Mod Feedback [By Request] RotaryCraft Suggestions

[RavynousHunter]

Honestly, Reika's just fine; a bit...terse, but not confrontational.

@Cellular: The topic to which you posted that question originally was over two years old. Also, he asked you what other applications you'd like to see. Perhaps something hasn't come to him that'd fit the theme of either RotaryCraft or ReactorCraft. Trust me, Reika can be terse, but he's not an ass.

[Note that this is going off my own, personal experience with Reika. Your mileage may vary and such.]

 

[SirDoctorOfTardis]

On the subject of of oxygen, one use that jumps out at me as something that would be useful is a SCUBA tank. I haven't been able to play with RotaryCraft in a while so if it's already been added, I apologize.

@RavynousHunter I would definitely agree with that sentiment.

 

[Cellular]

Both parties: tone please.

Huh?

 

[Cellular]

Honestly, Reika's just fine; a bit...terse, but not confrontational.

@Cellular: The topic to which you posted that question originally was over two years old. Also, he asked you what other applications you'd like to see. Perhaps something hasn't come to him that'd fit the theme of either RotaryCraft or ReactorCraft. Trust me, Reika can be terse, but he's not an ass.

[Note that this is going off my own, personal experience with Reika. Your mileage may vary and such.]

I haven't checked back on that post so I didn't see it. I thought I'd ask again here. Sorry bout that.

As for uses for oxygen that I can think of, welding would be a cool thing to add. You could fix damaged equipment with it, or perhaps make an automated assembly line that auto welds equipment together and requires oxygen to do so.

 

[Braidedheadman]

Did you mention an issue with hydraulics? Also, now that you're here... PLEASE list one more damn use of oxygen. All I hear is it has useS, but I can only find one: pulse jet furnace. Tell me all of them.

This isn't reason enough?

Actually, it presents one of RotC's more interesting challenges: governing your pulse jet furnace's duty cycle while using oxygen without blowing everything up!

 

[Cellular]

This isn't reason enough?

Actually, it presents one of RotC's more interesting challenges: governing your pulse jet furnace's duty cycle while using oxygen without blowing everything up!

Add water, challenge removed. Or are you talking about something else?

 

[Braidedheadman]

Believe me, it's no where near that simple. Using oxygen as an additive in the pulse jet furnace causes it to overheat in exchange for greatly increased productivity and doubling your HSLA steel production. The thing is, whereas water keeps the PJF at a stable albeit relatively slow operating temperature; including oxygen additives very quickly causes the PJF to overheat past its safe operating temperature whereupon it will explode violently at 1000C. Actually, it's been quite a while since I was last able to tinker with any of this, so I'm a little fuzzy, but if I recall correctly, in order to take advantage of oxygen's speed bonus, you have to run the PJF without using water as a coolant since water stabilizes the operating temperature at 900C, which defeats the purpose of using the Oxygen in the first place. Though again, I might be a little fuzzy on that detail. In any case, the challenge is in automating this machine so that one doesn't need to hang around and babysit it manually. I can safely say that getting the most out of this machine is a non-trivial challenge indeed.

 

[Cellular]

Believe me, it's no where near that simple. Using oxygen as an additive in the pulse jet furnace causes it to overheat in exchange for greatly increased productivity and doubling your HSLA steel production. The thing is, whereas water keeps the PJF at a stable albeit relatively slow operating temperature; including oxygen additives very quickly causes the PJF to overheat past its safe operating temperature causing it to explode violently at 1000C. Actually, it's been quite a while since I was last able to tinker with any of this, so I'm a little fuzzy, but if I recall correctly, in order to take advantage of oxygen's speed bonus, you have to run the PJF without using water as a coolant since water stabilizes the operating temperature at 900C, which defeats the purpose of using the Oxygen in the first place. Though again, I might be a little fuzzy on that detail. In any case, the challenge is in automating this machine so that one doesn't need to hang around and babysit it manually. I can safely say that getting the most out of this machine is a non-trivial challenge indeed.

What are you talking about? I just went into a world to test it, threw in oxygen, fuel, and water. The thing stayed under 915 and cooked away. What version do you have? I'm v16. And I thought the only thing it did was speed up the process (which it did). Hold on and I'll do some testing. I might be a moron lol

 

[Braidedheadman]

Alright then, that confirms that you need to run it without water in order to achieve the higher temperatures necessary to increase productivity with oxygen. You can see where this becomes risky.

 

[Cellular]

What are you talking about? I just went into a world to test it, threw in oxygen, fuel, and water. The thing stayed under 915 and cooked away. What version do you have? I'm v16

Alright then, that confirms that you need to run it without water in order to achieve the higher temperatures necessary to increase productivity with oxygen. You can see where this becomes risky.

Idk if it confirms it, but if that's the way to go then cooling fins are the only possible way. The other way might be to have a valve that lets in a small amount of water at different intervals, allowing it to stay under 1000 degrees. Though if this were realistic I'm pretty sure a furnace could get hotter than this..

 

[Cellular]

Ok. I kept it under one thousand but above nine hundred long enough to convert 14 iron into 14 HSLA steel... no bonus, only speed. And yes I was using oxygen, it made no difference in the heat. The only difference came from the fact that there was one less cooling fin in order for me to lodge an oxygen hose onto one of its sides.

lol and sure enough, cast iron melting temp is over 1200 degrees Celsius

 

[Braidedheadman]

Ok. I kept it under one thousand but above nine hundred long enough to convert 14 iron into 14 HSLA steel... no bonus, only speed. And yes I was using oxygen, it made no difference in the heat. The only difference came from the fact that there was one less cooling fin in order for me to lodge an oxygen hose onto one of its sides.

lol and sure enough, cast iron melting temp is over 1200 degrees Celsius

The oxygen does make a difference in the heat, at least it used to and I can't imagine why that would change. In my experience with the machine, adding oxygen accelerant to the PJF caused its temperature to increase faster than even multiple cooling fins could dissipate, even with fans attached, which only slowed the temperature gain marginally. I don't recall oxygen increasing the temperature significantly while water was also being used; it still wouldn't smelt HSLA, which meant finding a way of running the machine dry if I wanted it to make steel, regardless of whether or not I was adding accelerants. If it does, what temperature does it stabilize at and are you getting the full speed benefit from the oxygen? The reason I ask is because the PJF devours oxygen tanks, certainly much faster than I was producing it.

I was also certain that oxygen acted an HSLA multiplier. /shrug

I don't see anything in the change logs that would indicate that any of this was changed in the past year.

Here's the solution I came up with last year:

The cooling fins and fans are optional but extend the duration of each duty cycle and cool the PJF a little faster while it's shut down. It's completely automated and completely safe --- er, that is barring using it on a live server that is experiencing a lot of bad TPS spikes (oops!) ... I actually still need to make some adjustments to this arrangement, lol

[Edit] Digging this up has jogged my memory somewhat, I think. Let me see if I've got this right:

Adding water as coolant to the PJF stabilizes the the operating temperature close to but less than 900C. Since smelting raw iron into HSLA steel requires temperatures above 900C, the PJF must be operated without water. Cooling fins can stabilize the temperature above 900C, iirc, somewhere in the range of 950C(?). Adding oxygen accelerant causes the PJF to very quickly overheat, even with cooling fins, and explode at 1000C in exchange for greatly increased HSLA production speed (and possibly a chance of ingot doubling per operation?).

 

[Cellular]

The oxygen does make a difference in the heat, at least it used to and I can't imagine why that would change. In my experience with the machine, adding oxygen accelerant to the PJF caused its temperature to increase faster than even multiple cooling fins could dissipate, even with fans attached, which only slowed the temperature gain marginally. I don't recall oxygen increasing the temperature significantly while water was also being used; it still wouldn't smelt HSLA, which meant finding a way of running the machine dry if I wanted it to make steel, regardless of whether or not I was adding accelerants. If it does, what temperature does it stabilize at and are you getting the full speed benefit from the oxygen? The reason I ask is because the PJF devours oxygen tanks, certainly much faster than I was producing it.

I was also certain that oxygen acted an HSLA multiplier. /shrug

I don't see anything in the change logs that would indicate that any of this was changed in the past year.

Here's the solution I came up with last year:

The cooling fins and fans are optional but extend the duration of each duty cycle and cool the PJF a little faster while it's shut down. It's completely automated and completely safe --- er, that is barring using it on a live server that is experiencing a lot of bad TPS spikes (oops!) ... I actually still need to make some adjustments to this arrangement, lol

[Edit] Digging this up has jogged my memory somewhat, I think. Let me see if I've got this right:

Adding water as coolant to the PJF stabilizes the the operating temperature close to but less than 900C. Since smelting raw iron into HSLA steel requires temperatures above 900C, the PJF must be operated without water. Cooling fins can stabilize the temperature above 900C, iirc, somewhere in the range of 950C(?). Adding oxygen accelerant causes the PJF to very quickly overheat, even with cooling fins, and explode at 1000C in exchange for greatly increased HSLA production speed (and possibly a chance of ingot doubling per operation?).

The oxygen does make a difference in the heat, at least it used to and I can't imagine why that would change. In my experience with the machine, adding oxygen accelerant to the PJF caused its temperature to increase faster than even multiple cooling fins could dissipate, even with fans attached, which only slowed the temperature gain marginally. I don't recall oxygen increasing the temperature significantly while water was also being used; it still wouldn't smelt HSLA, which meant finding a way of running the machine dry if I wanted it to make steel, regardless of whether or not I was adding accelerants. If it does, what temperature does it stabilize at and are you getting the full speed benefit from the oxygen? The reason I ask is because the PJF devours oxygen tanks, certainly much faster than I was producing it.

I was also certain that oxygen acted an HSLA multiplier. /shrug

I don't see anything in the change logs that would indicate that any of this was changed in the past year.

Here's the solution I came up with last year:

The cooling fins and fans are optional but extend the duration of each duty cycle and cool the PJF a little faster while it's shut down. It's completely automated and completely safe --- er, that is barring using it on a live server that is experiencing a lot of bad TPS spikes (oops!) ... I actually still need to make some adjustments to this arrangement, lol

[Edit] Digging this up has jogged my memory somewhat, I think. Let me see if I've got this right:

Adding water as coolant to the PJF stabilizes the the operating temperature close to but less than 900C. Since smelting raw iron into HSLA steel requires temperatures above 900C, the PJF must be operated without water. Cooling fins can stabilize the temperature above 900C, iirc, somewhere in the range of 950C(?). Adding oxygen accelerant causes the PJF to very quickly overheat, even with cooling fins, and explode at 1000C in exchange for greatly increased HSLA production speed (and possibly a chance of ingot doubling per operation?).

The oxygen does make a difference in the heat, at least it used to and I can't imagine why that would change. In my experience with the machine, adding oxygen accelerant to the PJF caused its temperature to increase faster than even multiple cooling fins could dissipate, even with fans attached, which only slowed the temperature gain marginally. I don't recall oxygen increasing the temperature significantly while water was also being used; it still wouldn't smelt HSLA, which meant finding a way of running the machine dry if I wanted it to make steel, regardless of whether or not I was adding accelerants. If it does, what temperature does it stabilize at and are you getting the full speed benefit from the oxygen? The reason I ask is because the PJF devours oxygen tanks, certainly much faster than I was producing it.

I was also certain that oxygen acted an HSLA multiplier. /shrug

I don't see anything in the change logs that would indicate that any of this was changed in the past year.

Here's the solution I came up with last year:

The cooling fins and fans are optional but extend the duration of each duty cycle and cool the PJF a little faster while it's shut down. It's completely automated and completely safe --- er, that is barring using it on a live server that is experiencing a lot of bad TPS spikes (oops!) ... I actually still need to make some adjustments to this arrangement, lol

[Edit] Digging this up has jogged my memory somewhat, I think. Let me see if I've got this right:

Adding water as coolant to the PJF stabilizes the the operating temperature close to but less than 900C. Since smelting raw iron into HSLA steel requires temperatures above 900C, the PJF must be operated without water. Cooling fins can stabilize the temperature above 900C, iirc, somewhere in the range of 950C(?). Adding oxygen accelerant causes the PJF to very quickly overheat, even with cooling fins, and explode at 1000C in exchange for greatly increased HSLA production speed (and possibly a chance of ingot doubling per operation?).

No idea how you've gotten these results. I use water and the furnace stays over 905 and under 920, with this temperature range I can use all of the PJF's functions. When I add oxygen, it increases the speed by quite a bit, even with water added. However there is no double output. When I run the furnace just barely stable enough by using cooling fins instead of water (with oxygen added) I get a speed increase but still no doubling. I am using the latest version.

[EDIT]

No idea why it put three of your quotes in btw, I clicked reply to the thing and it threw all of em in XD.

 

[Cellular]

Also, on a side note, I would like to thank Reika for adding the fuel powered engine so long ago. It gives me a real reason to burn fuel...
TE's dynamo's have the same rf per tick no matter what kind of fuel you put in. But if I use one of those engines, run an IC2 electric generator on it and then convert it to rf, I get 5000 rft/t (or around that). And yes ik I can augment the dynamos, but you don't get anywhere near the efficiency of the fuel powered engine without building multiple dynamos all with 3 efficiency augments and a x2 power augment. This is because you end up burning 2x the fuel for the double power output, whereas the fuel powered engine outputs like 90x the power without having to burn twice the fuel. This is why all three efficiency need to be used in order to get twice the power for 1 unit of fuel. And it isn't even double for 1 unit as you only get 85% to start with and lose 11% to that double power augment, giving you 74% efficiency boost. Which lands you at a very rough estimate of 1.5x power per 1 unit of fuel. And before you tell me.. "fuel burns longer than other fuels, so it's not pointless." Yea? How about I just set up a huge lava pumping station in the nether and run 20 magmatic dynamos on full energy augment. Fuel burn time doesn't matter if you have an infinite source like lava. Some people on a server told me I'd run out...
I never have, 10 pumps in a huge lake with a world anchor

 

[Braidedheadman]

1.) What biome and what Y-level are you setting up in? Perhaps the ambient temperature is interacting with your PJF to help bump it over the 900C threshold needed to process iron >> HSLA steel where the biome I was set up in did not.
2.) What is your maximum operating temperature? Oxygen provides the most benefit as an accelerant while the PJF is running (dangerously) hot and including water as a coolant will inhibit that without some form of regulation; as I mentioned before, it completely stalled my HSLA production. This gives me an idea, however...
3.) I confess, I could be wrong about the ingot doubling, it's been quite a while. Besides, I was processing thousands of units at a time at that point and I wasn't really checking the results after they wound up in my ME network beyond, "Yay! This works without blowing up my base!" XD. I might have had my PFJ producing HSLA ingots faster than my conduits were able to extract them (faster than a 1:1 ratio), giving the illusion of doubling.

 

[Cellular]

1.) What biome and what Y-level are you setting up in? Perhaps the ambient temperature is interacting with your PJF to help bump it over the 900C threshold needed to process iron >> HSLA steel where the biome I was set up in did not.
2.) What is your maximum operating temperature? Oxygen provides the most benefit as an accelerant while the PJF is running (dangerously) hot and including water as a coolant will inhibit that without some form of regulation; as I mentioned before, it completely stalled my HSLA production. This gives me an idea, however...
3.) I confess, I could be wrong about the ingot doubling, it's been quite a while. Besides, I was processing thousands of units at a time at that point and I wasn't really checking the results after they wound up in my ME network beyond, "Yay! This works without blowing up my base!" XD. I might have had my PFJ producing HSLA ingots faster than my conduits were able to extract them (faster than a 1:1 ratio), giving the illusion of doubling.

I mentioned my maximum was 915-920 as it fluctuates, I'm also in a desert at y level 60. I tried it on a plains and got the same result. Have not checked it with any biomes with snow.

 

[Cellular]

Reika, please make an engine that can burn natural gas from gascraft.

 

[Pyure]

Reika, please make an engine that can burn natural gas from gascraft.

I'm curious, what would this add to rotarycraft?

I suspect the best cross-mod addition you'd get would be a mechanism to "import" the natural gas so that it could fuel the existing turbines.

 

[Cellular]

I'm curious, what would this add to rotarycraft?

I suspect the best cross-mod addition you'd get would be a mechanism to "import" the natural gas so that it could fuel the existing turbines.

A different gas turbine maybe, the kind he has in is an actual jet engine so I wouldn't imagine it could burn much else. BUT, in the real world most propane or LPG generators use piston stroke power production. In fact, my family has one. Something like this added to the game would make more sense than making a second gas turbine.

 

[Pyure]

A different gas turbine maybe, the kind he has in is an actual jet engine so I wouldn't imagine it could burn much else. BUT, in the real world most propane or LPG generators use piston stroke power production. In fact, my family has one. Something like this added to the game would make more sense than making a second gas turbine.

What I'm actually looking for is what it adds to the game from a gameplay perspective. There's tons of things you can add to the game that "make sense", but don't contribute actual gameplay value.

What Reika won't do is add another fuel-in-power-out generator that is a duplicate of an existing turbine but with another name and fluid input. Its also tricky to justify another generator given that the existing ones are essentially cleanly tiered such that you can progress up the line from one to the next.

My chemistry is weak: can natural gas be broken into components that would function in a gas turbine? I strongly suspect the best you can hope for is an argument for cross-mod compatibility. That's what it would add to RotaryCraft. And there's a precedent for it: if you can describe how your GasCraft fluid would translate into Gas Turbine fuel sensibly and in a balanced fashion, you're more likely to get a positive response.

Likewise, cost-benefit analysis: asking for a machine that does nothing new has high cost, low benefit. Asking for a recipe that translates your fluid into a fuel for an existing machine has lot cost and whatever benefit you can argue for (I'm not familiar with GasCraft and have no idea how popular it is or whether its players are likely to also be RotaryCraft players)