Doing some research in the newest IC2_Exp build[138]

[Yosomith]

IC2 could improve itself by adding more interesting consumers. I'm not saying IC2 is bad (although I am not a big fan of the old power network), but it is hard to see how it can compete with MJ networks in terms of servicing a wide variety of machines.

MJ Networks also have a lot more variety of machines to service, what with TE, Forestry, Binnie's Mods and Buildcraft all using it. EU hasn't got many contenders for it's power, IC2, GT (Which I no longer use), Charge Pads....trying to think of more, I'm sure they are there but I doubt I've used them. IC2 had what 5 machines? GT added plenty more but I never saw a need to create a sprawling machine shop. Personally I didn't mind the whole, make 10-20 geo-thermals, get tank full of lava, hook them all up and your set for the rest of your minecraft days.

I'm sure with more variety (And not just the same things other mods are doing) there may come a need to have a good EU power network setup. As it stands, there isn't much demand for a system like MJs for EU.

 

[Cronos988]

Hmm, I think adding an extra machine/item as an intermediary step is fine. It creates the additional goal of effectively automating that part, which is always nice to design.

What I don't like about this change is the extension of the ore processing chain. Ore doubling using 2 or three machines is completely fine. It fulfills the purpose of giving the player an incentive to start up a workshop and gives a sense of progression from manual work to the "Industrial age". Additional ore-processing steps, and corresponding higher yield adds nothing to the table, it becomes a numbers game: Increase the costs, increase the yield, the end result is no net gain.

UU Matter seems to basically change into an EE 2 System. I also dislike that. UU-Matter is already problematic, but any full conversion system that can make everything you teach it immediately conflates the entire game into that one machine. From a design perspective, it's a cheap option: We need a reason why players should bother creating power and increasing ore yield, let's give them a machine as an end-goal that will then make everything. But a machine that can make everything doesn't add anything to gameplay. It just removes gameplay. In the current system, UU-Matter is only fine because there are so many things it can't make.

The new power generators seem nice though. But if all you can come up for using that power is "Making items out of thin air", I am not terribly interested.

 

[whizzball1]

Semifluid is a more viscous kind of liquid, like Oil. I'd assume that it'll be oil in the Semifluid generator.
I love the thing that shows how much UU you need for a specific thing. Pretty nice.
When I create an experimental 1.6.2 AM, this'll definitely be a big testing spot for me.

 

[Hydra]

UU Matter seems to basically change into an EE 2 System. I also dislike that. UU-Matter is already problematic, but any full conversion system that can make everything you teach it immediately conflates the entire game into that one machine. From a design perspective, it's a cheap option: We need a reason why players should bother creating power and increasing ore yield, let's give them a machine as an end-goal that will then make everything. But a machine that can make everything doesn't add anything to gameplay. It just removes gameplay. In the current system, UU-Matter is only fine because there are so many things it can't make.

Agree. Once you build it you just go "meh" and restart because it's such a "machine to end all machines".

I do hope they finally remove the lava / water source blocks though. Those should not be possible to get outside creative IMHO, and they're an old pre-liquids relic anyway.[DOUBLEPOST=1378825907][/DOUBLEPOST]

Semifluid is a more viscous kind of liquid, like Oil.

Well no, they call stuff like pitch and glass semifluids, oil is just a liquid. It's just another quasi-scientific thing that actually doesn't really make sense.

 

[dtech100]

MJ is better than EU production - i can agree that making MJ is harder than EU.

When is new MC version IC2 has the same things. BC has changed a lot back when 1.3.2 was, the same with Forestry (new simple clock engine) Thermal Expansion always had new stuff every MC update. Only IC2 have the same generators, energy storage units.

Also big minus of IC2 EU energy is that mostly GregTech and MFR are using it. The rest of main mods are using MJ energy - Forestry, MFR, Binnie's mod and others. So MJ energy is more useful than EU.

I liked in 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 MC version IC2 that you could put a lot overclockers and processing of ore - ingot took almost a few seconds - but doing the same things when there's new vanilla MC is boring.

Making plates instead of refined iron - the same thing. I like new cable mechanics - EU cables are better than redstone conduits from TE, but new cables in BC have the same features - max energy output.
New macerationg process is similiar to GregTech - gaining small piles of ores as 3 time ore processing - macerator, ore washing machine, thermal centrifuge - using more energy but gaining more products - very good idea.

Good that they changed UU matter process - in 1.5.2 MC and earlier vesions you could connect 20 HV solars/ Ultimate hybrid solars and you have 1 uu matter in 1 second - from this you can simply make every ore you like - coal, iron, gold, copper, tin, redstone, lapis, glowstone, etc, no uranium but for this you have bees - so nerfing this is very good and right now you must mine more in normal/ quarry/ turtle way - so no more easy way of gaining thousands of ores.

Making a lot of EU is easier than MJ - compact solars, advanced solar, compact windmills - each can generate thousands of EU/t but not using anything. The same is when you use lava - but right now it's nerfed to gain 12k EU per bucket of lava.

I hope experimental IC2 version for 1.6.2 will add more new stuff - right now they added CESU (300k MV storage unit), they increased MFE & MFSU energy storage by 4 times, added ore wascher & thermal centrifuge for gaining extra ingots, new uranium usage, nerfing UU matter.

 

[Cronos988]

Making plates instead of refined iron - the same thing. I like new cable mechanics - EU cables are better than redstone conduits from TE, but new cables in BC have the same features - max energy output.
New macerationg process is similiar to GregTech - gaining small piles of ores as 3 time ore processing - macerator, ore washing machine, thermal centrifuge - using more energy but gaining more products - very good idea.

Good that they changed UU matter process - in 1.5.2 MC and earlier vesions you could connect 20 HV solars/ Ultimate hybrid solars and you have 1 uu matter in 1 second - from this you can simply make every ore you like - coal, iron, gold, copper, tin, redstone, lapis, glowstone, etc, no uranium but for this you have bees - so nerfing this is very good and right now you must mine more in normal/ quarry/ turtle way - so no more easy way of gaining thousands of ores.

Because once you have 20 HV Solar arrays, it clearly matters how long UU-Matter takes.

 

[Loufmier]

Good that they changed UU matter process - in 1.5.2 MC and earlier vesions you could connect 20 HV solars/ Ultimate hybrid solars and you have 1 uu matter in 1 second - from this you can simply make every ore you like - coal, iron, gold, copper, tin, redstone, lapis, glowstone, etc, no uranium but for this you have bees - so nerfing this is very good and right now you must mine more in normal/ quarry/ turtle way - so no more easy way of gaining thousands of ores.

so in other words it`s a right thing to nerf uu matter instead of fixing broken power generation?

once you have 20 HV Solar arrays

once you have that many solars, you can just bid farewell to your creativity.

 

[DanteDarkstar]

For me, it's going in right direction. At the moment most industrial mods have almost no complexity, and to make something, you just need to get that "one rare resource" (which for magical reasons so often turn to be diamonds) and suddenly you have a machine. It makes material processing just an afterthought to mining. You have a problem ? It's never "you do not have industrial base to process those materials". It's always "you do not have enough raw resources". Because processing is trivial and takes no time (at least basic crafting). Funny thing how most of the things built with diamonds and other rare resources are in reality made from plain steel, just requiring *work* to make it. It looks like there is too much "mine" and not enough "craft" IMHO.
So overall, I look at it as a good thing.

 

[Loufmier]

For me, it's going in right direction. At the moment most industrial mods have almost no complexity, and to make something, you just need to get that "one rare resource" (which for magical reasons so often turn to be diamonds) and suddenly you have a machine. It makes material processing just an afterthought to mining. You have a problem ? It's never "you do not have industrial base to process those materials". It's always "you do not have enough raw resources". Because processing is trivial and takes no time (at least basic crafting). Funny thing how most of the things built with diamonds and other rare resources are in reality made from plain steel, just requiring *work* to make it. It looks like there is too much "mine" and not enough "craft" IMHO.
So overall, I look at it as a good thing.

it`s rather fascinating how can one be so addicted to 3x3 grid.

 

[Siro]

Hmm, I think adding an extra machine/item as an intermediary step is fine. It creates the additional goal of effectively automating that part, which is always nice to design.

What I don't like about this change is the extension of the ore processing chain. Ore doubling using 2 or three machines is completely fine. It fulfills the purpose of giving the player an incentive to start up a workshop and gives a sense of progression from manual work to the "Industrial age". Additional ore-processing steps, and corresponding higher yield adds nothing to the table, it becomes a numbers game: Increase the costs, increase the yield, the end result is no net gain.

UU Matter seems to basically change into an EE 2 System. I also dislike that. UU-Matter is already problematic, but any full conversion system that can make everything you teach it immediately conflates the entire game into that one machine. From a design perspective, it's a cheap option: We need a reason why players should bother creating power and increasing ore yield, let's give them a machine as an end-goal that will then make everything. But a machine that can make everything doesn't add anything to gameplay. It just removes gameplay. In the current system, UU-Matter is only fine because there are so many things it can't make.

The new power generators seem nice though. But if all you can come up for using that power is "Making items out of thin air", I am not terribly interested.

What would you suggest as high end consumers that'd justify building a robust power network? On the MJ side, there's extra bees machines and the MFR laser drill. On the EU side, there's teleporters, mass fabricator(matter fabricator & interdimensional teleporters w/ GT) and again the MFR laser drill. I like uu matter for the simple reason that it provides access to blocks that are otherwise unobtainable (still water for example), whereas the laser drill just produces ores.

I'd love to see some more high end consumers that are purely for fun. Maybe a fireworks generator. Decorative lasers. Decorative block fabricators. Build pattern assemblers. The problem as I see it is that an energy consuming block has to do something some other block doesn't already do cheaper. I see some people play FTB and get bored once they've built all the machines. It's possible these people simply don't understand the basic point of minecraft (mine, craft/build). But giving them a fun target to keep playing with after they've built a power network could help.

 

[Flipz]

One day, it might be what you said, flint and stick before you can fall a tree.

IguanaMod addon for Tinker's Construct already has you covered there.

 

[Hyperme]

Decorative lasers.

I wouldn't mine some deadly lasers. Or fancy signal transmission lasers.

Anyhow, I think IC2 needs more midgame everything. You kind of go from grinding up rocks and squashing metal together to weird purple stuff that makes things and 100% damage resistance. Also electrical carts because why not?

 

[Drawde]

Isn't Compact Solars an easily removed addon? That's not part of IC2 proper? One designed to reduce the lag of a field of solar panels, but still an addon?

If so, why are people complaining about it in a base-IC2 thread?

 

[Loufmier]

Isn't Compact Solars an easily removed addon? That's not part of IC2 proper? One designed to reduce the lag of a field of solar panels, but still an addon?

If so, why are people complaining about it in a base-IC2 thread?

probably because people to used to it and dont really care about it`s origin? besides without it IC2 power gen would be even more pathetic

 

[DanteDarkstar]

it`s rather fascinating how can one be so addicted to 3x3 grid.

This has nothing to do with 3x3 grid. It's about more general trend that to get some goody thing you need far more searching for rare resources than complex processing that is the core of real industry.

 

[Siro]

I wouldn't mine some deadly lasers. Or fancy signal transmission lasers.

Anyhow, I think IC2 needs more midgame everything. You kind of go from grinding up rocks and squashing metal together to weird purple stuff that makes things and 100% damage resistance. Also electrical carts because why not?

Xycraft may someday release, then we'll get a laser based power system (some bits of which are deadly if you happen to get in the way of a laser pulse). Electrical carts would be cool, but I'd also like to see steve's carts just integrate with ic2 for powering the cart... Like add an electric engine, battery slot and charging/electrified track.

 

[Mortvana]

More steps to achieve the same result does not make it hard. It makes it tedious, pointless waste of time. See, 3 ingots in a row makes wires, compared to say, using more materials to make a tool to flatten the ingots and MORE materials to make a cutter to cut the plates you just hammered to make wires. It is not harder, it is just wasting your time.

Same deal with making a machine that makes you the stuff you need to upgrade the same machine so you can get stuff to further upgrade the same machine. E.g. GT Industrial Blast Furnace.

Hard, it is not. Tedious, it is.

SO... FRICKIN... TRUE... Man, If my mod was done, I would give you a free Induction Blast Smeltery AND Cooling Chamber

 

[Loufmier]

This has nothing to do with 3x3 grid. It's about more general trend that to get some goody thing you need far more searching for rare resources than complex processing that is the core of real industry.

that`s actually the problem of minecraft not being real industry. crafting boxes for creating multistage box production isnt that interesting.
hunting for rare(by rare i dont mean ender pearls, they are just PITA) resources is a base mechanics of minecraft and if you cant tolerate it why are you even playing this game?

 

[Antice]

that`s actually the problem of minecraft not being real industry. crafting boxes for creating multistage box production isnt that interesting.
hunting for rare(by rare i dont mean ender pearls, they are just PITA) resources is a base mechanics of minecraft and if you cant tolerate it why are you even playing this game?

hunting for rare resources (aka diggy holes) is part of minecraft. but for many it is not THE core mechanic. building shit is however a much bigger part of minecraft. it's lego with monsters in it after all.
some people want to have a need for building large complex automated factories. multi stage processing is part of that. that is why some of us are happy to see the extra steps added. as long as they add a machine that can replace the 3x3 step once you start climbing the techtree, then that adds gameplay value.
rube goldberg devices are the bread and butter of modded minecraft.

 

[PhilHibbs]

so in other words it`s a right thing to nerf uu matter instead of fixing broken power generation?

Are you saying that EU generation is overpowered?

probably because people to used to it and dont really care about it`s origin? besides without it IC2 power gen would be even more pathetic

Are you saying that EU generation is underpowered?