Better With Forge?
- Thread starter Mason11987
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Look, SpaceGuyR! It's a signature! From your signature, you believe the Forge crew are responsible for this. They are not. It was always inevitable. Most mods in this community run on Forge. Better than Wolves does not. People wanted Better than Wolves with Forge. Some anonymous person provided it. That is all. Forge isn't bullying FlowerChild, heck, Forge is open source! Anyone who has a good idea can be part of Forge. So, "Forge bullies FC"? Wrong.
Is it right to do this? Personally, yes. I think it was totally within FlowerAdult's rights to rewrite BTW. Is using BTW's textures and models the way it does a bit cheaty? Sure, but I'm sure that eventually, they'll get their own, and BTW's are placeholders for that. Heck, I'm a texture pack author, they could get me to do it!
As for the "deliberately provoking FC" part, come on. You know, (or maybe you don't? If you're an adoring FlowerChild fanatic, you've only gotten one side of the equation, and we both know equations can't be balanced with only one side) I know, everyone in this community knows, FlowerChild has always been provocative, hateful, spiteful, and overall the kind of person generally frowned upon in most communities. What goes around comes around, and it's time to see if he can take what he dishes out.
That being said, in any other community we would not be having this fight. We wouldn't have had the Technic permissions fight, and there would be less infighting and hostility in general. In any other community, modding is a privilege, not a right. It's something by the players, to the players, for the players. And that is something the Minecraft community, sadly, is sorely missing. Until the community has that, anything else is superfluous.
Is it right to do this? Personally, yes. I think it was totally within FlowerAdult's rights to rewrite BTW. Is using BTW's textures and models the way it does a bit cheaty? Sure, but I'm sure that eventually, they'll get their own, and BTW's are placeholders for that. Heck, I'm a texture pack author, they could get me to do it!
As for the "deliberately provoking FC" part, come on. You know, (or maybe you don't? If you're an adoring FlowerChild fanatic, you've only gotten one side of the equation, and we both know equations can't be balanced with only one side) I know, everyone in this community knows, FlowerChild has always been provocative, hateful, spiteful, and overall the kind of person generally frowned upon in most communities. What goes around comes around, and it's time to see if he can take what he dishes out.
That being said, in any other community we would not be having this fight. We wouldn't have had the Technic permissions fight, and there would be less infighting and hostility in general. In any other community, modding is a privilege, not a right. It's something by the players, to the players, for the players. And that is something the Minecraft community, sadly, is sorely missing. Until the community has that, anything else is superfluous.
I will reiterate. Keep it civil. No name calling no derogatory comments. I realize tensions are high on this topic however, that is no call for getting antagonistic and using aggressive language on either side. I would prefer not to have to start deleting posts for rule violations when valid points have been made on both sides.
I was not aware that BWF was using textures from BTW. I don't consider that appropriate since it was FC (or his team) that made those textures (AFAIK) and no one should take what someone else made and distribute it publicly without permission (hence why I stated it was acceptable if both the code and sprites were re-made and not copied).
As far as I can tell, it's someone creating a forge mod that exactly duplicates everything that BTW added, and requires BTW to already be downloaded for the textures.
If it succeeds, the fact that people can exactly duplicate all of the items, gameplay balance decisions, recipes, and design of a mod and get community support for it would set/reinforce a worrying precedent. Perhaps it's just porting a Forge-incompatible mod to Forge this time, but maybe later someone will copy a mod because they didn't like one major change made in a recent version, but like all of the other new additions, and they can rationalize it somewhat by pointing back to this.
The idea of a windmill or an electicity-like power system can't be claimed exclusively by one particular mod, but what about the recipes to craft them (including all sub-components, sub-sub-components, etc.)? Or the careful balance reached after months of gameplay testing that an output rate of 4.35 units of energy fits the mod's balance better than 4.5? At some point it becomes taking someone's design that they may have spent over a year improving, then implementing it with absolutely no idea of why it is that particular way, and then sharing the implementation as if it was entirely your own work.
I would rather not work on any of the mod ideas I have in a world where someone can take all of the effort I put into refining those ideas, and then do whatever they want with them with no care for all of the time and effort I had put into them...
If it succeeds, the fact that people can exactly duplicate all of the items, gameplay balance decisions, recipes, and design of a mod and get community support for it would set/reinforce a worrying precedent. Perhaps it's just porting a Forge-incompatible mod to Forge this time, but maybe later someone will copy a mod because they didn't like one major change made in a recent version, but like all of the other new additions, and they can rationalize it somewhat by pointing back to this.
The idea of a windmill or an electicity-like power system can't be claimed exclusively by one particular mod, but what about the recipes to craft them (including all sub-components, sub-sub-components, etc.)? Or the careful balance reached after months of gameplay testing that an output rate of 4.35 units of energy fits the mod's balance better than 4.5? At some point it becomes taking someone's design that they may have spent over a year improving, then implementing it with absolutely no idea of why it is that particular way, and then sharing the implementation as if it was entirely your own work.
I would rather not work on any of the mod ideas I have in a world where someone can take all of the effort I put into refining those ideas, and then do whatever they want with them with no care for all of the time and effort I had put into them...
I think this isn't fair to flowerchild. would albalka like it if someone rewrote ic2 for modloader etc.? I doubt it. Honestly anyonehere should have the ability to stick up for flowerchild this time, even if u don't like him. he works hard on his mod and deserves to have the choice to leave an api and keep it away form that. The flame from the creator of BWF isnt any better, do u think its ok to steal a mod even if its a rewrite nad legal, its still wrong also flowerchild could always add antiBWF code. Just my thoughts, but honestly i support FlowerChild in this situation.
I find both sides to have good points so im not going to enter a discussion about who's right and who's not.
I have however seen streams where a member of the FTB crew have shown oppinions which FTB crew earlier have held as reasoning for why tekkit is/was bad.
Oppinions that conflict with what i were lead to believe were the core values of the FTB launcher.
And it scares me seeing this as i find this to be a step towards FTB becoming as little developer friendly as tekkit is.
I have however seen streams where a member of the FTB crew have shown oppinions which FTB crew earlier have held as reasoning for why tekkit is/was bad.
Oppinions that conflict with what i were lead to believe were the core values of the FTB launcher.
And it scares me seeing this as i find this to be a step towards FTB becoming as little developer friendly as tekkit is.
What "drug culture references" are you referring to? I've been playing BTW for more then a year now and there's nothing drug related in it at all. Unless you're suggesting the use of hemp plant for fibers (cause that's how they were used) is "drug culture". I mean, a few forge mods let you get wasted by drinking. That seems far more controversial to me then the use of a hemp plant to make rope.
The forge folks were openly talking about and praising BWF in a 7 hour stream. Lexmanos said:
LexManos: And we feel that we want to play your mod
LexManos: Weither you like it or not
That's not bullying?
BTW is a pretty awesome mod. The fact that it is incompatible with everything is kind of a disappointment. BTF, is trying to take away that disappointment of incompatibility. Are they ripping it off? Depends on what side you stand on. If you've been with FC for a long time, it is a ripoff. If you're an FTB player, not so much. If you want to put it in comparison with something, it's like Apple and Microsoft. Unlike Apple And Microsoft, they're not willing to work together to achieve a common goal, a better community for people to enjoy. Two different sides of the same coin.Is it a good thing they are making it forge compatible? I'd think so. I run my Minecraft with Optifine and BTW makes Optifine incompatible. Therefore, I can only get about 25 FPS with the lowest setting possible. And I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem. So I'm sure people like me are looking forward to BTF. There's my opinion. Have fun with it.
Edit:To be honest, I just don't want to see to great communities tear each other apart.
Edit:To be honest, I just don't want to see to great communities tear each other apart.
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