Factorization: Sell me

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Sebyen

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Jul 29, 2019
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Really? Because my setup was using a single pulverizer and it was keeping up with two quarries with simultaneous input, both run at 10 MJ/t.

Ofc I was talking about highly dense ore world quarrying here, In theses worlds you get more ores then you get cobble. 1 pulverizer is more then enough for normal world quarrying.

Maybe if you where using several steve carts and redpower quarries you would need more and at some point the router/advanced machine system would be better bet then TE but that would probably lag horribly on any machine.

The setups with routers and advanced machines could still be useful if you quickly want to macerate/smelt/compress other things then ores though even in a world where your not using dense ore worlds.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Ofc I was talking about highly dense ore world quarrying here, In theses worlds you get more ores then you get cobble. 1 pulverizer is more then enough for normal world quarrying.

Maybe if you where using several steve carts and redpower quarries you would need more and at some point the router/advanced machine system would be better bet then TE but that would probably lag horribly on any machine.

The setups with routers and advanced machines could still be useful if you quickly want to macerate/smelt/compress other things then ores though even in a world where your not using dense ore worlds.
Again, this assumes you have Dense Ores, AND have turned off instability. The former is no guarantee, and the latter is tantamount to cheating. One of the balancing factors of Dense Ores is that it is guaranteed instability. Disable that, and of course it will be OP. In an actual Dense Ores world, you wouldn't be able to set up your quarry, because it would be getting bombed by comets, random explosions, or you wouldn't be able to get it set up due to the blindness/nausea/poison effects always on while in the age.

Dense Ores is not something you will find rapidly, unless you get insanely lucky. It should not be the baseline for comparisons.

Having said that, I think you underestimate TE's ability to process ores. I was using a single pulveriser/smelter setup for ALL ore generation from two quarries, using a Hopper as a buffer. If you split that up so that you get one ore type per system, you will easily be able to keep up with it.

And like I said... it's entirely modular and plug n play, so if you find you need to expand your foundry, you can do that easily.
 

Sebyen

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Jul 29, 2019
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Again, this assumes you have Dense Ores, AND have turned off instability. The former is no guarantee, and the latter is tantamount to cheating. One of the balancing factors of Dense Ores is that it is guaranteed instability. Disable that, and of course it will be OP. In an actual Dense Ores world, you wouldn't be able to set up your quarry, because it would be getting bombed by comets, random explosions, or you wouldn't be able to get it set up due to the blindness/nausea/poison effects always on while in the age.

Dense Ores is not something you will find rapidly, unless you get insanely lucky. It should not be the baseline for comparisons.

Having said that, I think you underestimate TE's ability to process ores. I was using a single pulveriser/smelter setup for ALL ore generation from two quarries, using a Hopper as a buffer. If you split that up so that you get one ore type per system, you will easily be able to keep up with it.

And like I said... it's entirely modular and plug n play, so if you find you need to expand your foundry, you can do that easily.

I think your overestimating TE's ability to process ores.

To show how much you're overestimating TE's abilities and just cause I was curious I made a simple test as you probably know TE can pulverize an ore for the cost of 400 MJ at 4MJ/tick this means at Max capacity a single pulverizer can pulverize 1 ore in 5 seconds or 100 ticks. Now I don't know how fast a rotary macerator can macerate an ore without upgrades but with enough upgrades I'm pretty sure a single rotary macerator can macerate at 1 ore/tick. That's ONE HUNDRED times faster then the pulverizer so for every upgraded rotary macerater you need 100 pulverizers in my picture I have 6 rotary macerators. Could you even imagine a system with 600 pulverizers? It would be enormous.

Now no sane person would have 6 fully upgraded rotary macerators so those are just normal un upgraded so I made a little test to see how big the difference is.

One of my rotary macerators macerated 64 ores in 122 seconds or 1 ore in 1,9 seconds my pulverizer did the same thing in 550 seconds or 1 ore in 8,6 seconds that's roughly 4,5 times faster and would mean my 6 un upgraded rotary maceraters would be equal to 27 pulverizers so my statement of 40-60 was quite a bit to high, but 27 pulverizers would still be quite a bit larger then my system. If your wondering why Im getting 1 ore in 8,6 seconds instead of 1 ore in 5 seconds its probably because my computer is like 5 years old and I got a lower tickrate in my world.
 

Tylor

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Nov 24, 2012
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I'm pretty sure a single rotary macerator can macerate at 1 ore/tick. That's ONE HUNDRED times faster then the pulverizer so for every upgraded rotary macerater you need 100 pulverizers in my picture I have 6 rotary macerators. Could you even imagine a system with 600 pulverizers? It would be enormous.
How do you dig up 20 ores per second?
 

Sebyen

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Jul 29, 2019
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How do you dig up 20 ores per second?
redpower quarry in a dense ore world with around 50 block breakers certainly would be over that.

Couple of quarries can probably do the same thing.

If you think doing that is cheating then you could theoretically do the same thing in a none dense world but the amount of quarries/blockbreakers would be more then any computer/server could handle probably.

Im not saying you need 6 fully upgraded macerators or even 1 for the matter I'm just saying pulverizer's are much less space efficient then rotary macerators.
 

EternalDensity

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How do you dig up 20 ores per second?
Mining laser or Wand of excavation? (I have no idea how fast either of those are.)
Might be able to manage that kind of output in one haul by going to Twilight Forest, at least in a large mound, but then you'd have to survive said large mound, which would likely need Nano+ gear to survive and not need to spend a few hours dying repeatedly until you get your ores and get out.
Peaceful mode! :p
 

noah_wolfe

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Jul 29, 2019
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How do you dig up 20 ores per second?

Technically, 4 quarries at full input will dig that fast. Of course most of that output wont be ore, but based on distribution percentages and tossing frame quarries into the equation you can calculate where that much speed might be beneficial.
 

Mero

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Jul 29, 2019
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The one forestry bag, the adventurer one I believe, is completely customizable. You just have to edit the empty config for that bag.
This allows you to fairly easily have an upgraded bag that holds all the stuff the pre programmed one does.

Sorry about not quoting the post I'm referring to, at work on my phone and it is a major pain to edit quotes.
 

TheNoobYouHate

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Jul 29, 2019
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Not unless you cheat yourself in a Notebook. Finding the Dense Ores symbol can take hundreds of ages to find. Might be able to manage that kind of output in one haul by going to Twilight Forest, at least in a large mound, but then you'd have to survive said large mound, which would likely need Nano+ gear to survive and not need to spend a few hours dying repeatedly until you get your ores and get out.


Legit minecraft world, NO symbols.

rockcutter HELPS alot, but is not needed, D/mining drill/advanced mining drill, power stripmine, OR mass computercraft turtle army for stripemining. I easily get diamonds, along with all ores, EVEN brand new worlds.

power mining is the way to go
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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I don't usually powermine.

But when I do, I use EE2. :rolleyes:
Yea, that Destruction Catalyst was pretty boss. Drop a Void Ring (or just a GoED+BHB) in an Alchemical Bag for maximum effect. One of the reasons that, even without mooshroom farms and such nonsense, it was so pathetically easy to get EMC.

Of course, to power the aforementioned array of rotary macerators, you'd need a minimum of 16 EU/t, for non-upgraded. Fully upgraded, you're looking at High Voltage input, which means either an entire geothermal array, nuclear, or a Fusion Reactor. Wheras my entire setup is running on 4 MJ/t. A single Biogas engine can supply each iteration of the setup.

Furthermore, the infrastructure required now becomes a consideration, because to have your geothermal array, you've pretty much got a DW20-esque nether magma pumping station complete with mystcraft portals and railcraft liquid tanks to keep it pumping. For nuclear... well, that's a whole lot of resources I just don't need to bother with. And of course, the Fusion Reactor is probably one of the most expensive things to get going in the entire FTB mod pack.

Honestly, I'm not sure why they included the version of Advanced Machines that can be upgraded, considering the Induction Furnace doesn't have upgrade slots. My opinion is that they should have only included the version of advanced machines where they run on MV and don't have upgrade slots.
 

Golrith

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In TE, is slag just a waste product that can't be manipulated in anyway so that it can be used for something else?
 

WTFFFS

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In TE, is slag just a waste product that can't be manipulated in anyway so that it can be used for something else?
Normal Slag can be smelted into rockwool, a very wool like substance that sadly can only be used for decorative purposes (unless that's changed), however if you Smelter ores you can get "rich slag" (~33% chance) which if used in place of sand with pulverised ores will triple your output.
 

Remaker

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Jul 29, 2019
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Factorization is an odd duck in that it basically a self-contained mod. Many of the features that seem lackluster in FtB would be very powerful in an otherwise modded game. It still brings a lot to the table, I wouldn't want to play without it. I'd say the thing I like about it the most is that it reduces the number of clicks that you have to do to perform basic actions.

Pocketcrafter: This is a matter of personal taste. Just as you can't understand why some people like it, I can't understand why you don't like it. :p
When I go on expeditions, I'm always running out of simple consumables or discovering that I need some basic tool that I don't have. The normal way to deal with this is to fish a Workbench out of your inventory, put it on your hotbar, place it on the ground, and then click it. When you're done, you either have to retrieve the bench or resign yourself to crafting a new one the next time you need something. With the Pocketcrafter, I just push J (or whatever button you choose to bind), and BAM you're ready to go. Yeah, sometimes you have to dump stuff from your inventory but I mind that less than fiddling with the Workbench. Moreover, the Balance feature is so good that I will frequently use the Pocketcrafter even if I have a 'real' Workbench right in front of me.

Bag of Holding: This thing is great. It seems kind of weird and counter-intuitive until you realize that it was designed to have the minimum number of clicks to operate. Once you understand what it's trying to do, it's amazing. There are no subscreens or extra GUIs to fiddle with, and it works even if it's not on your hotbar. I like it so much that I rebound it to the side button on my mouse. It also effectively expands your hotbar, which is huge.

The best way to use it is to place it on the fourth column from the right in your inventory. That way, it doesn't scramble your inventory every time you use it. If you upgrade it, you want it move it one column to the left for every extra column you get. If you use it in this manner, you will quickly grasp how clean and easy it is to use.

The Bag of Holding isn't an either-or choice with the Forestry bags. You use both. The Forestry bags are great, but they are a huge pain to retrieve things from unless you resign yourself to always having them on your hotbar. The BoH doesn't have the raw storage but lets you instantly access items with a single keystroke without even having to open the inventory screen at all.

Wrath Lamps: The cost is only a problem if you are only making one or two of them. A diamond block makes 12 shards, and each shard can make a lamp. That's not so bad. Wrath Lamps are nice when you want to light a huge area but don't want to clutter it with torches. They are also really good at lighting up jagged cliff faces and other bits of difficult to navigate terrain.

Barrels: These sometimes save space, and sometimes require more space. It depends on what you're sorting. The main appeal for me is the easy labeling and the one-click interface. No searching through chests, no changing GUIs, and no drag-and-dropping.

Ore Multiplication: This is the weakest part of the mod. It would be okay in vanilla but in FtB we already have much easier methods that give almost as much. An Induction Smelter grants a +125% bonus to every resource that can be Factorized, and can be built almost immediately. You have to accept the multiplication process as a self-contained mini-game. It's only worth doing if you enjoy fiddling around with it.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Factorization is an odd duck in that it basically a self-contained mod. Many of the features that seem lackluster in FtB would be very powerful in an otherwise modded game. It still brings a lot to the table, I wouldn't want to play without it. I'd say the thing I like about it the most is that it reduces the number of clicks that you have to do to perform basic actions.

Pocketcrafter: This is a matter of personal taste. Just as you can't understand why some people like it, I can't understand why you don't like it. :p
When I go on expeditions, I'm always running out of simple consumables or discovering that I need some basic tool that I don't have. The normal way to deal with this is to fish a Workbench out of your inventory, put it on your hotbar, place it on the ground, and then click it. When you're done, you either have to retrieve the bench or resign yourself to crafting a new one the next time you need something. With the Pocketcrafter, I just push J (or whatever button you choose to bind), and BAM you're ready to go. Yeah, sometimes you have to dump stuff from your inventory but I mind that less than fiddling with the Workbench. Moreover, the Balance feature is so good that I will frequently use the Pocketcrafter even if I have a 'real' Workbench right in front of me.
My problem is the inventory juggling you have to do before you can use it. Doubly so with Inventory Tweaks, which I use to keep my inventory organized, and moves left to right rather than counting columns.

Bag of Holding: This thing is great. It seems kind of weird and counter-intuitive until you realize that it was designed to have the minimum number of clicks to operate. Once you understand what it's trying to do, it's amazing. There are no subscreens or extra GUIs to fiddle with, and it works even if it's not on your hotbar. I like it so much that I rebound it to the side button on my mouse. It also effectively expands your hotbar, which is huge.

The best way to use it is to place it on the fourth column from the right in your inventory. That way, it doesn't scramble your inventory every time you use it. If you upgrade it, you want it move it one column to the left for every extra column you get. If you use it in this manner, you will quickly grasp how clean and easy it is to use.

The Bag of Holding isn't an either-or choice with the Forestry bags. You use both. The Forestry bags are great, but they are a huge pain to retrieve things from unless you resign yourself to always having them on your hotbar. The BoH doesn't have the raw storage but lets you instantly access items with a single keystroke without even having to open the inventory screen at all.
Yea... here's the thing about that, I almost never look at the GUI for a forestry bag. Let's look at the Digger's Backpack as a prime example:

I shift + Right Click until I get the yellow arrow. This will auto-fill any available stacks in inventory from the backpack. So I've got a stack of cobble that will automatically refill from my backpack, no clicking necessary. Very handy for building massive structures rapidly, like putting up a ghast-proof wall around your nether portal.

For my Miner's Backpack, I just use it to save storage. Like the Digger's Backpack, things automatically go into it, no clicking necessary. However, I have no intent to use it to build with, so I just use normal mode, so all my ores I dig go straight to my backpack. Then, back in base, I right click the bag on my ore refinery's sorting machine, and everything is automatically handled from there. If my digger's backpack gets too clogged up, I right click the chest I use for storing such things, or just click the sorting machine's input so it auto-sorts to where it should go. Not once am I actually opening up a GUI. The digger's backpack I never need in my hotbar, and my miner's is only needed in my hotbar when I am in my base and clicking it into my refinery.

Wrath Lamps: The cost is only a problem if you are only making one or two of them. A diamond block makes 12 shards, and each shard can make a lamp. That's not so bad. Wrath Lamps are nice when you want to light a huge area but don't want to clutter it with torches. They are also really good at lighting up jagged cliff faces and other bits of difficult to navigate terrain.
Actually wrath lamps would be almost no cost at all... if I ever needed diamond shards for anything else. Unfortunately, I have no interest in a grinder, so anything which requires diamond shards don't seem to be worth it, because I'm looking at the nine diamond cost, and not seeing a payout commensurate to my initial layout. It's the fact that I have zero use for diamond shards that makes these so expensive.

Barrels: These sometimes save space, and sometimes require more space. It depends on what you're sorting. The main appeal for me is the easy labeling and the one-click interface. No searching through chests, no changing GUIs, and no drag-and-dropping.
This goes hand in hand with my previous statement about my digger's backpack. I just right click it on a chest, and I'm done. This doesn't work with barrels. If it did, I'd be much more inclined to use them. As it stands, I need to empty out my backpack, then double-right-click on the barrel. More steps, less convenience.

Ore Multiplication: This is the weakest part of the mod. It would be okay in vanilla but in FtB we already have much easier methods that give almost as much. An Induction Smelter grants a +125% bonus to every resource that can be Factorized, and can be built almost immediately. You have to accept the multiplication process as a self-contained mini-game. It's only worth doing if you enjoy fiddling around with it.
Well, the Angle Saw isn't a bad idea if you are going to build the infrastructure. Silk-touch without needing GregTech. Runs on the Factorization Battery, so you need at least one in inventory for it to work.
 

RivingtonDown

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Jul 29, 2019
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This goes hand in hand with my previous statement about my digger's backpack. I just right click it on a chest, and I'm done. This doesn't work with barrels. If it did, I'd be much more inclined to use them. As it stands, I need to empty out my backpack, then double-right-click on the barrel. More steps, less convenience.
The Barrels go hand in hand with the Router. Let's say you store Dirt, Cobble, Sand, and Gravel into Barrels. You place all four Barrels next to one another and set the way you want them to sort by putting one block into each, then you place a Router that touches at least one of those barrels. From your input chest route all Dirt, Cobble, Sand, and Gravel into the top of the single Router and voilà! This can be expanded almost infinitely by attaching more barrels and routing more stuff to the router... as you expand it you'll probably want to upgrade the router with Bandwidth (actually you might want bandwidth asap if you store cobble in it) and Speed. Also, if your Router touches more machines/inventories than just the barrels you'll want to place a machine filter to specify the barrels.

Also, don't forget Redpower. Pneumatic Tubes automatically sort into Barrels without needing any color coding. So a Sorting Machine and/or Filter can sort the items you dump into your input chest with your backpacks into Barrels without even needing Routers (though a Router will save you a ton of tubing since it literally just teleports items around).

Edit: That being said, there's something else you use Diamond Shards for. Building a Wraith Ignitor to create the dark iron ingots required to build Routers.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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The Barrels go hand in hand with the Router. Let's say you store Dirt, Cobble, Sand, and Gravel into Barrels. You place all four Barrels next to one another and set the way you want them to sort by putting one block into each, then you place a Router that touches at least one of those barrels. From your input chest route all Dirt, Cobble, Sand, and Gravel into the top of the single Router and voilà! This can be expanded almost infinitely by attaching more barrels and routing more stuff to the router... as you expand it you'll probably want to upgrade the router with Bandwidth (actually you might want bandwidth asap if you store cobble in it) and Speed. Also, if your Router touches more machines/inventories than just the barrels you'll want to place a machine filter to specify the barrels.

Also, don't forget Redpower. Pneumatic Tubes automatically sort into Barrels without needing any color coding. So a Sorting Machine and/or Filter can sort the items you dump into your input chest with your backpacks into Barrels without even needing Routers (though a Router will save you a ton of tubing since it literally just teleports items around).

Edit: That being said, there's something else you use Diamond Shards for. Building a Wraith Ignitor to create the dark iron ingots required to build Routers.
The problem is that with a sorting system already in place, routers are decidedly sub-par. Like you said, why bother with a router when I can just use a Filter? Since I don't plan on building walls of barrels, I don't really need a router. A few chests have far more functionality and better overall storage capacity. Perhaps it doesn't look quite as cool, but form must follow function, not the other way 'round.

Routers seem to be very good if you have LOTS of something you are wanting to store in. Not so much when you have a mere dozen or so inventories. So DW20's barrel room? Would probably be better served with a router. He's got an absolute ton of them in there. His initial storage room? No so much. I tend more toward his original storage room than large walls of barrels. The only time I really built a room that big was back when I was playing with Logistics Pipes and had a wall of autocrafting benches and crafting pipes.
 

RivingtonDown

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Jul 29, 2019
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The problem is that with a sorting system already in place, routers are decidedly sub-par. Like you said, why bother with a router when I can just use a Filter? Since I don't plan on building walls of barrels, I don't really need a router. A few chests have far more functionality and better overall storage capacity. Perhaps it doesn't look quite as cool, but form must follow function, not the other way 'round.

Routers seem to be very good if you have LOTS of something you are wanting to store in. Not so much when you have a mere dozen or so inventories. So DW20's barrel room? Would probably be better served with a router. He's got an absolute ton of them in there. His initial storage room? No so much. I tend more toward his original storage room than large walls of barrels. The only time I really built a room that big was back when I was playing with Logistics Pipes and had a wall of autocrafting benches and crafting pipes.
I'll give you my scenario. I also am a fan of chests for storing most of my items, all my ingots and metal blocks are in chests, all my redstone and glowstone and lapis and diamonds, all my bricks, my dyes, my bonemeal, etc... it's your typical storage scenario a wall of chests sorted with items - blocked and crated as needed for overflow. Now, along the side of my wall, perpendicular to my chests are Barrels; Dirt, Cobblestone, Gravel, Sand, Marble, and Basalt on one side and on the other side all my Xycraft Crystals, Redpower Gems, and Forcicium also in barrels. Next to each set of Barrels is a Router that accepts those items and distributes them into their respective barrels. The barrels have the extra dimensional upgrades so they hold 1024(!) stacks (well, at least the common block ones do). Setting those up was very simple, I actually set it up that way for simplicity's sake.

Direwolf's setup works fine for how he's using it. I wouldn't put all those items into Barrels like he did since I don't know why you'd ever have 64 stacks of most items but whatever floats your boat. He really should of used a router or two instead of all those tubes though... that's for sure.

P.S. I actually use logistics pipes in my game, some of those barrels have Provider pipes so I can Request from them... and inserting into all those barrels only took one logistics pipe per router... so it saves a headache there as well.
 

Lathanael

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I'll give you my scenario. I also am a fan of chests for storing most of my items, all my ingots and metal blocks are in chests, all my redstone and glowstone and lapis and diamonds, all my bricks, my dyes, my bonemeal, etc... it's your typical storage scenario a wall of chests sorted with items - blocked and crated as needed for overflow. Now, along the side of my wall, perpendicular to my chests are Barrels; Dirt, Cobblestone, Gravel, Sand, Marble, and Basalt on one side and on the other side all my Xycraft Crystals, Redpower Gems, and Forcicium also in barrels. Next to each set of Barrels is a Router that accepts those items and distributes them into their respective barrels. The barrels have the extra dimensional upgrades so they hold 1024(!) stacks (well, at least the common block ones do). Setting those up was very simple, I actually set it up that way for simplicity's sake.

Direwolf's setup works fine for how he's using it. I wouldn't put all those items into Barrels like he did since I don't know why you'd ever have 64 stacks of most items but whatever floats your boat. He really should of used a router or two instead of all those tubes though... that's for sure.

P.S. I actually use logistics pipes in my game, some of those barrels have Provider pipes so I can Request from them... and inserting into all those barrels only took one logistics pipe per router... so it saves a headache there as well.


The combination of both barrels and chest is imho he best way to go as you have it layed out. An all barrel looks cool but takes up a huge amount of space. An all chest is normally small but can have problem with really common items.