I personally think IC2 wouldn't be getting so much flak if had done this pre-GregTech Era (about the time GT became popular). They are basically changing the recipe and requiring a different way to do it. Before was a furnace, now there's a tool/machine for it. I'm not saying I like it, I'm saying it may have some promise. If we give it a a while to ferment, we might get a good mod going again. Hopefully with new and somewhat innovative content.
Doing some research in the newest IC2_Exp build[138]
- Thread starter matpower123
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Well, here's to hoping Dartcraft gets MJ integration so we don't even need EU for anything. Seriously. Charged Dartcraft armor is the sole reason I have EU at all, and that isn't going to change. IC2 and EU as a whole is still incredibly far behind MJ, with no energy teleportation, clunky wrench mechanics and nothing to even use it for that some MJ mod can't do just as well.
Basically, IC2 desperately needs to be able to do things that other mods can't do. Everything that was unique about it has been snatched away. Crops? TC3, MFS, Forestry. Crazy power gen? RC Steam. Uber fast machines? TE pretty soon. Crazy armor? MPS and Dartcraft. Uber fast tools? Dartcraft and TiC. Chargeable tools? MPS+TE. Teleportation? Ars Magica, Mystcraft, Portal Gun.
One thing, though, is that needlessly adding Greg-style nerfs to multiple aspects of the mod is idiocy.
Basically, IC2 desperately needs to be able to do things that other mods can't do. Everything that was unique about it has been snatched away. Crops? TC3, MFS, Forestry. Crazy power gen? RC Steam. Uber fast machines? TE pretty soon. Crazy armor? MPS and Dartcraft. Uber fast tools? Dartcraft and TiC. Chargeable tools? MPS+TE. Teleportation? Ars Magica, Mystcraft, Portal Gun.
One thing, though, is that needlessly adding Greg-style nerfs to multiple aspects of the mod is idiocy.
how do you gather that its a GT-style nerfing? GT as an IC2 addon rather than a conversion is nice. those harder nerfs are, in my opinion, insane. I don't mind plates for machines (what IC2 has done), but I sure mind when its for basic iron armor and tools and youre stuck with a 2-1 conversion ratio till you get a machine to do it.
point is, IC2 needs updated, bad. but, if you feel that one extra tool and a little extra work is gamebreaking, im not gonna change that.
and its probably about the same as it was when you had to use refined iron.
then, you had to double-smelt the ingot, which probably meant you needed more than one furnace. now, you craft a hammer, then whack into plates.
First of all, by Greg-style nerfs I mean nerfs for no true purpose but to make things take longer. Which is what this is. It's not absolutely insane like GregTech itself, but the philosophy is seemingly similar. This nerf isn't game-breaking by any means, but it has no real purpose.
The difference between plates/new wires and Refined Iron was that with Refined Iron all you had to do was put iron into an induction furnace and bam you have refined iron. Plates/new wires use a slow machine that needs overclockers to get sped up (which is 10x worse than a lever), or even worse low-durability tools.
The difference between plates/new wires and Refined Iron was that with Refined Iron all you had to do was put iron into an induction furnace and bam you have refined iron. Plates/new wires use a slow machine that needs overclockers to get sped up (which is 10x worse than a lever), or even worse low-durability tools.
Just imagine the vanilla crafting table. Now tell different modders to make something with it. Some will extend it, creating an autocrafting table or a clipboard/pocket crafting table, making it more useful (while maybe requiring more work). The other option is to put a crank on it that you need to turn 10 times to get one craft done, and add a complicated and expensive machine that some time in the future might be able to turn the crank for you. I prefer the first way, Greg and now IC2 seem to go the other way.
The main difference is that in the old system with refined iron you just toss 6 stacks of iron in a furnace and go do something else in the meantime. So it served it's purpose: prevent recipe conflits without adding unnessary timesinks. The plate hammering thingy just adds tedium.
Also to add; it's NOT just the refined iron. You need stuff like cutters and hammers to modify tin and copper too for stuff like wires and batteries. That's just annoying.
It's just a power system, a means to an end. Seriously, what's there to 'like' about a copper cable?
jeez, the amount of childish posts here is terrible. IC2 is an industrial mod it always had in mind to do more complicated stuff and a tad more realistic than other mods. Yes, EU is supposed to be harder to use than MJ, but that's actually the point. Difficulty. People don't make the difference between the GT "grindy" changes to the game and the IC2 "harder" changes that are being made. Besides it's still an experimental version. The way I see it is that EU will become a high tier energy system, capable of doing even more stuff than ever. UU matter is being made even more powerful but more expensive. You know what that means ? Power sink for end game!
Stop right there. The plate/wire changes are not making IC2 any "harder". They're making it more grindy. Which you kindly associated to GT.
Fun fact: MJ is actually a far deeper power system than EU as it stands.
How so? MJ doesn't seem to have any concept of a voltage, and it's concept of transfer loss seems minimal. I'll admit there are some things about EU that seem inefficient to me (sending invisible objects around as packets) but MJ seems no better there either.
More steps to achieve the same result does not make it hard. It makes it tedious, pointless waste of time. See, 3 ingots in a row makes wires, compared to say, using more materials to make a tool to flatten the ingots and MORE materials to make a cutter to cut the plates you just hammered to make wires. It is not harder, it is just wasting your time.
Same deal with making a machine that makes you the stuff you need to upgrade the same machine so you can get stuff to further upgrade the same machine. E.g. GT Industrial Blast Furnace.
Hard, it is not. Tedious, it is.
Same deal with making a machine that makes you the stuff you need to upgrade the same machine so you can get stuff to further upgrade the same machine. E.g. GT Industrial Blast Furnace.
Hard, it is not. Tedious, it is.
Your being intentionally obtuse, right? You want it all the way or not at all? So rather than have intermediate steps in the mods realm-of-influence, you'd rather hunt down a suitable stick, some flint, and something to tie with, and spend a few hours cutting a tree down?
That is what ic2 is going down the path of, like TFC or BTW. And it is not the path I like. GT already made it so you need a saw to get planks, if there are more supporters behind this form of additions to tedious activities, who knows? One day, it might be what you said, flint and stick before you can fall a tree.
Buildcraft pipes actually have power limits now. You need different types of pipes to be efficient with your resources. And MJ has so many more power generation options it's not even funny:
EU: Solar, Coal, Lava, Steam
MJ: Coal, Lava, Solar, Steam, Oil/Fuel, Saplings (2 types of gens too), Force, EU(?!), etc.
EU has depth? I suppose it does if you consider running glass fiber everywhere and placing down a few solars "depth". And as mentioned changes for the sole purpose of reality is ridiculous in Minecraft unless you're a total conversion mod (which IC2 is not).
IC2 could improve itself by adding more interesting consumers. I'm not saying IC2 is bad (although I am not a big fan of the old power network), but it is hard to see how it can compete with MJ networks in terms of servicing a wide variety of machines.
GT adds moar consumers and EU is still lame.
what it need is to add more producers alongside those consumer, and just mere LV but MV too.
If reality was fun we would not be playing games.
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Now this is funny. On one hand you want 'realism', on the other hand you support the system in IC2 that is as far from realism as it gets.