Forge and Nova

Apparently I own this thread now...Is NOVA a good thing?


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goreae

Ultimate Murderous Fiend
Nov 27, 2012
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Raxacoricofallapatorius
You're close. NOVA wasn't a Forge fork, it was an entirely separate API which would run on top of Forge (as well as other games eventually). All Asie did was literally change one tiny setting in FML when his API is loaded to ensure Java 8 support. The reaction that followed was nothing short of insanity. What's worse is that Asie predicted that kind of reaction.

Ironically, Lex had less of a reaction when Immibis actually forked Forge, at least to my knowledge. Though I do remember seeing a PR for something which Lex refused to accept for Forge, yet after Immibis pulled that patch into his own fork, Lex then added it to Forge as well. But not before more swearing and complaining.



I can almost guarantee that the community would be full-swing into adopting 1.8 by now if Lex hadn't gone crazy about trying to force models and refusing to re-implement the traditional special renderer registry. This alone scared a lot of devs off, because the amount of work involved in updating increased by an order of magnitude. Migrations to newer versions usually come in waves, and without that initial wave of popular mods taking the plunge, the community tends to just stay where they're at.

There's literally no reason not to have added the traditional rendering back. It's not a technical issue, because the infrastructure is still there, and Mojang uses it themselves. I added it to my own API, and I used ASM to pull off a similar thing in the mods I ported to Forge for 1.8 (something I couldn't do if Lex removed coremods like he threatened). Lex apparently thinks people won't use models if he lets them have it back, which is also ridiculous, because I'm using models in one of my mods despite having the ability to avoid doing so entirely. The one which isn't currently using models will start doing so eventually for certain parts of it, but the focus was to just get it working on 1.8, and to worry about that stuff later. Nothing else about the update to 1.8 is significant enough to have really held the community back this hard. It would have mostly been a bunch of tedious work to adapt to some new methods of doing things.

Besides, who is Lex to say that we have to use models to begin with? That's not his call. He doesn't want people using the tessellator for some crazy reason, even though that's unavoidable for anything else like highlighters or entities. I seriously question whether he even knows what the tessellator is for. Lex complained and complained that modders weren't giving him feedback about Forge, yet he only had himself to blame for the lack of adoption.

I've spent a lot of time working with 1.8, but I have absolutely no problem with the community staying on 1.7.10. It's still the version I play primarily, after all.




Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Even Lex. That just doesn't include rage and verbal abuse.
I thought we were over the whole model thing, but I guess not.
 

keybounce

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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1. @keybounce I was the one who banned you. However, that was done on the orders of the Emperor, who instructed me to "find a way to deal with him once and for all". If you can accept "following orders" as an excuse, I offer my most sincere apologies.

I can. I'm not sure that "ban" is the answer to "find a way to deal with him once and for all", unless that means "stop him from posting". I will post. (see postcount for details :).

That said, I did try to keep my posts on the forge forums to a minimum. I did realize that I was not liked over there; I just did not realize how much I was not liked.
 
C

chbachman

Guest
Pulled from ^

LexManos said:
<@LexManos> Coremods: I fucking hate them, but they are a nessasary evil. Forge will NEVER nativly support sush things as the Rift. As such Coremods to add cool new features are great. However I hate how they are used by some people in the community to screw things up. So, do i wish I could moderate them so that only those who have a good reason to do them use them? Yes. Can I, or will I ever do anything that prevents people from making

<@LexManos> Coremods? No Will I take steps to protect FML from coremodding? Possibly, I have not decided yet, but if I do it will ONLY be FML/Forge as there are proper channels to go through if you want changes made to them.

<@LexManos> BuildCraft: Its a good mod, I was, and still am friends with most of the original members and deal with them on a daily bases. I have a personal issue with Asie because he loves to poke drama out of me. Sadly this last instance I dropped BC's name when I mean Asie/Nova specifically.
 

asiekierka

Over-Achiever
Mod Developer
Dec 24, 2013
555
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I'm apparently a part of a vocal minority... Btw, if you see anyone lying about you in the Forge channel, ping someone that supports you.
I'm still banned. But I don't care, I'm leaving. My reputation has been shattered in the eyes of many and quite frankly I'd love to move on and make my own projects.
 

ljfa

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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I remember those poor NotEnoughMods guys... Thinking they were giving me bad reputation, when I had already removed the thing they were linking to. Made them look stupid, and I got 200% more visits to my GitHub...
You mean to the 404 page?

But seriously, what goes around comes around (in German: As you shout into the forest it echoes back)
When you pull off bullshit like this don't wonder if you get a response.

Am I correct to assume that you dislike NEM because of that incident? Well you were the one who started it. Yes some of the Technic people are disregarding permissions, but often out of ignorance. What you did was openly expressing your hate against them.
Hating is human, but one should deal with it in a mature way.
 
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keybounce

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Jul 29, 2019
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Lex said:
http://pastebin.com/SjNjVe72
I don't care if you guys don't consider it an apology. I apologized multiple times for my drama queen behaviour in early 2014 and every time I hoped I'd become different. But changing fundamental traits of a person, good or bad, is a huge challenge.

Am I defending Lex?

Changing the fundamental traits of a person is not a huge challenge. It is impossible.

If you could do it, you would be a different person.

If you think it is possible for a person to do anything, make any choices, behave in any way; that it is in some way possible for a person to actually think, and make a choice, on every action, on everything that they say, and that they actually have a choice to make, then you are saying that said person has no personality, nothing that can be depended on, pointed to, relied on, etc.; nothing to define that person.

For example, I am a vocal person, with lots of opinions, supported by research and reading. And, I make lots of educated guesses. But where my education is lacking, or my knowledge is bad, my guesses will be very wide off the mark.

When I don't know, I don't guess.
If I guess badly, it means that I don't know what I think I know.
And finding out things that I don't know that I don't know is the most important self-improvement tool I have.

Will this trait change? If it did, I would be a different person -- I would no longer be a person committed to learning, sharing what I have learned, and improving my ability to learn and share.

I don't fault Lex for being a Drama Queen, or a self-declared mule-analogy. I only fault him to the extent that his behavior gets in the way of his getting his stuff done, combined with an inability to recognize his behavior and apologize/fix/clean it up afterwards.

In other worlds, Lex is a Karkat. Not "good", not "bad", just "what is". Water is wet, sky is not walkable, Lex is Karkat.

Karkat learned to be both a great leader, and a great supporter.

===

Is it the case that normal human behavior is to react to what happens? Yes.
Is it the case that most humans can train themselves (or be trained) to break that "input/reaction" behavior, and instead have "input/stop; pause, think; choose an action" behavior? Sure. I'd say that at least 80% of the people can do this at least 80% of the time.

But in that is "choose an action". How much choice does a person actually have, and how much is already determined by culture, environment, upbringing, genetics, etc.?

What I've read, from people that have done the research, is that your choice is less than 5%, may be 2% at best, and may be zero in far more cases than people want to admit.
 

luacs1998

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Jul 29, 2019
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I could waste time writing a psychological deconstruction of Lex's personality as I know him, though I'm not going to do it.

He has quite a few faults as a person, that he has stated himself. However, the problem with him is that he lets these faults adversely affect what he does as lead of Forge. Leading Forge is a very heavy responsibility and I think he has to accept the fact that he will be scrutinized by the general modding public.

Friction like this caused by these faults of his (like the "forge doesnt accept prs, dont bother" sentiment going around now) is what incites drama. While I understand that Lex cannot change this aspect of his, I personally think he needs to adopt a more diplomatic manner of conducting himself as lead dev of Forge.
 

PierceSG

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Jul 29, 2019
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Asie doesn't need to go. Lex doesn't need to be replaced.

There are worse people in more important position in RL and they are still there. As long as the misunderstanding is cleared, there isn't a reason (besides personal reasons) to leave.

This current issue isn't the first, nor will it be the last drama that will happen in the Minecraft circle. People learn to forgive and forget.And as for extremists, they're everywhere. You just have to learn to ignore them I suppose.

All of the above is just my own opinion.
 

NJM1564

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Jul 29, 2019
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Am I defending Lex?

Changing the fundamental traits of a person is not a huge challenge. It is impossible.

If you could do it, you would be a different person.


His behavior has nothing to do with fundamental traits. Fundamental traits are internalized. They have nothing to do with anything that exists out side of his head. That isn't the problem. He can think however he wants.
It's how he interacts with others that is the problem. Those responses always change. Over time.
It's usualy called it's called growing up. Or maturing.