I recognize that modpacks have already reduced some of the community interaction and recognition from modders, but I also recognize the importance modpacks have in allowing people to play the game and discover mods. I just have to question how far we're willing to go for the player's convenience if it's at a continued cost to the modder in exchange. The community is probably my biggest motivation to make mods, and I wouldn't want to trade that for a handful of Curse reward points.
 

SatanicSanta

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'Twas addressed on the FTB Reddit :p

Note specifically the, "we are waiting for feature parity with the current FTB Launcher which means it will need mac, linux and windows support in one way or another before we can switch to it.", which the people on Reddit seemed to miss :p
>Reddit
lolok
 
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Sacheverell

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My concern is mostly that when you put a launcher in front of people which can get them any mod they want by typing into a search box, and that this kind of thing becomes the prominent method of distributing mods, then what reason would most people have to interact with modders or the community anymore? Why bother reporting a bug when you can uninstall the mod and try another, or simply wait until it updates the mod for you automatically? Why bother thanking someone (or donating, looking for a Patreon account, etc) when there doesn't really appear to be a human behind it?

I mean, I recognize that modpacks have already reduced some of the community interaction and recognition from modders, but I also recognize the importance modpacks have in allowing people to play the game and discover mods. I just have to question how far we're willing to go for the player's convenience if it's at a continued cost to the modder in exchange. The community is probably my biggest motivation to make mods, and I wouldn't want to trade that for a handful of Curse reward points.
Unless I'm mistaken, modders' involvement with the community has never been about the method of distribution. There are tons of places and methods for modders to interact with users, it's simply a matter of using them. We can't (and don't want to) stop you from interacting with people! :D
 
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FyberOptic

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Unless I'm mistaken, modders' involvement with the community has never been about the method of distribution.
There's still quite a few modders who require permissions on mods to be distributed in packs, or for redistribution in general. Some of those are part of FTB if I'm not mistaken. I've personally dropped permissions requirements since they became more trouble than they're worth to me, but I don't speak for the majority. I think method of distribution will always be a concern for much of the community, for various reasons. I honestly don't know how FTB (or other groups using this new platform) will deal with the modders who may have provided permission in the past but refuse to give it for packs distributed on Curse.

There are tons of places and methods for modders to interact with users, it's simply a matter of using them. We can't (and don't want to) stop you from interacting with people! :D
I feel like that's a way of saying that I have to seek out a community to get feedback, rather than the community seeking out me as it's currently done.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Curse or entirely oppose a distribution system. I just hope that it doesn't simply become a launcher slapped into their existing system, because it's just not very personable as it stands. If it were to become the prominent platform, which is obviously the goal, then anyone choosing not to use it would be at a disadvantage. And we heard before that Lex was also somehow involved, which might imply Forge may also be adapted to use this new system somehow, potentially putting those choosing not to participate at a further disadvantage. There's just not enough information, a lot of speculation, and genuine concern. I wouldn't want this to be a rift in the community.
 

Kaelten

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Looking at curse premium it involves cloud sync/backup of your world.

But you talking about cosmetics does not mean that the texture pack for specific modpacks will be locked away under premium right?
Texture packs will always be treated with the same respect as mods and mod packs.

Too bad the Curse client is only for windows :(
We have plans to support Mac later this year, FTB support will definitely be on the feature list.

I'm really mixed on this, and for one reason in particular: Curse isn't really a community.

Back when I wanted to play Skyrim mods I used to find most of them through Curse. I'd download them, play them, delete them if I didn't like them or they didn't work properly. It was a very impersonal thing. I never knew who made them, never had any motivation to contact them, or even really thought about the person behind it. It was just a site to obtain things, and the comment section was just an area to check to see if someone else had had a similar problem as me. Thinking back on it, I'm sure that there was probably a forum community somewhere, where someone proudly uploaded their mods and got the kinds of feedback I'm referring to. But I never saw it, and never had to see it, because I'd already gotten what I needed from Curse.

I feel like I'm on the other side of that situation now. I've had mods on Curse for months and in that time I've received exactly two comments. Other mods, including very popular ones like TE, have maybe a dozen comments. I think other mods have completely disabled the ability for comments entirely. But in those same months that my mods have been on Curse I've received dozens and dozens of forum replies and direct messages from people on the Minecraft Forums, of everything from questions, suggestions, bug reports, and very-appreciated praise. And there's also the possibility for a donation, even if that's a rarity.

My concern is mostly that when you put a launcher in front of people which can get them any mod they want by typing into a search box, and that this kind of thing becomes the prominent method of distributing mods, then what reason would most people have to interact with modders or the community anymore? Why bother reporting a bug when you can uninstall the mod and try another, or simply wait until it updates the mod for you automatically? Why bother thanking someone (or donating, looking for a Patreon account, etc) when there doesn't really appear to be a human behind it?

I mean, I recognize that modpacks have already reduced some of the community interaction and recognition from modders, but I also recognize the importance modpacks have in allowing people to play the game and discover mods. I just have to question how far we're willing to go for the player's convenience if it's at a continued cost to the modder in exchange. The community is probably my biggest motivation to make mods, and I wouldn't want to trade that for a handful of Curse reward points.
I hear your concerns. My goal is to help build the community for FTB and mine craft modding in general. I'm very excited to be back involved with this side of our company. :)
 

SatanicSanta

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We have plans to support Mac later this year, FTB support will definitely be on the feature list.

I hear your concerns. My goal is to help build the community for FTB and mine craft modding in general. I'm very excited to be back involved with this side of our company.:)
And how about a Linux client?

The community has already been built, it's just being expanded ;)
 
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Kaelten

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And how about a Linux client?

The community has already been built, it's just being expanded ;)
Currently we have no commitment to having the client for this. Some current thoughts for this include a one click download of the entire mod pack, or potentially exposing a limited API for end users to support linux. I'm going to be looking at the statistics to see if I can go to bat for the community and try to get more done officially on our side, but regardless I don't plan to leave those guys completely in the cold.
 

PhilHibbs

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I'm really mixed on this, and for one reason in particular: Curse isn't really a community.
Back when I wanted to play Skyrim mods I used to find most of them through Curse. I'd download them, play them, delete them if I didn't like them or they didn't work properly. It was a very impersonal thing. I never knew who made them, never had any motivation to contact them, or even really thought about the person behind it.
I don't know Skyrim, but is it a bit like WoW in that the mods just tweak the UI? I doubt that there is a need for such a concept as a modpack, or extensive functionality in the mods that needs balancing or community feedback to the extent that Minecraf mods do. Communities form when there is a need for them.

Oh, and the official Minecraft Forums are Curse, so there is a precedent for Curse hosting a community.
 

02JanDal

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Currently we have no commitment to having the client for this.
Creating a program that runs on multiple platforms (like Windows, Linux, Mac) is so easy I'm unable to see the reason for not doing it.
Some current thoughts for this include a one click download of the entire mod pack, or potentially exposing a limited API for end users to support linux.
"limited API"... So you are currently doing something that will more or less be a requirement for big parts of the community (at least the modding side of it) and are more or less going to lock it down? I'd really expect there to be a proper, well designed API for something like this. I'd also expect an API to be available at least a month or two before the release of your new client.
 
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Kaelten

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I don't know Skyrim, but is it a bit like WoW in that the mods just tweak the UI? I doubt that there is a need for such a concept as a modpack, or extensive functionality in the mods that needs balancing or community feedback to the extent that Minecraf mods do. Communities form when there is a need for them.

Oh, and the official Minecraft Forums are Curse, so there is a precedent for Curse hosting a community.
Skyrim is a lot more in-depth than WoW add ons really. Intensely so.... :)

Creating a program that runs on multiple platforms (like Windows, Linux, Mac) is so easy I'm unable to see the reason for not doing it.

"limited API"... So you are currently doing something that will more or less be a requirement for big parts of the community (at least the modding side of it) and are more or less going to lock it down? I'd really expect there to be a proper, well designed API for something like this. I'd also expect an API to be available at least a month or two before the release of your new client.
Right now it's all in the discussion phases between myself, Slow and his team.

As far as multi-app clients: We've found repeatedly in the past that if you try to support multiple OSes with one app, they end up all being subpar or even just straight crappy. If we support an OS we're going to want to do a native experience that treats that OS the best as we can. Unfortunately there are realities of the costs of doing such. Initial user base projections for FTB have it as little as sub-1% of the users, if that proves to be inaccurate I'm more than will to go fight internally for better support. :)
 

PDDnox

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I hope that there will be the devide between FTB and Curse as Jaded mentioned today.
FTB keeps an i on everyone. Also the kids.

It's good to be able to play both modpacks.
Altough FTB is more my kind of thing. The feel suits me.

Happy to hear that Jaded is so tight on it. :)
 
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02JanDal

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Right now it's all in the discussion phases between myself, Slow and his team.

As far as multi-app clients: We've found repeatedly in the past that if you try to support multiple OSes with one app, they end up all being subpar or even just straight crappy. If we support an OS we're going to want to do a native experience that treats that OS the best as we can. Unfortunately there are realities of the costs of doing such. Initial user base projections for FTB have it as little as sub-1% of the users, if that proves to be inaccurate I'm more than will to go fight internally for better support. :)
I see the point about there being only a small amount of Linux users. You're aware of the SteamOS? What do you think it'll do to the Linux-Windows ratio in the gaming community in the next few years?

About it being hard to write an app that works on multiple OSes with only one code base: What GUI framework are you planning to use? As long as you use one of these, or Java or similar, cross-platform support is really easy. I can personally recommend Qt. You know about MultiMC? It's a Minecraft launcher that provides pre-built packages for Windows, Linux and Mac, and except for some platform specific details most (99.9%) of the code is the same for all platforms.
 
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gallowglass

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As far as multi-app clients: We've found repeatedly in the past that if you try to support multiple OSes with one app, they end up all being subpar or even just straight crappy.
This statement is demonstrably false since the current launcher works perfectly well on all three platforms as far as I know. I personally run it on Windows (for my sons) and Linux (for me and our server), and I know that works. Also, the actual game (and all of its mods) run perfectly well on all three platforms. So the launcher/app is more complicated than the actual game?

And really, what is this launcher or app doing? Downloading some files (in a more clever way than it currently does maybe) and copying them to various locations on a local machine.

Really the only thing people (FTB users) have asked for in this whole deal is that it work on Windows, Mac, and Linux, just like it does now. A lot of us are even cool with ads and what have you. So the ONE thing we want, that is super easy to do, since there are already multiple launchers that do it, and the game itself already does it, is something Curse can't commit to? Color me unimpressed.
 

Kaelten

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I see the point about there being only a small amount of Linux users. You're aware of the SteamOS? What do you think it'll do to the Linux-Windows ratio in the gaming community in the next few years?
I'm very aware of SteamOS, and I can't wait to see what it'll do to the balance. I'm an avid Mac user personally (ask Jaded, she loves to give me hell for my iMacs), and I love what Steam for Mac has done to help prove OS X as a valid gaming platform. I think it'll be great for everyone if things do become more balanced between the three platforms.

About it being hard to write an app that works on multiple OSes with only one code base: What GUI framework are you planning to use? As long as you use one of these, or Java or similar, cross-platform support is really easy. I can personally recommend Qt. You know about MultiMC? It's a Minecraft launcher that provides pre-built packages for Windows, Linux and Mac, and except for some platform specific details most (99.9%) of the code is the same for all platforms.
The UI will be native on each platform. WPF on windows and Cocoa on Mac.
 

02JanDal

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The UI will be native on each platform. WPF on windows and Cocoa on Mac.
Why not use a toolkit that can abstract away the platform differences?

As gallowglass said, why do you seem to have such a huge problem with crossplatform support when it is so simple to do?
 

gallowglass

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The UI will be native on each platform. WPF on windows and Cocoa on Mac.
Why not use a toolkit that can abstract away the platform differences?

As gallowglass said, why do you seem to have such a huge problem with crossplatform support when it is so simple to do?
It is my understanding that something like wxWidgets would present natively on each platform from one code base for example. One of the requirements of this project (a new FTB launcher/app/thing) is that it be cross platform. If you are picking a development model (WPF code on Windows, Cocoa on Mac, who-gives-a-s**t on Linux) that cannot easily deliver on that requirement, I am sorry, but you are doing it wrong. Not every fastener is a nail, and a hammer is not the best tool for every job. Pick the fastener and tool you need for the project after looking at the requirements, don't pick the tool first and wonder why it doesn't work.
 
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Kaelten

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Why not use a toolkit that can abstract away the platform differences?

As gallowglass said, why do you seem to have such a huge problem with crossplatform support when it is so simple to do?
It's our opinion that to provide the best experience for each audience it's best to make a native UI/UX. It may be easier on the developers in some ways to make a cross platform one, but many times that can leave you trapped by the lowest common denominator, and we want to have the best experience for the users of our supported OSes. I know not everyone will agree with our stance on this, but that's the honest truth.[DOUBLEPOST=1394648487][/DOUBLEPOST]
It is my understanding that something like wxWidgets would present natively on each platform from one code base for example. One of the requirements of this project (a new FTB launcher/app/thing) is that it be cross platform. If you are picking a development model (WPF code on Windows, Cocoa on Mac, who-gives-a-s**t on Linux) that cannot easily deliver on that requirement, I am sorry, but you are doing it wrong. Not every fastener is a nail, and a hammer is not the best tool for every job. Pick the fastener and tool you need for the project after looking at the requirements, don't pick the tool first and wonder why it doesn't work.
Version 3 of the CurseClient was actually based on wxWidgets, and we investigated/prototyped Qt for version 4. Our opinions on native support was not a stance we came to arbitrarily I assure you.
 

02JanDal

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Are you using Spotify? Skype? VLC? Maybe Quassel? Go checkout some screenshots if not. Take a look. They are all written in Qt.

Who has said that using something like Qt or wxWidgets can't provide a native experience? This is a good comparison of what Qt looks like on different platforms, out-of-the-box. Qt has it's own renderer for most of the themes (some are native), wxWidgets completely uses the different native toolkits.
 
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