Mod Feedback [By Request] RotaryCraft Suggestions

[TomeWyrm]

Putting it behind the same progression as the Torsion upgrades works fine for me progression-wise; those were specifically designed so that a player able to make them could already generate RC power in large amounts and with great flexibility.

I have no problem with that, it is just that I cannot see an in-universe explanation.

Rotational to mana? For a mod where the flowers generate magic via burning stuff, eating leaves, drinking lava, and eating cake? The question at that point becomes "why not rotational energy?".

The other way around is actually nearly as easy. Mana already does lots of physical work with mana lenses, just have a special "burst receptor" with or without a special mana lens... dunno if @Vazkii has hooks in the API for any of that though. It generates power via any number of force transfer mechanisms you care to decide. You could do the equivalent of a water wheel, wind turbine, or similar. The blades would simply treat the mana burst as solid.

Though if this actually goes any further, I pinged @Vazkii because power conversion is one of the areas where her vision for the mod tends to come into play. She might also be able to help with ideas if the topic appeals to her.

You could do similar with Motus aspect from ThaumCraft. If you wanted to go for a Essentia (for Energized Vis, eat Ordo+Aer, the components of Motus) > Shaft converter. No idea on any reasonable Shaft > Energized Vis converter though.

Blood Magic... Well obviously an upgradeable ritual using plinths to hold your tiering upgrades. LP > Shaft is easy. Going the other way... I honestly can't see the point. It either bypasses the pre-t3 stages entirely, or becomes 100% redundant once you get the ritual of feathered knife or well of suffering.

Ars Magica is going the way of the dodo now, and I never got enough into the mod (or the P&P RPG) to really grasp the concepts behind it.

That covers most of the mods with power systems yeah? Oh right... Witchery... Not a clue in my fuzzy little head.

 

[RavynousHunter]

I'm just imagining a flower sitting on top of a bevel gears and spinning. ...That is hilarious.

 

[jordsta95]

I'm just imagining a flower sitting on top of a bevel gears and spinning. ...That is hilarious.

on top of your gearbox

 

[Demosthenex]

Rotational to mana? For a mod where the flowers generate magic via burning stuff, eating leaves, drinking lava, and eating cake? The question at that point becomes "why not rotational energy?".

The other way around is actually nearly as easy. Mana already does lots of physical work with mana lenses, just have a special "burst receptor" with or without a special mana lens... dunno if @Vazkii has hooks in the API for any of that though. It generates power via any number of force transfer mechanisms you care to decide. You could do the equivalent of a water wheel, wind turbine, or similar. The blades would simply treat the mana burst as solid.

Though if this actually goes any further, I pinged @Vazkii because power conversion is one of the areas where her vision for the mod tends to come into play. She might also be able to help with ideas if the topic appeals to her.

You could do similar with Motus aspect from ThaumCraft. If you wanted to go for a Essentia (for Energized Vis, eat Ordo+Aer, the components of Motus) > Shaft converter. No idea on any reasonable Shaft > Energized Vis converter though.

Blood Magic... Well obviously an upgradeable ritual using plinths to hold your tiering upgrades. LP > Shaft is easy. Going the other way... I honestly can't see the point. It either bypasses the pre-t3 stages entirely, or becomes 100% redundant once you get the ritual of feathered knife or well of suffering.

Ars Magica is going the way of the dodo now, and I never got enough into the mod (or the P&P RPG) to really grasp the concepts behind it.

That covers most of the mods with power systems yeah? Oh right... Witchery... Not a clue in my fuzzy little head.

Use RoC to make lava, use the liquid spiller or the BC flood gate to deposit lava next to the flower that makes mana from lava, done.

 

[Reika]

Rotational to mana? For a mod where the flowers generate magic via burning stuff, eating leaves, drinking lava, and eating cake? The question at that point becomes "why not rotational energy?".

The other way around is actually nearly as easy. Mana already does lots of physical work with mana lenses, just have a special "burst receptor" with or without a special mana lens... dunno if @Vazkii has hooks in the API for any of that though. It generates power via any number of force transfer mechanisms you care to decide. You could do the equivalent of a water wheel, wind turbine, or similar. The blades would simply treat the mana burst as solid.

Though if this actually goes any further, I pinged @Vazkii because power conversion is one of the areas where her vision for the mod tends to come into play. She might also be able to help with ideas if the topic appeals to her.

You could do similar with Motus aspect from ThaumCraft. If you wanted to go for a Essentia (for Energized Vis, eat Ordo+Aer, the components of Motus) > Shaft converter. No idea on any reasonable Shaft > Energized Vis converter though.

Blood Magic... Well obviously an upgradeable ritual using plinths to hold your tiering upgrades. LP > Shaft is easy. Going the other way... I honestly can't see the point. It either bypasses the pre-t3 stages entirely, or becomes 100% redundant once you get the ritual of feathered knife or well of suffering.

Ars Magica is going the way of the dodo now, and I never got enough into the mod (or the P&P RPG) to really grasp the concepts behind it.

That covers most of the mods with power systems yeah? Oh right... Witchery... Not a clue in my fuzzy little head.

That is not quite what I mean. The position RC takes on magic is much like I do in the real world - it does not exist. So any magical interactions are either "fundamental" - eg the magical components of items - or "at arms length", not directly controlled by RC in-universe. Thus we have a problem. As far as RC is concerned, how exactly does this device work?

Again, I am not against the conversion, I just do not see a satisfying explanation in-universe that does not require RC to act like magic exists.

 

[Someone Else 37]

I wonder if converting mana to or from Chromaticraft energy might make more sense. I could see an ability that lets mana tablets, tools, armor, etc. to draw from the player's aura, much like the one for Blood Magic. A block that directly accepts lumens and spits out mana or vice versa, though, may or may not break the balance of one mod or the other.

As for conversion to and from shaft power, mana -> Fluxfield -> RF -> Magnetostatic -> shaft power already works (if at a painfully low efficiency), as does shaft power -> Rock Melter -> lava -> BC flootgate or a cleverly automated Dispenser -> Thermalily -> mana. Shaft power -> Some combination of Fertilizer, Pump, Sprinkler, Fans, and Woodcutter -> plants -> food/leaves -> Gourmallys/Munchdew is probably more efficient, considering the Thermalily nerfs, but if you're only using RoC to grow crops, you might as well just use an Agricarnation.

 

[Reika]

I wonder if converting mana to or from Chromaticraft energy might make more sense. I could see an ability that lets mana tablets, tools, armor, etc. to draw from the player's aura, much like the one for Blood Magic. A block that directly accepts lumens and spits out mana or vice versa, though, may or may not break the balance of one mod or the other.

As for conversion to and from shaft power, mana -> Fluxfield -> RF -> Magnetostatic -> shaft power already works (if at a painfully low efficiency), as does shaft power -> Rock Melter -> lava -> BC flootgate or a cleverly automated Dispenser -> Thermalily -> mana. Shaft power -> Some combination of Fertilizer, Pump, Sprinkler, Fans, and Woodcutter -> plants -> food/leaves -> Gourmallys/Munchdew is probably more efficient, considering the Thermalily nerfs, but if you're only using RoC to grow crops, you might as well just use an Agricarnation.

I agree in that ChromatiCraft is a better source for this, and with it being later-game, also runs less risk of unbalancing Botania. With that in mind, and the fact that you already can convert to mana indirectly - and I like the ingenuity of solutions like this, and do not want to obsoletize them with a simple plug-and-play converter - I think that is the better way to go. I also already have aspect conversions in CC.

 

[keybounce]

If you want to use biome conditions to gate access to rotarycraft, you might want to use BiomeTweaker to adjust the temperature/etc conditions, to make the snowy zones even colder.

https://github.com/superckl/BiomeTweaker/wiki

 

[Reika]

If you want to use biome conditions to gate access to rotarycraft, you might want to use BiomeTweaker to adjust the temperature/etc conditions, to make the snowy zones even colder.

https://github.com/superckl/BiomeTweaker/wiki

That will not affect DragonAPI logic.

 

[TomeWyrm]

Ok, completely disregarding entirely the non-botania mods. You don't have to treat magic as existing, precisely. You simply realize that this phenomena exerts force upon materials, and harness that force. You are fully unconcerned about how it generates force or where it generates force from. From a shaft power generation perspective you are concerned if the force exists, how to harness it, and any side effects.

The logical (to me) consequence would be a "mana" water wheel. Let the burst hit plates made of a tough material, or even magical one. From this point forward, it's a standard water wheel.

The other way around you are also not concerned that mana exists, nor how it works. What you know is that "This flower likes to spin, how can I spin it".

Admittedly yes it makes more sense in ChromatiCraft. But I've never really been a fan of converting one magic to another. It always strikes me as "runs on handwavium", "don't look to closely or the universe will implode", "improbability drive" level... I'm very much a student of the Sandersonian school of magic. Magic has rules, you may not know them, but they're there, and they are as iron clad as the rules of physics; they may not make as much sense, they often break traditional logic in fact, but they have their own internal logic and will NEVER deviate from it.

Whereas converting to/from magic and tech? There are long histories of this. The examples given by @Someone Else 37 are perfect examples of the "laws of tech" and "laws of magic" interacting.

Laws of magic say that Flower + Lava = mana. Laws of Tech say cobblestone + threshold of power = lava. Therefore Cobblestone + shaft power = mana.

What I'm proposing is merely a more direct interface, ala Technomancy's concept. The Eberron setting of D&D for instance has ships and trains and such that run on the power of elementals. They don't care why elementals exist, how they are fueled, or anything else about the elementals other than that they can be contained, and that they produce useful energy. Fire elementals power steam boilers, lightning elementals provide electricity, air elementals provide thrust, etc.

The problem with a lot of those systems of transfer is that they're... roundabout. Often erratically efficient. Also they tend to be done better with other mods entirely. But most importantly? They don't fill the niche of "I have progress in X mod, and would like to use it to help Y mod along". Just like the Botanurgists Inkwell helps reduce the tedium of finding ink sacs by the use of mana, or the Fallen Kanede reduces the time spent regenerating health in front of the blood altar. Why not let an accomplished Rotary Engineer generate some supplemental mana, or the Botanically accomplished have the capacity to generate some small amount of shaft power? Maybe I only need a basic sprinkler and pump. I've got a massive surplus of mana. Wouldn't it be awesome to run that sprinkler with some mana?

Edit: Also some basic calculations can be used to gauge the force exerted by a mana burst. What can a bore lens go through, and what can it not? What's the hardness threshold that puts it at? What amount of force would be required to push through a meter of that material?

You could use inverse efficiency as well, as the upgrades get better, the wheel becomes more efficient at capturing the force form the mana bursts.

 

[Reika]

Having never used Botania, I would need to talk with @Vazkii for a better understanding of both the mechanics of mana and of course what is appropriate in terms of not unbalancing the mod.

 

[Whiteaeros]

Hopefully some one has not already posted this. Messing around with the mod today I had the thought that a line shaft system would be really useful for making a sort of manufacturing line that is ubiquitous in modded Minecraft. Having the ability to have a single shaft and pull belts down to drive sub shaft networks would be really useful.
Wiki for line shaft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_shaft
and a youtube video:

 

[Demosthenex]

Ok, so how are we supposed to build a contained reactor?

I've setup a small reactor with two layers of neutron reflectors, and then a line of 8 steel blocks and my test villager at the end of the row is still taking damage, meaning neutrons are escaping.

I tried replacing all eight steel blocks (yes, HSLA steel) with bedrock ingot blocks, and he still takes damage.

EDIT: I'm on the last v5, so maybe bedrock ingot blocks don't block @ 97.5% yet. But still, 8 steel blocks?

 

[Vazkii]

Having never used Botania, I would need to talk with @Vazkii for a better understanding of both the mechanics of mana and of course what is appropriate in terms of not unbalancing the mod.

If you want to talk feel free to drop on IRC.

 

[Reika]

If you want to talk feel free to drop on IRC.

Is there somewhere else? I always find that IRC is not conducive to a discussion, what with scheduling issues, random interjections, people playing IRC bot games, and browser crashes.

Ok, so how are we supposed to build a contained reactor?

I've setup a small reactor with two layers of neutron reflectors, and then a line of 8 steel blocks and my test villager at the end of the row is still taking damage, meaning neutrons are escaping.

I tried replacing all eight steel blocks (yes, HSLA steel) with bedrock ingot blocks, and he still takes damage.

EDIT: I'm on the last v5, so maybe bedrock ingot blocks don't block @ 97.5% yet. But still, 8 steel blocks?

Are you sure the reactor is the source?

Hopefully some one has not already posted this. Messing around with the mod today I had the thought that a line shaft system would be really useful for making a sort of manufacturing line that is ubiquitous in modded Minecraft. Having the ability to have a single shaft and pull belts down to drive sub shaft networks would be really useful.
Wiki for line shaft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_shaft
and a youtube video:

I am not really sure what I am looking at, or what use it has ingame. (I also do not see that taking industrial power levels, but that is a solvable issue).

 

[Vazkii]

Is there somewhere else? I always find that IRC is not conducive to a discussion, what with scheduling issues, random interjections, people playing IRC bot games, and browser crashes.

IRC isn't a problem. If you don't like large public channels just do a PM. And get a proper client, webchat is for scrubs.

 

[keybounce]

That will not affect DragonAPI logic.

So ... if I set the temperature of a biome to -2.0, DragonAPI won't see it as "really, really cold"?

 

[Reika]

So ... if I set the temperature of a biome to -2.0, DragonAPI won't see it as "really, really cold"?

No. DragonAPI uses its own logic and temperature scale.

 

[Demosthenex]

Are you sure the reactor is the source?

It's a creative world, the reactor is hovering at Y70 over a giant hole over the void. The villager is in a box aligned with one or more reactor cores. Yes I'm certain the neutrons are from the reactor.

http://imgur.com/oato5G2

I also tried fluorite blocks, but I keep my particles down so I really couldn't tell. So I put in live test subjects.

http://imgur.com/3OVqumr

Note to PETA: No pigs, cows, or chickens were harmed in the making of this reactor.

 

[1M Industries]

It's a creative world, the reactor is hovering at Y70 over a giant hole over the void. The villager is in a box aligned with one or more reactor cores. Yes I'm certain the neutrons are from the reactor.

http://imgur.com/oato5G2

I also tried fluorite blocks, but I keep my particles down so I really couldn't tell. So I put in live test subjects.

http://imgur.com/3OVqumr

Note to PETA: No pigs, cows, or chickens were harmed in the making of this reactor.

The reflectors only have a 65% chance to reflect the neutron now. You will need three layers, followed by a steel block to prevent leakage.